Pre-Game Talk: The All Purpose Off Day Thread | Drama Llama

[ColePens]

I will say the one area where Flower is really missed is OT/SO. Going to OT/SO use to be almost a guaranteed two points.

Oh totally. I always hated when people were like "THANK GOD HE'S GONE!" I never like to live that way. It was always going to be a part we missed but that is salary cap hockey. Same goes for guys like Sheary. He could pot a goal randomly deep in the lineup and that was crucial. Same goes for Ian Cole. Same goes for Bones.

I don't want to get into players, but here is what i'd do as JR:

1) Focus on defense. Get rid of Maatta and Oleksiak. We are stuck with JJ. The dmen you grab, make sure they have a front facing shot block style because I think that really helped our defense so much. It also helped our transition offense. Cole is a guy to emulate. Hammer is actually a guy to emulate as well.

2) Bring back youth/speed/skill on the bottom 6. Only one ZAR type can play but that guy has to be able to do dirty work like block shots or do something we need.


Those are the first two plans I go with. I feel they are both actually do-able.

 

[Peat]

Yep...we need to keep our first rounders and draft those kind of players..we need to sign them when they come up for FA if they do...and we need to do our best developing whatever offensive talent we have to the best of their potential...

Kapanen is a lesser talent, but to get Phil’s talent we had to trade him...today, with Sully, do you think he’d want to draft and trade for those kind of players? Because I don’t think so...I don’t see Phil happening if Sully was here...I don’t think we’re going to have any homegrown offensive skill players on this team for a long time....Sid and G aren’t going to carry this team for much longer (and maybe not even this year) and we pretty soon won’t have sufficient skill on this team ...

We just drafted probably the closest thing to Sheary there was in the entire draft and Drozg the year before is a fairly high skill guy. Either Sully has an interest in such things or they don't particularly care what he thinks when they draft.

And we haven't really had to trade for a guy like that since Kessel until this summer, when Rutherford very publicly sniffed around every option. Again, either Sully has an interest in such things or Rutherford doesn't particularly care what he thinks.

You're exaggerating the situation here. The team has clearly shown an interest in acquiring high offence players.

And, honestly, if you want to point this at Sully, explain to me why he's given everything to 3 of the 4 offensive skill players if he's got no use for it.

Sully has a lot of input...look at who’s been moved out ....we don’t know if we tried to get Skinner, we assume so....Domi isn’t quite as skilled an offensive player...do we know if we tried for Patches? He’s too old...tier two...we have to draft those players or trade a top player for them...

Skinner was incredibly heavily rumoured from multiple different sources. If we don't know we tried to get him, then we don't know that we tried to get anyone other than successful trades... but I'd just treat it as we tried to get him. They inquired about Patches (allegedly) but decided the price was was too high - given what he went for, inclined to agree.

And Domi mightn't be as skilled, but he's still one of the more skillful wingers who's moved recently. If he's not skilled enough for you, that only reinforces my point about it not being all that realistic getting these guys.

 

[SEALBound]

Sully has a lot of input...look at who’s been moved out ....we don’t know if we tried to get Skinner, we assume so....Domi isn’t quite as skilled an offensive player...do we know if we tried for Patches? He’s too old...tier two...we have to draft those players or trade a top player for them...

I thought I remember Skinner refusing to waive his NTC for Pittsburgh?

 

[SouthGeorge]

Oh totally. I always hated when people were like "THANK GOD HE'S GONE!" I never like to live that way. It was always going to be a part we missed but that is salary cap hockey. Same goes for guys like Sheary. He could pot a goal randomly deep in the lineup and that was crucial. Same goes for Ian Cole. Same goes for Bones.

I don't want to get into players, but here is what i'd do as JR:

1) Focus on defense. Get rid of Maatta and Oleksiak. We are stuck with JJ. The dmen you grab, make sure they have a front facing shot block style because I think that really helped our defense so much. It also helped our transition offense. Cole is a guy to emulate. Hammer is actually a guy to emulate as well.

2) Bring back youth/speed/skill on the bottom 6. Only one ZAR type can play but that guy has to be able to do dirty work like block shots or do something we need.


Those are the first two plans I go with. I feel they are both actually do-able.

I like all of this except getting rid of Oleksiak. Maatta is definitely an issue. If you get Oleksiak with like a Schultz/Daley d-man I think he could be really serviceable.

 

[Ogrezilla]

We just drafted probably the closest thing to Sheary there was in the entire draft and Drozg the year before is a fairly high skill guy. Either Sully has an interest in such things or they don't particularly care what he thinks when they draft.

And we haven't really had to trade for a guy like that since Kessel until this summer, when Rutherford very publicly sniffed around every option. Again, either Sully has an interest in such things or Rutherford doesn't particularly care what he thinks.

You're exaggerating the situation here. The team has clearly shown an interest in acquiring high offence players.

And, honestly, if you want to point this at Sully, explain to me why he's given everything to 3 of the 4 offensive skill players if he's got no use for it.

yep, the idea that Sully doesn't like young or offense-first players is simply wrong. You just can't look at how he's used Jake, Sheary, and Simon and come to that conclusion.

 

[Peat]

Those are the first two plans I go with. I feel they are both actually do-able.

2 is but I seriously question whether anyone's going to let go of the pieces we'd want for the defence.

 

[Gurglesons]

Honestly, at this point we likely don’t make the playoffs.

We should hold onto our 1st and hope it is top ten which would be huge and move Brassard for a 1st in the middle of the draft.

That’s the best way you retool.

 

[Pancakes]

yep, the idea that Sully doesn't like young or offense-first players is simply wrong. You just can't look at how he's used Jake, Sheary, and Simon and come to that conclusion.

I honestly think the reason he dislikes Sprong is he doesn't trust him defensively.

Not that Simon or Sheary excel there either, but I think Sully has the perception (rightly or wrongly) that those players aren't liabilities in our zone, whereas he thinks Sprong is.

 

[Pancakes]

Honestly, at this point we likely don’t make the playoffs.

We should hold onto our 1st and hope it is top ten which would be huge and move Brassard for a 1st in the middle of the draft.

I mean if we win our two games in hand on the Rangers we're all of one point out of the playoffs. Our situation is not good but the teams ahead of us are bad.

That said, I do want to hold onto the first unless we majorly turn things around and go on a 15 game win streak or something insane like that. It will be interesting to see what happens at the TDL though. Even if we continue to struggle I doubt we'll ever dig such a hole that we're well out. I just don't see JR giving up on the season unless we somehow put together another 1-10 stretch.

 

[Gurglesons]

I honestly think the reason he dislikes Sprong is he doesn't trust him defensively.

Not that Simon or Sheary excel there either, but I think Sully has the perception (rightly or wrongly) that those players aren't liabilities in our zone, whereas he thinks Sprong is.

I guarantee if you heard how Sully talked to Sprong 85% of it would be about his play in the o-zone.

 

[vodeni]

Honestly, at this point we likely don’t make the playoffs.

We should hold onto our 1st and hope it is top ten which would be huge and move Brassard for a 1st in the middle of the draft.

That’s the best way you retool.

this is what drives me nuts: Geno Sid letang are playing the best hockey and you would give up on a season, this is still very much salvagable season if the coach is wilkling to abandon the definition of insanity as his driving force. GMJR is very well aware of all the blunders he made and he can still make changes along the way....Do not waste a great year of Geno and Sid

 

[ronduguayshair]

Lol wait what?

I’m not sure what you are referring to.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

Honestly, at this point we likely don’t make the playoffs.

We should hold onto our 1st and hope it is top ten which would be huge and move Brassard for a 1st in the middle of the draft.

That’s the best way you retool.

Agreed.

Brassard *should* have fantastic value at the deadline as a UFA.

 

[Andy99]

yep, the idea that Sully doesn't like young or offense-first players is simply wrong. You just can't look at how he's used Jake, Sheary, and Simon and come to that conclusion.

I hope you’re right...I just hear his comments about where the game is going, and I see the results of who gets playing time here, and I probably overreact, but I don’t like it...

 

[Ogrezilla]

Honestly, at this point we likely don’t make the playoffs.

We should hold onto our 1st and hope it is top ten which would be huge and move Brassard for a 1st in the middle of the draft.

That’s the best way you retool.

I mean, if nothing changes probably. But it's not like we're all that far behind a playoff spot.

 

[vodeni]

Is Garret Wilson really that good, better than any other wingers at the farm?

 

[Slaaapshuter]

I mean, if nothing changes probably. But it's not like we're all that far behind a playoff spot.

I'm a bit torn. When you have Crosby, Malkin, Kessel and this year's Letang just limping in the playoffs might be enough, because once in there anything can happen. On the other hand looking at how the team plays I'm thinking limping in to the playoff and accomplish what?

I hope to see some playoff hockey, and going with anything can happen angle.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I’m not sure what you are referring to.

" but we do know that at one point Sprong had to take Uber’s to practice because he was so aloof..."

That.

cc @pixiesfanyo

 

[ColePens]

2 is but I seriously question whether anyone's going to let go of the pieces we'd want for the defence.

The reality is you open up 6m in space. I'm not saying we grab the dman THIS YEAR. But how much worse can it get? So if we can get rid of those 2 and maybe bring in a young mid range prospect and a bottom 6 speed guy... we would be fine. Let Riikola continue to develop and keep changing it up.

 

[ColePens]

" but we do know that at one point Sprong had to take Uber’s to practice because he was so aloof..."

That.

cc @pixiesfanyo

I have no f***ing clue what that is but if I had to drive in this city, i'd uber around too. Jesus is it tough.

 

[Peat]

I hope you’re right...I just hear his comments about where the game is going, and I see the results of who gets playing time here, and I probably overreact, but I don’t like it...

Our 6 most used forwards at ES (going by average time) are Sid, Guentzel, Geno, Phil, Pearson and Brassard. What are you looking for that isn't there in terms of giving playing time to skilled offensive players?

If its about Sprong, then I think we have to accept that Sprong is an exception. If its about ZAR... Sully having a strange fondness for guys who aren't that tough, skilled or fast doesn't meant that he doesn't like the real deal as well. I dunno. Simon? A kinda worthy point, but the amount of top 6 time he's got vs what he's produced in the bottom 6 is really good to begin with.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, if nothing changes probably. But it's not like we're all that far behind a playoff spot.

5 points out at this point in time is basically a 30% chance to make it.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Our 6 most used forwards at ES (going by average time) are Sid, Guentzel, Geno, Phil, Pearson and Brassard. What are you looking for that isn't there in terms of giving playing time to skilled offensive players?

If its about Sprong, then I think we have to accept that Sprong is an exception. If its about ZAR... Sully having a strange fondness for guys who aren't that tough, skilled or fast doesn't meant that he doesn't like the real deal as well. I dunno. Simon? A kinda worthy point, but the amount of top 6 time he's got vs what he's produced in the bottom 6 is really good to begin with.

I don't think Sully has a dislike of skilled guys if they've already established they can play in this league and have a track record, but I do think he gives less rope to unproven youngsters/rookies who are the skilled archetype over the grinder/plugger youngsters/rookies.

And before a guy like Guentzel is brought up, I think his style of play (with his grit and willingness to get his nose dirty) is what gave him the extra rope. Not saying players shouldn't try to play more gritty, but I do think the guys who are offensive minded but lack that grit element don't get as much rope. It's not just Sprong, either. After Sprong, Simon's the next guy who gets his ice time reduced the second Sully goes with "safe".

 

[Peat]

The reality is you open up 6m in space. I'm not saying we grab the dman THIS YEAR. But how much worse can it get? So if we can get rid of those 2 and maybe bring in a young mid range prospect and a bottom 6 speed guy... we would be fine. Let Riikola continue to develop and keep changing it up.

How much worse can it get if we jettison two of the four fit dmen who are in both the positive GF% and actually produce some points themselves for nothing? That sounds like it could get a whole lot worse. I appreciate neither are ideal system fits right now but they're contributing. I'd love to upgrade them but moving them on for mystery boxes in season? I'm not sold.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hahahaha... Wilson. Of course. Why even act surprised?

"Coalminer's Guide To The Penguins" by Craig Adams

My favorite is probably "Young Sullivan Plays It Safe" though "So Long And Thanks For All The Cups" is really good, too.