The All Purpose 2016-17 Flyers Goaltending thread

[Striiker]

Yeah.. if Mason wants 2-3 years at a reasonable cap hit then welcome back...

If he wants 4-5... bye bye.

 

[Tripod]

Yeah.. if Mason wants 2-3 years at a reasonable cap hit then welcome back...

If he wants 4-5... bye bye.

Agreed.

Last 3 years, Mason was the 17th, 24th and 25th highest paid goalie.
Last 3 years, Mason was the 3rd, 13th and 23rd in SV% for starters playing 42 games.

So if you look at cap hit vs performance, he has outperformed his cap hit. But something of note is how the trend has gone down. And if you lock him up for 2-3 and it continues, it could look bad.

But in saying that, every other goalie out there available has their warts too. But with Fleury and Halak added to the mix, there are not a ton of "starters" rolls available to these guys. If Halak and Fleury land elsewhere, a few guys are going to be left out and having to settle for backup money. It could happen to Mason.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't think the Flyers felt they had time for Bob to develop, what with the age of Kimmo, Pronger, and Briere. They'd already seen Betts crumble and Lappy lost to attrition. They wanted a goalie right away

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Mason is not getting a long term deal from anyone. I think he and his agent know that based on the year he had.

I just think he is/was hoping that the Flyers believed that his 3+ years of good play our weighed the 4 months of poor play.

And fwiw, I view 3 years as the max I give any goalie unless it is a true franchise guy unless you get him on a great deal. Bishop for 3 years is doable, but at what cost?

Last 3 years, Bishop .919SV% vs Mason .918SV%. And Bishop played behind Hedman. Reality is, the last 3 years Mason is tied for 11th in SV% for starters playing 120 games....so 40 a year. All while being paid approx as the 25th highest paid goalie. We got very good value from Mason, this year aside of course.

it would be asinine for Mason's camp to be looking for a long term contract. But if his agent is giving him the idea that that kind of money will be out there then he could walk into free agency.
The guy has played more than 60 games twice in 10 seasons and has never won a playoff series. not saying that is all on him, but those are the things that work against him in contract negotiations.

 

[Striiker]

And this isn't even considering that he might want to go to FA, no matter what the offer from Hextall is.

He seemed whiny about not being signed yet, even though it's obvious why, if you consider the entry draft. He can't reasonably expect a team to risk losing a very solid prospect just so he can be signed a few months early.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I don't think the Flyers felt they had time for Bob to develop, what with the age of Kimmo, Pronger, and Briere. They'd already seen Betts crumble and Lappy lost to attrition. They wanted a goalie right away

yeah. I dont buy this idea that Bobrovsky didnt want the competition from Bryz. Everyone knew who the better goalie was, but the Flyers didnt want to wait around for Bob become that Vezina caliber guy. they wanted their well known vet who would help them win. Bob knew still no matter how well he played the goalie making 6 million dollars(or whatever it was) was not going to sit on the bench. Bob was in a no win situation.

 

[Tripod]

it would be asinine for Mason's camp to be looking for a long term contract. But if his agent is giving him the idea that that kind of money will be out there then he could walk into free agency.
The guy has played more than 60 games twice in 10 seasons and has never won a playoff series. not saying that is all on him, but those are the things that work against him in contract negotiations.

I just can't see an agent telling him he will get a long term deal at say 4.5-5 million(slight raise) after having a bad year.

Of course in saying that, people expect Bishop to get it and yet the last 3 years, their SV% are almost identical.

Personally, I think Bishop maybe gets 4 years and no other goalie UFA will get more than 2.

 

[Tripod]

And this isn't even considering that he might want to go to FA, no matter what the offer from Hextall is.

He seemed whiny about not being signed yet, even though it's obvious why, if you consider the entry draft. He can't reasonably expect a team to risk losing a very solid prospect just so he can be signed a few months early.

But he also might think, "who cares about a prospect when you can have me as a number one goalie who has given you 3+ great years, and 4 bad months."

Remember, he doesn't want anyone to take his job so I doubt he cares. Of course Hextall would think different, but teams top goalies would think this way.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I just can't see an agent telling him he will get a long term deal at say 4.5-5 million(slight raise) after having a bad year.

Of course in saying that, people expect Bishop to get it and yet the last 3 years, their SV% are almost identical.

Personally, I think Bishop maybe gets 4 years and no other goalie UFA will get more than 2.

nothing shocks me anymore when it comes to free agency. so no it would not shock me if some team gave out a 5 year or more deal to any one of Mason, Bishop or Elliot.
Before the playoffs started I really thought Elliot may go back there, but after he played so poorly he the Flames may have second thoughts.
If the Flyers decide to fall back on Bernier, fine. But I am not sure if i trust a tandem of Bernier and Nuevy to make it the whole season.

 

[Striiker]

But he also might think, "who cares about a prospect when you can have me as a number one goalie who has given you 3+ great years, and 4 bad months."

Remember, he doesn't want anyone to take his job so I doubt he cares. Of course Hextall would think different, but teams top goalies would think this way.

Well yeah, I'm sure he doesn't give a damn about the teams future after he's gone.

But too bad, suck it up. Hextalls job is to worry about the organizations future, not just Mason. So if Mason isn't able to understand why things are the way they are then he can **** off to another team.

 

[Tripod]

Well yeah, I'm sure he doesn't give a damn about the teams future after he's gone.

But too bad, suck it up. Hextalls job is to worry about the organizations future, not just Mason. So if Mason isn't able to understand why things are the way they are then he can **** off to another team.

It just sucks that we are likely going to sign a worse goalie for the next few years in hopes that Stolie or Lyon can become as good as Mason someday.

I just hope the upcoming changes in D personel help to offset it and gives us a more stable defensive game overall. The last few years, we just bled way too many great scoring chances against. We saw with Mason and Neuvirth that if they stand in their head, we can withstand it. But if they don't, we lose.

Cutting down on shots from the slot, breakaways, 2-1's etc...will help whoever is here next year.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

It just sucks that we are likely going to sign a worse goalie for the next few years in hopes that Stolie or Lyon can become as good as Mason someday.

I just hope the upcoming changes in D personel help to offset it and gives us a more stable defensive game overall. The last few years, we just bled way too many great scoring chances against. We saw with Mason and Neuvirth that if they stand in their head, we can withstand it. But if they don't, we lose.

Cutting down on shots from the slot, breakaways, 2-1's etc...will help whoever is here next year.

i would ok with a guy like Bernier. He seems like a guy who would come in over a short term deal. I am not convinced Mason signs a 3 year or less deal.
Just remember it may not be better next year if they do go younger on the blueline. there is still going to be a learning on the go curve for some of the kids we all want to play with this team next year going forward.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

It just sucks that we are likely going to sign a worse goalie for the next few years in hopes that Stolie or Lyon can become as good as Mason someday.

This is why I think the goaltending situation is so hard to get a read on. If we push back Stolie and Lyon's place on the team another year, then the year after they get part-time/backup starts, that following year Lyon will be like 27 I think and Stolie a year or so younger. It just feels like stringing them out a long time. And it's not like I can think of anything better to do with them - I just can't picture what we should do for the next 2-3 seasons before Hart/Felix are ready. What does the organization see Stolie/Lyon's future being? How does Madsen fit in? I'm sure they don't know for sure either, but it would be interesting to be a fly on the wall when they are talking about it.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

at any rate. I think we all can agree this is certainly not going to be a easy summer for Hextall regarding the goaltending position. I dont envy him at all.

 

[Tripod]

That's why if they believe Mason is the good goalie of the 3+ years, and not the bad goalie of 4 months, signing him to a 3year deal is perfect IMO.

As I said before, it allows enough time to see if either Stolie or Lyon become good enough to take over. And at worse, Sandstrom could even be ready if they are not.

Of course you have to believe that Mason will rebound to do that deal...or sign Bishop if you can for the 3 years.

If we sign anyone else for 1-2 years, we will be in goalie limbo for awhile IMO.

 

[Striiker]

It just sucks that we are likely going to sign a worse goalie for the next few years in hopes that Stolie or Lyon can become as good as Mason someday.

I just hope the upcoming changes in D personel help to offset it and gives us a more stable defensive game overall. The last few years, we just bled way too many great scoring chances against. We saw with Mason and Neuvirth that if they stand in their head, we can withstand it. But if they don't, we lose.

Cutting down on shots from the slot, breakaways, 2-1's etc...will help whoever is here next year.

Seems like Stolarz and Lyon have the next two or so years to either make it or not, because past that Hart and Sandstrom will be breathing down their necks. And I like the latter two's potential more than the former two. Then there's also Madsen who could potentially earn a contract.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

at any rate. I think we all can agree this is certainly not going to be a easy summer for Hextall regarding the goaltending position. I dont envy him at all.

Honestly, I think Bernier is a fairly easy decision to make. The part of the fanbase which generally understands things will understand it, and the Facebook crowd are going to complain stupidly about anything he does. I do think this points out the issues we all had when Hacksaw refused to play Stolie more when he had the chance to do so - we could have gotten a much better read on where he is if he had played more, and I bet he would have played better down the stretch in LV if he didn't have to return there so stale. I think Neuvy is tradeable after the ED, if Hexy wants to do that, and I'm not sure he does. In fact, I doubt he does.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Honestly, I think Bernier is a fairly easy decision to make. The part of the fanbase which generally understands things will understand it, and the Facebook crowd are going to complain stupidly about anything he does. I do think this points out the issues we all had when Hacksaw refused to play Stolie more when he had the chance to do so - we could have gotten a much better read on where he is if he had played more, and I bet he would have played better down the stretch in LV if he didn't have to return there so stale. I think Neuvy is tradeable after the ED, if Hexy wants to do that, and I'm not sure he does. In fact, I doubt he does.

my wife will love it that is for sure. She wasnt happy when the Kings didnt trade him to Philly. I have always had a soft spot for him since his days in Manchester when I used to go to a lot of AHL games.

 

[Tripod]

So Bernier, what would everyone feel comfortable signing him to for term and cap hit?

He earned over 4.1 million on the current contract, but that was when he was signed to be a starter in TO.

With Greiss signing for 3.33 mill, I think that is the number to shoot for.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

So Bernier, what would everyone feel comfortable signing him to for term and cap hit?

He earned over 4.1 million on the current contract, but that was when he was signed to be a starter in TO.

With Greiss signing for 3.33 mill, I think that is the number to shoot for.

That seems fair to me too, all threes - 3.33/yr x 3 yrs.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don't think Mason is coming back. I don't think either party is really fixated on each other.

I think it's either Bishop or they go for broke.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I don't think Mason is coming back. I don't think either party is really fixated on each other.

I think it's either Bishop or they go for broke.

I hate to break it to you LoD, but it has been broke for some time.

 

[Flyers1987]

I don't think Mason is coming back. I don't think either party is really fixated on each other.

I think it's either Bishop or they go for broke.

Think Hextall has a lot of options for goalie. I would like to have Mason back but that relationship soured last year. No talk of contract extension think really got to him. Think Mason really wanted to stay with Philly.

Hextall has stated he would prefer a veteran goaltender on a short term deal. Think that rules out Bishop who I wouldn't mind at all.

Expansion Draft will lead to trades before the expansion draft. The recent unsigned Scott Darling trade was that of a 3rd round pick. So the cost could be around there. Some goaltenders that could be available that fit:
*Cam Ward (Carolina)
*Mike Smith (Arizona)
*Jimmy Howard (Detroit)
*Varlamov (Colorado)
*Fleury (Pitt)

Free Agent options:
*Bernier (Ana)
*Elliot (Calgary)
*Nilsson (Buffalo)

Think Ryan Miller stays out west or would have put him on the list.

 

[Prongo]

I don't think Mason is coming back. I don't think either party is really fixated on each other.

I think it's either Bishop or they go for broke.

I do think we are going to go for bishop. Hexy will try to get term short, I predict three years. 3 years 6 million cap hit. Then we have stolarz play another full season with the phantoms as well as Lyon and see what the situation looks like in 18-19

 

[Tripod]

^^^^^ I would not touch any of those RFA. They all come with high cap hits.

If we are getting a ******** goalie than Mason has been, then we should be getting a lower cap hit than he was getting in 4.1.

Hopefully Hextall has something up his sleeve.