TV: The All - Encompassing Star Trek Thread. Debate Long + Prosper

Osprey

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I've been watching Star Trek Continues and really like it. If you aren't familiar with it, it's a fan-made Season 4 of TOS, made between 2013 and 2017, with new actors and recreated sets.

That sounds awful and I had no interest for years, but I begrudgingly checked it out recently and was really impressed. They did a fantastic job of recreating TOS. Just about everything matches: the sets, color palette, costumes, hair styles, camerawork, sounds, music, storytelling and even cheesiness. Speaking of cheesiness, I almost spit out my drink when I saw Kirk jump into a foe with both feet. That's some attention to detail.

I appreciate how close Kirk and Scotty are in appearance and characterization to the originals. Scotty is played by James Doohan's son, so no surprise there. Spock feels a little off to me, but still more Spock-like than recent official ones. The guy who plays Bones for the first few episodes is just wrong in every way, but his replacement is a lot better (though much too tall). The rest of the characters (Uhura, Chekov and Sulu, played by Grant Imahara) seem like decent enough facsimiles for the few scenes that they're in. I like the one significant new character, a female counselor, who fits right in as a Deanna Troi predecessor. I also liked seeing Michael Forest reprise his role as Apollo (from "Who Mourns for Adonais?") in the first episode.

Overall, it's been close enough for me to imagine that I'm watching a Season 4 of TOS. In fact, it has more of the look and feeling of Star Trek than anything that CBS/Paramount has put out in decades, IMO, which I think says a lot. I recommend it if you've been ignoring it (like me) because it's not official Trek.

All 11 episodes are free on YouTube.

 
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johnjm22

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Shatner has been taking some shots at current ST promo imagery recently.

It is kind of insane that streaming era Trek always seems to try and minimize him.
 

johnjm22

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Justin Lin talked about the production process on Star Trek Beyond recently. He said a few interesting things:

I get a call from J.J. Abrams, and he’s like, ‘Hey man, just curious, do you like Star Trek?. I’m like, ‘I grew up watching Star Trek with my dad, it has so much meaning,’” Lin recalled. “He said, ‘Would you happen to have an idea for a Star Trek movie?’
“So, on Monday, I sat down with J.J. and shared with him the idea of Star Trek Beyond. He’s like, ‘Great!’ And this is the end of January. He said, ‘Let’s do it, but we have to start production in June.’ No script. Nothing . . . It was tough. The toughest thing I’ve ever had to do.”

It's amazing how these mega budget franchise films are so last minute, so reactionary, so hap hazardly put together.

You'd think these types of movies would have the most careful and stringent planning of all.
 
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The Macho King

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I swear I remember hearing somewhere about Justin Lin saying another movie he worked on had an insane turnaround time.
 

Roo Returns

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Justin Lin talked about the production process on Star Trek Beyond recently. He said a few interesting things:




It's amazing how these mega budget franchise films are so last minute, so reactionary, so hap hazardly put together.

You'd think these types of movies would have the most careful and stringent planning of all.
JJ already has his preferred mistress in Star Wars by that point. He didn't care about this film at all.

Simon Pegg gave it a shot. Back then he'd say it was his best shot, since then he's said it was just a shot and that the studio interfered. He wrote a summer blockbuster using common tropes (blowing up the hero ship, former officer with PTSD, away mission, good guys allies/friends in danger). He didn't write a Star Trek movie.

There's no audience for a fourth film. It's been almost ten years, all the actors are priced out. The Kelvinverse was a dumb idea when Hollywood was reboot crazy.
 
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Roo Returns

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Shatner has been taking some shots at current ST promo imagery recently.

It is kind of insane that streaming era Trek always seems to try and minimize him.

He's a Caucasian male who was considered a lady's man even though the character Kirk always chose his career over domestic life. That doesn't fly in 2024.

They desperately want Burnham to be the new Spock or focal point of Star Trek. Look at how big her image is compared to the others. The issue is she's basically a Jack Bauer level character in a retcon show.
 

johnjm22

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Toby Haynes, who helmed episodes of Andor, will direct the film from a script by Seth Grahame-Smith (It, Lego Batman). J.J. Abrams will once again produce, which makes sense since the film is set decades before the events of his 2009 Star Trek film.

I'll believe it when I see it.
 

Jumptheshark

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For me, Star trek powers that be, dropped the ball with how the handled Axenar the fan movie. They had a great idea gifted to them but the control freaks did not realise just how good of idea they passed on
 

johnjm22

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For me, Star trek powers that be, dropped the ball with how the handled Axenar the fan movie. They had a great idea gifted to them but the control freaks did not realise just how good of idea they passed on
The guy behind Axanar, Alec Peters, is kind of a conman. I doubt it would have ever happened, and if it did it probably wouldn't have been very good.

I love the Ares design though.
 
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Jumptheshark

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The guy behind Axanar, Alec Peters, is kind of a conman. It was never going to happen.
Yes and no. He broke the first rule of fan productions. It was going to be for profitt.

But it. Came out in the lawsuit just how much money spent on the shoot. He had spent a lot on the shoot. Paramount and Bad robot made it lok like he spent only about 100k on actual filming and pocketed the rest. Problem was he produced detailed account books breaking all the donors and where the money went. According to the settlement he raised 1.6 mill via different outlets and spent 1.1 mill on the production. Paramount sicked the IRS on him and they were satisfied with his books.

A lot of crazy stuff happened during that lawsuit that Pissed off a lot of core trek fans
 

The Macho King

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He's a Caucasian male who was considered a lady's man even though the character Kirk always chose his career over domestic life. That doesn't fly in 2024.

They desperately want Burnham to be the new Spock or focal point of Star Trek. Look at how big her image is compared to the others. The issue is she's basically a Jack Bauer level character in a retcon show.
He's also been pretty hostile towards Trek and its fandom in the past. I love Kirk, TOS and (most of) the movies, but... IDK he never seemed to embrace it like Nimoy did. And the fact is Spock is just more iconic.

If anyone gets short shrift here it's Bones. He rocked in TOS but is pretty much an afterthought.
 
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johnjm22

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Yes and no. He broke the first rule of fan productions. It was going to be for profitt.

But it. Came out in the lawsuit just how much money spent on the shoot. He had spent a lot on the shoot. Paramount and Bad robot made it lok like he spent only about 100k on actual filming and pocketed the rest. Problem was he produced detailed account books breaking all the donors and where the money went. According to the settlement he raised 1.6 mill via different outlets and spent 1.1 mill on the production. Paramount sicked the IRS on him and they were satisfied with his books.

A lot of crazy stuff happened during that lawsuit that Pissed off a lot of core trek fans
Have you been following this closely?

Axanar Productions bank statements have been published online recently. Peters was using the money raised via the campaign for his own personal enrichment.

Sex shops, dating websites, vacations, memorabilia, warhammer ect.
 

Jumptheshark

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Have you been following this closely?

Axanar Productions bank statements have been published online recently. Peters was using the money raised via the campaign for his own personal enrichment.

Sex shops, dating websites, vacations, memorabilia, warhammer ect.


I have been following. Did you read what the judge said independent auditors said 6 years ago.

This is coming from a new lawsuit filed bad robot and paramount.

Like I posted earlier. During the original lawsuit he produced the books for donations and expenditures. And the judge and independent auditors reviewed them and IRS investigated all the allegations. Between 1.4 to 1.6 got raised with 1.1 being proven used directly on first the teaser trailer and then the 21 minute short film.

Some people are ass hurt because like I posted...it was a for profit film and the investors were expecting to make a profit from the film.


Anyone who gave him money after he lost the lawsuit are idiots.

He is trying to get something else off the ground and most of the allegations are coming from people affiliated with the guys who sued him in the first place.

Am I saying this guy is nice, sweet and innocent? Nope. But the money from the original fund raising has been accounted for.

The problem comes from additional fund raising and him not paying cbs and paramount the 250k the judge ordered him to pay.

The number I saw on line suggested he only raised about 75k for the new production and I think that is where the problem is.

I know they were filming stuff between Jan and March 2023.. but no idea what's going on.

He should have just stopped after the lawsuit ended.

One of the few things Trek had done was allowing fans to do stuff with the brand. That all ended with this lawsuit and a large portion of the fan base does not hide the fact they hate him for that reason.

I saw the allegations on line in October of last year...my question is why he has not arrested?

There is a lot of crap being tossed around and the people who are posting about what they believe he has done have stopped right at the line of where he could sue them for libel or slander. They allege a lot of things. On November one was on a YouTube fan channel and the guy hosting asked to see the evidence. His response "well he was seen in.a first class lounge and coming out of a porn shop" when the host ask for evidence you prove that the money spent came from the new donations he got.. the response was "it is obvious where the money came from"

Everytume these people make the allegations they are asked for proof and asked why the have not gone to the police?

He is in trouble for not paying off what paramount was awarded and for fund raising again

I believe he will get arrested at some point in time for fraud, misrepresentation and other things.
 
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Osprey

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Taking place "Decades before" the 2009 film?? Why does this franchise insist on boldly going backwards?
It is a bit ironic for a franchise that used to be forward thinking. I think that one reason is that it's now written by TV writers who only know how to write fan fiction inside the established timeline, not by science fiction writers with the imagination to move it forward.
He's also been pretty hostile towards Trek and its fandom in the past. I love Kirk, TOS and (most of) the movies, but... IDK he never seemed to embrace it like Nimoy did. And the fact is Spock is just more iconic.
Nimoy did write a book in the mid-70s entitled "I Am Not Spock" about distancing himself from the character, refused to be in Star Trek: Phase II and the first feature film (though he obviously was talked into that) and was talked in Star Trek II by the idea of killing Spock. He obviously came around, and eventually even wrote a second book entitled "I Am Spock," but, for a while, he didn't embrace the role. Shatner famously wrote his own book in the late 90s entitled "Get a Life!", directed towards fans who take things too seriously and attend conventions, but that was also shortly after co-writing a few Trek novels, a few Trek memoirs and the TekWar series. Also, he's since written and directed a few Trek documentaries, done a Trek-themed Super Bowl commercial, gone into space and even attended many conventions. So, I'd say that both actors had points where they didn't seem to appreciate what they helped create, but came around and embraced it.
 
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The Nemesis

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Taking place "Decades before" the 2009 film?? Why does this franchise insist on boldly going backwards?

Because it's safe. Setting a movie in a period where they have established fiction before and after it means that they have a safe space where everything is defined for them and they can comfortably nestle the story into a web of pre-set pathing and obviously identifiable teases towards the story's future direction. Because the studios will argue (and to some extent they're right) that people don't want daring new ideas where there are no safety rails to stop you from falling over the edge and plummeting to your doom. They want the comfortable feeling of familiarity that lets them go "I know this thing and I know that other thing they're talking about!" and end up with a story that gives them everything they want with no risk or threat that it's going to shake up a known status quo too badly or confront them with a direction that challenges them or makes them uncomfortable.

It's why prequels are the thing du jour. Game of Thrones wraps and we go right into a prequel because it means we know where the story has to end up. Lord of the Rings wraps and we get the Hobbit largely because it was the only thing in the Tolkien ouvre that gave them enough runway to even pretend that their story was based on his content but then we do The Rings of Power which is an original story that is a prequel.

Or in a broader sense, take one of my other big fandoms (as evidenced by my avatar), The Transformers. They did the original toyline, cartoon, comics, and movie in a span from about 1984 until around 1991. Then with the franchise sputtering they reinvented it as Beast Wars, a radically different take on the concept that was eventually plugged in to be set way off in the distant future, far beyond the reach of the original fiction. Then it ended and into the late 90s and early 2000s there were a quartet of anime series that each told a somewhat unique variation of the story that in some cases may or may not have tied to one another. But then came the Michael Bay movies. And the comic book series from Dreamwave and then IDW. And every cartoon they made from about 2010 onwards. And each of those things has more or less been rehashing the same basic beats of the original 1984+ story over and over and over again to the point that you know almost exactly what you're getting in terms of a broad strokes picture: Autobots vs Decepticons, Optimus Prime as a big red truck vs Megatron probably as a big silver tank or spaceship or whatever because he can't be a gun. Fighter jet Starscream looking to usurp Megatron, friendly yellow Bumblebee, a millennia-old war brought to Earth, magic macguffin thing that grants fantastic power, etc. It's not 100% identical but there has never been the same sort of inventiveness or creativity that defined the franchise from about 1995 to 2009 or so.

And that's where Star Trek is too. A series that's going to hit 60 years old this decade hasn't, with 2 exceptions, produced an original work that doesn't just give us a new take on a familiar thing (The Abrams movies, Strange New Worlds, Picard since it is explicitly "TNG but old dudes") or a new thing within a construct of familiarity (Discovery at least from where it started off being set back in a TOS-ish era) since Voyager wrapped up over 20 goddamn years ago. Those exceptions? Prodigy, a kids-focused show that tanked, and Lower Decks, another cartoon. The only thing holding Trek to its bold vision of moving forward into the future is the animated arm that you get the impression only has the freedom to do what it wants because it lacks the prestige of live action film and TV.

It is a bit ironic for a franchise that used to be forward thinking. I think that one reason is that it's now written by TV writers who only know how to write fan fiction inside the established timeline, not by science fiction writers with the imagination to move it forward.

Nimoy did write a book in the mid-70s entitled "I Am Not Spock" in order to distance himself from the character and it was his idea to kill off Spock in Star Trek II. He obviously came around, and eventually even wrote a second book entitled "I Am Spock," but, for a while, he didn't embrace the role. Shatner famously wrote his own book in the late 90s entitled "Get a Life!", directed towards fans who take things too seriously and attend conventions, but that was also shortly after co-writing a few Trek novels, a few Trek memoirs and the TekWar series. Also, he's since written and directed the Chaos on the Bridge documentary, done a Trek-themed Super Bowl commercial, gone into space and even attended many conventions. So, I'd say that both actors had points where they didn't seem to appreciate what they helped create, but came around and embraced it.

I've always felt like it was two different things for each actor. Nimoy seemed to resent that his notoriety as Spoke pigeonholed him in terms of getting acting gigs. He did that brief run as Paris on Mission Impossible in order to replace Martin Landau but otherwise he felt chained down by Spock the character preventing people from seeing him as anything else. Meanwhile William Shatner got steady(ish) work with TJ Hooker, Rescue 911, Boston Legal, etc and it felt like his backlash was less about the machinations of the hollywood machine and more like watching an accomplished stage actor grumble about how the only thing they're remembered for is a kitschy, low-brow role that they felt was "beneath" them. Obviously Galaxy Quest largely meant for Tim Allen's character to be the Kirk send-up but I see some paralells in Shatner's attitude portrayed in Alan Rickman's character loathing of his endless association with this one role.

So it's like Nimoy's issue was "I can't get other work because you only think of me as Spock" vs Shatner's issue being "I can get work but no matter what you only think of me as Kirk."
 

Osprey

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I've always felt like it was two different things for each actor. Nimoy seemed to resent that his notoriety as Spoke pigeonholed him in terms of getting acting gigs. He did that brief run as Paris on Mission Impossible in order to replace Martin Landau but otherwise he felt chained down by Spock the character preventing people from seeing him as anything else. Meanwhile William Shatner got steady(ish) work with TJ Hooker, Rescue 911, Boston Legal, etc and it felt like his backlash was less about the machinations of the hollywood machine and more like watching an accomplished stage actor grumble about how the only thing they're remembered for is a kitschy, low-brow role that they felt was "beneath" them. Obviously Galaxy Quest largely meant for Tim Allen's character to be the Kirk send-up but I see some paralells in Shatner's attitude portrayed in Alan Rickman's character loathing of his endless association with this one role.

So it's like Nimoy's issue was "I can't get other work because you only think of me as Spock" vs Shatner's issue being "I can get work but no matter what you only think of me as Kirk."
Yeah, they may've had different reasons, but the resentment, itself--"you only think of me as..."--was similar. For Nimoy, I suspect that the opportunities to direct and write that Star Trek opened up helped him to forgive it for derailing his acting career. For Shatner, it may've been a slower realization that all of the work that he was getting because he was Kirk wasn't so bad after all.

Speaking of Nimoy, here's a good blog post on his love/hate relationship with Spock:
https://startrekdom.blogspot.com/2007/05/leonard-nimoys-lovehate-relationship.html
 
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Lshap

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Because it's safe. Setting a movie in a period where they have established fiction before and after it means that they have a safe space where everything is defined for them and they can comfortably nestle the story into a web of pre-set pathing and obviously identifiable teases towards the story's future direction. Because the studios will argue (and to some extent they're right) that people don't want daring new ideas where there are no safety rails to stop you from falling over the edge and plummeting to your doom. They want the comfortable feeling of familiarity that lets them go "I know this thing and I know that other thing they're talking about!" and end up with a story that gives them everything they want with no risk or threat that it's going to shake up a known status quo too badly or confront them with a direction that challenges them or makes them uncomfortable.

It's why prequels are the thing du jour. Game of Thrones wraps and we go right into a prequel because it means we know where the story has to end up. Lord of the Rings wraps and we get the Hobbit largely because it was the only thing in the Tolkien ouvre that gave them enough runway to even pretend that their story was based on his content but then we do The Rings of Power which is an original story that is a prequel.

Or in a broader sense, take one of my other big fandoms (as evidenced by my avatar), The Transformers. They did the original toyline, cartoon, comics, and movie in a span from about 1984 until around 1991. Then with the franchise sputtering they reinvented it as Beast Wars, a radically different take on the concept that was eventually plugged in to be set way off in the distant future, far beyond the reach of the original fiction. Then it ended and into the late 90s and early 2000s there were a quartet of anime series that each told a somewhat unique variation of the story that in some cases may or may not have tied to one another. But then came the Michael Bay movies. And the comic book series from Dreamwave and then IDW. And every cartoon they made from about 2010 onwards. And each of those things has more or less been rehashing the same basic beats of the original 1984+ story over and over and over again to the point that you know almost exactly what you're getting in terms of a broad strokes picture: Autobots vs Decepticons, Optimus Prime as a big red truck vs Megatron probably as a big silver tank or spaceship or whatever because he can't be a gun. Fighter jet Starscream looking to usurp Megatron, friendly yellow Bumblebee, a millennia-old war brought to Earth, magic macguffin thing that grants fantastic power, etc. It's not 100% identical but there has never been the same sort of inventiveness or creativity that defined the franchise from about 1995 to 2009 or so.

And that's where Star Trek is too. A series that's going to hit 60 years old this decade hasn't, with 2 exceptions, produced an original work that doesn't just give us a new take on a familiar thing (The Abrams movies, Strange New Worlds, Picard since it is explicitly "TNG but old dudes") or a new thing within a construct of familiarity (Discovery at least from where it started off being set back in a TOS-ish era) since Voyager wrapped up over 20 goddamn years ago. Those exceptions? Prodigy, a kids-focused show that tanked, and Lower Decks, another cartoon. The only thing holding Trek to its bold vision of moving forward into the future is the animated arm that you get the impression only has the freedom to do what it wants because it lacks the prestige of live action film and TV.
Thanks for a well thought out answer to my rhetorical question.

That's why I appreciated Picard. Despite its weaknesses, it's the one and only Trek series to ask 'what happens next?'. It tosses away the crutch of using the 1960s as its foundation and constructs a brand new future. The rest of Trek has turned into yet another Spider-Man origin story – how many ways can Trek show us how Kirk and Spock came to be?

Nothing wrong with nostalgia and a thread connecting past to present. Picard certainly went to town on nostalgia. But push forward, for godsakes. Is Star Trek doomed to be caught in one of its own time-loops? Is that all that's left for this franchise?

Sadly, that's another rhetorical question...
 
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The Nemesis

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Yeah, they may've had different reasons, but the resentment, itself--"you only think of me as..."--was similar. For Nimoy, I suspect that the opportunities to direct and write that Star Trek opened up helped him to forgive it for derailing his acting career. For Shatner, it may've been a slower realization that all of the work that he was getting because he was Kirk wasn't so bad after all.

Speaking of Nimoy, here's a good blog post on his love/hate relationship with Spock:
https://startrekdom.blogspot.com/2007/05/leonard-nimoys-lovehate-relationship.html

True. I think the difference also is what played a role in how they got over it. Nimoy's resentment of his limited or narrow opportunities lifted in the 70s and 80s as he realized that there were other opportunities open to him that were because of his Spock association. And perhaps the realization that as a guy who was likely more character actor than leading man, having a singular iconic role that would forever engrave him in the public consciousness is a rare and special thing. Meanwhile Shatner's resentment of his limited or narrow fame took longer to dissipate because it was more internally focused on his own ego and that's a harder thing to rationalize.

But really the most interesting thing I took from that link aside from the excerpts from Nimoy's books and writings is the continued and evolving look at what a tremendous douchebag Gene Roddenberry actually was. That memo where he excoriates Nimoy's camp for trying to leverage Spock's popularity into greater pay smacks of the sort of ego and arrogance that has been increasingly recognized as part of Roddenberry's lording over Star Trek behind his carefully crafted mask as "the great bird of the galaxy": the folksy, happy, fatherly overseer of our imaginations that invites people to play with his wonderful box of toys while he basks in our reverence.

But never forget that this is the dickhead that wrote profoundly shitty lyrics to the TOS theme song that he had no intention of ever using in any capacity, but created solely so he could filch half the royalties for the theme's use (with or without lyrics) from composer Alexander Courage without Courage's knowledge.

It's kind of funny. For as opposite as their franchises are, the fandom wars they've sparked over their shared territory in the pop culture sci-fi zeitgeist, and the different paths they've taken in terms of how they've shaped, impacted, and damaged their creations, Gene Roddenberry and George Lucas have both kind of ended up in the same place: beloved for what they made and well-earned reputations as "idea men", but with the dawning realization that they needed other people to do the heavy lifting and finer details to prevent their limitations from sabotaging the whole product.

Thanks for a well thought out answer to my rhetorical question.

That's why I appreciated Picard. Despite its weaknesses, it's the one and only Trek series to ask 'what happens next?'. It tosses away the crutch of using the 1960s as its foundation and constructs a brand new future. The rest of Trek has turned into yet another Spider-Man origin story – how many ways can Trek show us how Kirk and Spock came to be?

Nothing wrong with nostalgia and a thread connecting past to present. Picard certainly went to town on nostalgia. But push forward, for godsakes. Is Star Trek doomed to be caught in one of its own time-loops? Is that all that's left for this franchise?

Sadly, that's another rhetorical question...

I couldn't get into Picard because in spite of it being new I felt like it nostalgia-bated a bit too hard. It was new stuff but with a "we know new and different is scary, so here's Picard! And Riker, and Dr. Crusher! And Geordi! And Hugh! You know these characters and love them, right? So it's OK if we tell a different story because it's a different story with the same old comfy sweater on it". I ended up watching the first season and then occasionally seeing bits and pieces of the later ones but after season 1 I never made a point of recording it when it aired or sitting down to watch it on the regular.

It's also why I appreciate Lower Decks not just because I got over my initial hesitance for a half-hour sitcom Trek and dislike of Mariner's annoying use of comedy protagonists being allowed to be unaccountable for their flaws (which has gradually faded away) to really enjoy it. Because while it does also do a bit of nostalgia-bating with references and guest stars and some farily explicit "'member this?" bits, it is a brand new story set in the time after the wrap of the TNG/DS9/VOY era that is free to go in whatever direction it wants with a brand new cast of characters that aren't just the people we've become familiar with.

As for once again answering a rhetorical question: I think that's all that's left for a lot of franchises. As long as studios want big money but also want things to be as safe and fail-proof as possible they are going to continue to look at franchise works that they can endlessly reboot and retell as their golden goose: Giving people what they like and will buy without any of the risk associated with trying to get them to embrace something new and different.

Just as an example:

Of the top 20 grossing films of the 1990s, only 5 came with any sort of pre-existing broad appeal (overlooking things that were adapted from works that were not pop cultural phenomona already): Star Wars Episode I, The Lost World: Jurassic Park, Terminator 2, Toy Story 2, and the first of the Mission: Impossible movies. The other 15 films were either entirely new, non-franchise properties (Titanic, Forrest Gump, Independence Day, The Lion King, The Sixth Sense, etc) or were adapted from something that was maybe known but not a huge deal (The first Jurassic Park as I'm counting the Lost World above as a sequel to this and not becuase I think the Chrichton novels were a massive runaway success, Men in Black, Aladdin considering the idea of the tale is well known but not all of its specifics).

Comparatively the top 20 grossing films of the 2010s only one film in its top 20 is anywhere close to "original": Frozen. Like Aladdin adapted from a fairy/folk tale, but not one that was huge in the public consciousness. The rest of the top 20 is 7 Marvel Movies (all the Avengers films plus Black Panther, Iron Man 3, and Captain America: Civil War), The first two movies in the Star Wars sequel trilogy, 2 Jurassic World movies, 2 Fast & The Furious movies, the last Harry Potter movie, 2 live action Disney remakes (Lion King and Beauty & The Beast), and 3 cartoon franchise sequels/spinoffs (Frozen II, Incredibles 2, and Minions). Hell, the only movies in the top 50 that are completely and totally original are Zootopia (38th) and The Secret Life of Pets (50th)
 
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johnjm22

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Why is Abrams / Bad Robot still involved?

Their deal with Paramount supposedly ended in 2018.

Bad Robot and Secret Hideout seem completely incapable of producing Star Trek on a reasonable budget.

BudgetWW GrossMultiple
ST2009
150m​
385m​
2.57​
Into Darkness
190m​
467m​
2.46​
Beyond
185m​
343m​
1.85​
TOTAL
525m
1195B
2.28

Their Star Trek films didn't even make money. 525M spent with a box office return of only 1.2B is barely break even if at all.

Paramount+ has also lost hundreds of millions of dollars on its streaming platform while spending huge amounts of money Star Trek shows (10M per episode in some cases).

Clearly it's time for a new approach from a production standpoint.
 

Tawnos

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10,730
Charlotte, NC
I saw an interesting point on this topic recently... that studios are all-in on franchises because they flip back to a pre-fragmentation period of entertainment. Prior to the 2010s, the entertainment market in the US was FAR more of a monoculture. Not completely, but much more than it is now. Game of Thrones was maybe the last gasp of it. Barbie and Oppenheimer managed to break this paradigm, but fragmentation is generally where we are now.

If you put out a brand new blockbuster type of movie today, chances are you'll only get a sliver of the total audience. If you put out a franchise blockbuster, you're able to target the entire audience from a period of time where there were fewer options and that's way bigger than the audience your brand new blockbuster-type will garner. So, it isn't *just* a matter of studios playing it safe. That's certainly part of it. But it's also a recognition of the current fragmented media landscape.
 

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
88,333
31,706
Langley, BC
Why is Abrams / Bad Robot still involved?

Their deal with Paramount supposedly ended in 2018.

Bad Robot and Secret Hideout seem completely incapable of producing Star Trek on a reasonable budget.

BudgetWW GrossMultiple
ST2009
150m​
385m​
2.57​
Into Darkness
190m​
467m​
2.46​
Beyond
185m​
343m​
1.85​
TOTAL
525m
1195B
2.28

Their Star Trek films didn't even make money. 525M spent with a box office return of only 1.2B is barely break even if at all.

Paramount+ has also lost hundreds of millions of dollars on its streaming platform while spending huge amounts of money Star Trek shows (10M per episode in some cases).

Clearly it's time for a new approach from a production standpoint.

I wonder if Abrams is still involved because although their deal ended a few years ago, these intermittent "we've got a new Star Trek coming" teases that happen every couple of years seem to all be extensions of what begin life as the apparently planned Abrams Trek 4 that was first talked about almost right after Beyond. So because it's like they're pretending that this is just the same constantly-sort-of-not-really-in-production work that's been hinted at since like 2016 it isn't a new movie made after the expiry of the production deal but one that was started before the end point that's just dragged out forever with constant "retooling" (read: tearing it right down to the studs of "it's a Star Trek movie with the Abramsverse cast" and starting from scratch)
 

johnjm22

Pseudo Intellectual
Aug 2, 2005
19,699
15,138
You've gotta be able to make a Star Trek movie for like 100M, or else the risk/reward on it doesn't make much sense.

Problem is you've got an ensemble cast that costs a lot of money.

That's why I think the next ST film won't be Kelvinverse because the cast is too expensive now. If you start with new actors you can get the costs down significantly.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
95,723
60,026
Ottawa, ON
He's a Caucasian male who was considered a lady's man even though the character Kirk always chose his career over domestic life. That doesn't fly in 2024.

Er, there are three white Caucasian males who were good with the ladies in the graphic.

Four if you count Spock.
 

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