The Airing of Grievances

[Bench]

Thomas Vanek is really all of these same things. For better and for worse.

I almost said that! I like what Vanek brings, I just hope he isn't too slow.

 

[Retire91]

The Ilitch family no longer cares about doing what it takes to win Stanley Cups. If they can make money in the short term by hurting the team's long-term development, they will. They're neglecting this team to make a little extra cash, and it's disgusting.

Pretty much this, the Illich empire is not an organization that cares about a Stanley up anymore they will pray on red wing fandom and milk every red cent its worth to serve fan loyalty with mediocrity. Thanks for the golden years Illich but your current MO is transparent. Can't wait to see how washed up Ott and Vanek are

 

[Z40]

I absolutely hate Helm in the Top-6. Like, it physically disgusts me. His contract makes it even worse to stomach.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Make the playoffs.

Eventually the fans will get wise to just making the playoffs.

I hate the streak.

It's just delaying the fact that the team has no future, bad contracts, and a GM thats following orders to make money.

 

[Red Stanley]

I think the playoff streak is remarkable and should absolutely be a major consideration in any managerial decision. Staying afloat is not the problem, as long as prospects like Mantha and AA are given legit opportunities along the way (and as soon as possible) to show they can be major pieces of the next core. That's not really what's been happening and it would be my biggest grievance.

 

[Konnan511]

Helms contract is one of the worst contracts I have ever seen. It's like giving the back up QB a max deal when Brady is the starter.

 

[RedMenace]

Helms contract is one of the worst contracts I have ever seen. It's like giving the back up QB a max deal when Brady is the starter.

Yeah, that's really my only grievance with this off-season: The Helm contract is a real head-scratcher, to be sure.

 

[MrTaterSalad]

My biggest grievance that I would like to file is that there seems to be no plan for this team, no direction of where to go or what to do. I really don't consider treading water until the and through the opening of the new arena to be a concrete plan. This off-season, Kenny was supposed to put a plan in place to right this ship and instead, we got what we always got, no change, no defensive upgrade and a log-jam of veteran players hogging up roster spots from the kids.

At first Ken Holland was all like this before the off-season started and had me quasi-excited. . .

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

I wish, for once, you'd see the headline "Ken Holland makes a Bold Move: X". Like them or not, moves like Subban for Weber and Hall for Larsson change things. The last time I can remember the Wings doing anything like that was trading Unger to St Louis, or Oates to St Louis. So, in a way, a Larkin for Shattenkirk trade would be in the fine tradition of a trade with St Louis that flamed out spectacularly, but at least it would be a bold move.


We need a bold move.

 

[HIFE]

My feels are hurt when I read not just in every thread but almost every single post the resentment for Darren Helm and his contract.

Helm is one of the most dominant players on the Wings, and that's playing against 29 teams' 2nd and 3rd liners. He makes **** happen. From forechecking causing turnovers, winning battles, cycling the puck and most of all creating or being part of multiple chances per game, Helm is a strength of the DRW.

Compared to other signings like Glendening, Ott, Miller, Sheahan, Vanek, and sad to say DeKeyser, none of them have near the effect on hockey games and as players honestly the thought of them on my team does not pump me up. I do not get how Helm is lumped with this group when he's a far better player. How many years are we waiting for our 1st round pick Sheahan to do something? Nyquist and Tatar disappear for weeks at a time. Smith can't stay on the team for more than 3 games in a row. I won't elaborate on my lack of enthusiasm over some of the forwards we've signed. I think Helm has risen to become a slick player who is a force and effect most shifts he takes. He's a more effective player than 3/4 of this hockey team.

What is really so disgusting about 3.8 mil? So the forum would be satisfied with 3.2, or 3.4? We'd truly be better off with Troy Brower at 4 something or Boedkker for 4? We cannot have another European player in that slot. I'd rather a Manitoba guy (who is the 5th ranked player from the providence) like Sawchuk and is an absolute positive in any role he plays, from lockeroom to PK or key situations I like what Helm has proven to be able to provide. Ah yes the argument Athanasiou is already better and his spot is being blocked...yeah right. We have a slew of ****-blockers in the way (who AA will pass out of camp guaranteed) but Helm is not one of them. The contract was fair value for an UFA just before 30 on an upside to his career.

I hope he is placed in the bottom 6 to begin the season to shut people here up but guess what? He'll immediately be back in the top 6. He's been Datsyuk's partner for years and was 100% part of Pavel's continued PPG production. Riley Sheahan and Jurco can only have wet dreams imagining being placed in such a position. Just like Abdelkader, he and Helm both have somehow become key elements you can't deny their success. I'm not ashamed they are the leaders of this team, at least between the generation of Z/ Kronwall to Larkin/AA. They play Michigan style hockey I believe in that. I'll be stating this in the "bold predictions" thread but I feel Helm is going to have a career year. He might stay healthy for once and start scoring on a few of the 6 shots he gets per game. I really hope he and Abdelkader can step it up a notch to prove their worth and quiet a lot of the haters.

 

[Claypool]

So, in a way, a Larkin for Shattenkirk trade would be in the fine tradition of a trade with St Louis that flamed out spectacularly, but at least it would be a bold move.


We need a bold move.

Yuck. What is wrong with people.

 

[Langdon Alger]

When will the feats of strength be taking place?

 

[Shaman464]

My feels are hurt when I read not just in every thread but almost every single post the resentment for Darren Helm and his contract.

Helm is one of the most dominant players on the Wings, and that's playing against 29 teams' 2nd and 3rd liners. He makes **** happen. From forechecking causing turnovers, winning battles, cycling the puck and most of all creating or being part of multiple chances per game, Helm is a strength of the DRW.

Compared to other signings like Glendening, Ott, Miller, Sheahan, Vanek, and sad to say DeKeyser, none of them have near the effect on hockey games and as players honestly the thought of them on my team does not pump me up. I do not get how Helm is lumped with this group when he's a far better player. How many years are we waiting for our 1st round pick Sheahan to do something? Nyquist and Tatar disappear for weeks at a time. Smith can't stay on the team for more than 3 games in a row. I won't elaborate on my lack of enthusiasm over some of the forwards we've signed. I think Helm has risen to become a slick player who is a force and effect most shifts he takes. He's a more effective player than 3/4 of this hockey team.

What is really so disgusting about 3.8 mil? So the forum would be satisfied with 3.2, or 3.4? We'd truly be better off with Troy Brower at 4 something or Boedkker for 4? We cannot have another European player in that slot. I'd rather a Manitoba guy (who is the 5th ranked player from the providence) like Sawchuk and is an absolute positive in any role he plays, from lockeroom to PK or key situations I like what Helm has proven to be able to provide. Ah yes the argument Athanasiou is already better and his spot is being blocked...yeah right. We have a slew of ****-blockers in the way (who AA will pass out of camp guaranteed) but Helm is not one of them. The contract was fair value for an UFA just before 30 on an upside to his career.

I hope he is placed in the bottom 6 to begin the season to shut people here up but guess what? He'll immediately be back in the top 6. He's been Datsyuk's partner for years and was 100% part of Pavel's continued PPG production. Riley Sheahan and Jurco can only have wet dreams imagining being placed in such a position. Just like Abdelkader, he and Helm both have somehow become key elements you can't deny their success. I'm not ashamed they are the leaders of this team, at least between the generation of Z/ Kronwall to Larkin/AA. They play Michigan style hockey I believe in that. I'll be stating this in the "bold predictions" thread but I feel Helm is going to have a career year. He might stay healthy for once and start scoring on a few of the 6 shots he gets per game. I really hope he and Abdelkader can step it up a notch to prove their worth and quiet a lot of the haters.

Lets try this again:

Nothing you have said is based in reality. Helm being mismanaged by Babcock and his mini-me doesn't make him worth the contract he got. His points, his possession numbers, and the eye ball test show that he's a player Detroit shouldn't have given a lifetime contract, or ever played in the top 6. There is nothing done by Helm, or the team to believe he will have a career year, or that he is on the upside of his career. He is in no way an effective top line player. I get that you like him, but lets just be serious for a moment: He's nothing more than a quick footed roleplayer. Nothing more, nothing less. His presence on this team won't win them any more games, and his loss would have not cost them any games. He is just a symptom of the problem of Ken Holland, who is unable to let go of players, even when it's obvious that his life time contracts are crippling the team.

Helm is just a another manifestation of the cancer of Ken Holland. The sooner that Holland leaves the GM position, the sooner the team can right the ship.

 

[Bench]

I looked at next year's cap scenario. It's not encouraging to me. Here's the breakdown. Listed LTIR but didn't put them into totals.

Forwards: 9 total: $29.5 million
Zetterberg 6.08
Nielsen 5.25
Nyquist 4.75
Abdelkader 4.25
Franzen 3.95 (LTIR)
Helm 3.85
Sheahan 2.07
Glendening 1.8
Larkin 1.42

UFA/RFA: 7 total: 8.8 million
Tatar RFA (Previously 2.75)
Vanek UFA (2.6)
Vitale UFA (1.1) LTIR
Miller UFA (1.02)
Jurco RFA (.9)
Pulkkinen RFA (.812)
Ott UFA (.8)

Likely only Tatar, Vanek, Miller, and Ott are regulars taking NHL salary on the roster from that group.

Defense: 5 total: $21.45 million
Green 6.0
DeKeyser 5.0
Kronwall 4.75
Ericsson 4.25
Marchenko 1.45

UFA/RFA: 1 total: 2.75 million
Smith 2.75

Goaltenders: 2 total: 9.3 million
Howard 5.3
Mrazek 4.0

Total salary departures: $11.55 million on 8 players. Average departure: 1.44 million.

So assume players like AA and Mantha fill some slots of the RFAs and UFAs that may be on the way out. Lateral movement there. Then assume your big roles to fill are the following players.

Tatar
Vanek
Smith

The three combine for $8.1 million. I'll assume Tatar gets a raise if he stays. Also if Vanek does well he'll either get a raise or at least stay the same. If he doesn't do well, or does TOO well, he'll move on. Either way, top 9 position to fill. Prospect maybe here, save some bucks? And then you have Smith, so the team needs to replace an NHL defender. Can anyone step up?

Basically what I'm saying is there's like no budget for a single upgrade next year unless Holland unloads salary. There's only 3 roster spots in the top 12 for the forwards, and that includes Tatar, so maybe only 2. And there's only 1 spot for the defenders.

I simply hate how jammed up this roster is and without swinging some trades, that's not changing. Trying to add one impact defender at $6 million looks really difficult to squeeze in even next season.

 

[Red Stanley]

My feels are hurt when I read not just in every thread but almost every single post the resentment for Darren Helm and his contract.

Helm is one of the most dominant players on the Wings, and that's playing against 29 teams' 2nd and 3rd liners. He makes **** happen. From forechecking causing turnovers, winning battles, cycling the puck and most of all creating or being part of multiple chances per game, Helm is a strength of the DRW.

Compared to other signings like Glendening, Ott, Miller, Sheahan, Vanek, and sad to say DeKeyser, none of them have near the effect on hockey games and as players honestly the thought of them on my team does not pump me up. I do not get how Helm is lumped with this group when he's a far better player. How many years are we waiting for our 1st round pick Sheahan to do something? Nyquist and Tatar disappear for weeks at a time. Smith can't stay on the team for more than 3 games in a row. I won't elaborate on my lack of enthusiasm over some of the forwards we've signed. I think Helm has risen to become a slick player who is a force and effect most shifts he takes. He's a more effective player than 3/4 of this hockey team.

What is really so disgusting about 3.8 mil? So the forum would be satisfied with 3.2, or 3.4? We'd truly be better off with Troy Brower at 4 something or Boedkker for 4? We cannot have another European player in that slot. I'd rather a Manitoba guy (who is the 5th ranked player from the providence) like Sawchuk and is an absolute positive in any role he plays, from lockeroom to PK or key situations I like what Helm has proven to be able to provide. Ah yes the argument Athanasiou is already better and his spot is being blocked...yeah right. We have a slew of ****-blockers in the way (who AA will pass out of camp guaranteed) but Helm is not one of them. The contract was fair value for an UFA just before 30 on an upside to his career.

I hope he is placed in the bottom 6 to begin the season to shut people here up but guess what? He'll immediately be back in the top 6. He's been Datsyuk's partner for years and was 100% part of Pavel's continued PPG production. Riley Sheahan and Jurco can only have wet dreams imagining being placed in such a position. Just like Abdelkader, he and Helm both have somehow become key elements you can't deny their success. I'm not ashamed they are the leaders of this team, at least between the generation of Z/ Kronwall to Larkin/AA. They play Michigan style hockey I believe in that. I'll be stating this in the "bold predictions" thread but I feel Helm is going to have a career year. He might stay healthy for once and start scoring on a few of the 6 shots he gets per game. I really hope he and Abdelkader can step it up a notch to prove their worth and quiet a lot of the haters.

He creates a ton of chances for himself, but rarely ever finishes them. I like Helm, but don't see how he fits on this (or any) team as a top 6 scoring forward.

 

[HIFE]

...I simply hate how jammed up this roster is and without swinging some trades, that's not changing. Trying to add one impact defender at $6 million looks really difficult to squeeze in even next season.

I thought we were already trading for Fowler! Thanks for the breakdown. We certainly have committed to our group of players. On the positive side $6 is decent number combined with the option of trades. I doubt we brink Vanek, Tatar, or Smith back. I'd say we have a larger group of valuable and worthwhile pieces along with a number of undesirable contracts which is a good thing.

Our immovable contracts: Howard, Ericsson, Zetterberg, Kronwall. DeKeyser at 5 and Nyquist at 4.75 I'd say are right on the line.

The rest of our team would be wanted I'm sure taken for face value in no time at all. Our problem is that even one failed players is a giant hurdle and we have a small hand full of them. Our hope now is a strong trade, LTIR, and the EL Draft.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

I looked at next year's cap scenario. It's not encouraging

Is anything this front office does for this team, encouraging, anymore??

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I thought we were already trading for Fowler! Thanks for the breakdown. We certainly have committed to our group of players. On the positive side $6 is decent number combined with the option of trades. I doubt we brink Vanek, Tatar, or Smith back. I'd say we have a larger group of valuable and worthwhile pieces along with a number of undesirable contracts which is a good thing.

Our immovable contracts: Howard, Ericsson, Zetterberg, Kronwall. DeKeyser at 5 and Nyquist at 4.75 I'd say are right on the line.

The rest of our team would be wanted I'm sure taken for face value in no time at all. Our problem is that even one failed players is a giant hurdle and we have a small hand full of them. Our hope now is a strong trade, LTIR, and the EL Draft.

If not traded, the Wings will most certainly bring back Tatar.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Is anything this front office does for this team, encouraging, anymore??

We have a bunch of prospects that everyone seems to want to play. Where did they come from?

Not my place to judge, but if it angers you so much what the front office does, why do you watch? It's like Bench said. It's entertainment first and foremost. If it's no good, stop watching.

I'm not saying that you have to be Pollyanna and blindly support everything they do... but when you look at every move they make and it angers you, I think you should reconsider watching it.

 

[KJoe88]

I mean if I have to do it.

**** you Holland for that awful ******* Helm contract. Should've just gave the ******* contract to Athanasiou. I mean, paying a bottom sixer $5 million a year is pure nonsense! Especially to a guy like Helm who's had mediocre years recently.

Also, **** you Holland for still not being able to acquire the gosh damned defenseman we need. How much ****** longer do we have to sit here eagerly waiting for a gosh damned defenseman?!

I mean, sheesh.

That about covers it.

 

[Henkka]

I looked at next year's cap scenario. It's not encouraging to me. Here's the breakdown. Listed LTIR but didn't put them into totals.

Total salary departures: $11.55 million on 8 players. Average departure: 1.44 million.

So assume players like AA and Mantha fill some slots of the RFAs and UFAs that may be on the way out. Lateral movement there. Then assume your big roles to fill are the following players.

Tatar
Vanek
Smith

The three combine for $8.1 million. I'll assume Tatar gets a raise if he stays. Also if Vanek does well he'll either get a raise or at least stay the same. If he doesn't do well, or does TOO well, he'll move on. Either way, top 9 position to fill. Prospect maybe here, save some bucks? And then you have Smith, so the team needs to replace an NHL defender. Can anyone step up?

Basically what I'm saying is there's like no budget for a single upgrade next year unless Holland unloads salary. There's only 3 roster spots in the top 12 for the forwards, and that includes Tatar, so maybe only 2. And there's only 1 spot for the defenders.

I simply hate how jammed up this roster is and without swinging some trades, that's not changing. Trying to add one impact defender at $6 million looks really difficult to squeeze in even next season.

No chance to get impact defender in.

I did just let Vanek walk, let Miller walk, lost Sheahan in expansion, give a raise to Tatar (same as Nyquist), bring in Bertuzzi and Mantha, give slight raises to AA, Pulu and Jurco, let Smith walk and re-sign both Ouellet and Sproul to fill 6th-7th spots.

After that, because Weiss buyout caphit will raise to 2.56M, we are somewhere at 73.3 million in caphits.

2017-18
Akader - Nielsen - Nyquist
Zeta - Larkin - Tatar
Mantha - AA - Pulu/Jurco
Helm - Glendy - Bertuzzi
(UFA like Ott)

DeKeyser - Green
Kronwall - Marchenko
Ericsson - Sproul/OUellet

Mrazek/Howard

Howard contract kind of has do die away to make any bigger move possible. That's most useless dead cap right now.

 

[Winger98]

Howard contract kind of has do die away to make any bigger move possible. That's most useless dead cap right now.

Assuming Ericsson's mobility doesn't continue to slide. At least Howard could be a functional player, if Ericsson becomes any more immobile he won't be bringing anything to this club.

And if we're looking at not protecting Sheahan, we need to deal him. Just a dumb move on Holland's part if he keeps a piece like Sheahan around just to risk losing him for nothing. I'd rather get a pick back and send him nearly anywhere.

 

[Ezekial]

Assuming Ericsson's mobility doesn't continue to slide. At least Howard could be a functional player, if Ericsson becomes any more immobile he won't be bringing anything to this club.

And if we're looking at not protecting Sheahan, we need to deal him. Just a dumb move on Holland's part if he keeps a piece like Sheahan around just to risk losing him for nothing. I'd rather get a pick back and send him nearly anywhere.

He could bring a roster spot and cap relief to begin next season!

 

[jkutswings]

We have a bunch of prospects that everyone seems to want to play. Where did they come from?

Not my place to judge, but if it angers you so much what the front office does, why do you watch? It's like Bench said. It's entertainment first and foremost. If it's no good, stop watching.

I'm not saying that you have to be Pollyanna and blindly support everything they do... but when you look at every move they make and it angers you, I think you should reconsider watching it.

I can only speak for myself, but I really don't watch much anymore. It's sad, because I grew up with this franchise for decades, but I just don't see the point in investing significant time and/or money into a product that (in my opinion) appears have excluded itself from both any championship contention and any acquisition of elite talent for the foreseeable future.

So I still occasionally vent online, and I still might catch 3-4 games a year during the regular season, but it's just not worth the sustained effort when the extremely likely (and equally disappointing) outcome is pretty apparent.

The unfortunate part is that I still care...otherwise I could just abandon the sinking ship altogether and save myself some additional time and effort.

 

[Lampedampe]

The signing of Helm and Vanek disgust me, I think they are great players and I don't think we have anyone better or close to as good as they are in the organisation right now. But what do they really bring? They might help the wings make the play offs, MIGHT, but in doing so they block our prospects that have fought very hard to try to earn spots, we could have had AA and mantha on the roster, they wouldn't be better but they should belong on the team at this point. Vanek and Helm also block the possibilities of a number of trades due to cap.

Those 2 signings simply resemble the mediocrity of this team and the unwillingnes to make changes to improve this team in the long run.