Prospect Info: The Adolescent 2019 Draft Thread

[Mcnotloilersfan]

I'm not saying he is a bad player but he is a guy who looks special maybe but he is the exact kind of guy you pick in the second and third rounds and avoid in the first.

He isn't elite at anything and could very well be a good NHL player but he is a long shot, has a lot of developing to go and I think his chances of becoming a 3rd liner far exceed his top 6 chances. Not saying avoid taking him but don't reach for him in the first. Hell don't trade up for him in the first.

Okay... that's enough. Sorry this is really frustrating me but you don't know this player at all, and I have to walk away from this.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Okay... that's enough. Sorry this is really frustrating me but you don't know this player at all, and I have to walk away from this.

Maybe I'll go back and read more of what you posted but from what I have watched and the very tiny bit of a scouting info out about him, he just looks like your average every day second round pick.

 

[PKSpecialist]

And you are overvaluing a 15-31 pick in a weaker draft.

Whens the last time you saw a high end prospect and a 2nd being moved for a late 1st?

Ottawa got picks 26 and 48 in exchange for pick 22 at last years draft.
Toronto got 29 and 76 for pick 25.

A late 1st and mid range 2nd to 3rd is the value for moving up 4 spots in the draft in the first round.

Some here are suggesting that pick 35ish and 85ish are getting us up to 15ish. Not happening.

Washington received picks 46 and 87 for Marcus Johansson. That’s the type of deal we should expect if we trade those picks. Not magic beans. Johansson is a 40+ point NHL player.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

Strong defensively, medicore offensively

...in no way describes Tomasino.

 

[CycloneSweep]

...in no way describes Tomasino.

He is putting up a near identical pace as McLeod but Tomasino had more goals and McLeod assists.

PPG in your draft year is the definition of average offensively in the OHL.

 

[Llamamoto]

He is putting up a near identical pace as McLeod but Tomasino had more goals and McLeod assists.

PPG in your draft year is the definition of average offensively in the OHL.

Holy moly, how many times do you need to be told why his numbers are like that?

 

[CycloneSweep]

Holy moly, how many times do you need to be told why his numbers are like that?

He had a slow start and wasn't in the top 6. That doesn't really push him up in my mind. Whose to say he isn't a guy that always starts slow or that early season him isn't his normal and this is his high end. Shows inconsistency.

2019 NHL Draft: Jeremy’s Winter Rankings

This guys draft rankings are often pretty good. Has Tomasino at 48

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

He is putting up a near identical pace as McLeod but Tomasino had more goals and McLeod assists.

PPG in your draft year is the definition of average offensively in the OHL.

Okay, I'm back, I have to defend this. I'm going to go over what I've already gone over, but here goes.

Tomasino had 7 points in his first 16 games when his coaches weren't helping his confidence and playing him at the bottom of the lineup. When they gave him a chance in the top 6 and told him to play to his ability, he has had 46 points in the 36 games since and still getting better! I know this because I'm looking at the scouting report handed to me at the last game from a pro scout after discussing him and how we wouldn't be surprised if he climbed to about the 15 mark in the draft.

But no, you know more about the player than the seasons ticket holder and all of the professional scouts that I've talked to from the youtube videos that you watched...

 

[Llamamoto]

Okay, I'm back, I have to defend this. I'm going to go over what I've already gone over, but here goes.

Tomasino had 7 points in his first 16 games when his coaches weren't helping his confidence and playing him at the bottom of the lineup. When they gave him a chance in the top 6 and told him to play to his ability, he has had 46 points in the 36 games since and still getting better! I know this because I'm looking at the scouting report handed to me at the last game from a pro scout after discussing him and how we wouldn't be surprised if he climbed to about the 15 mark in the draft.

But no, you know more about the player than the seasons ticket holder and all of the professional scouts that I've talked to from the youtube videos that you watched...

 

[CycloneSweep]

Okay, I'm back, I have to defend this. I'm going to go over what I've already gone over, but here goes.

Tomasino had 7 points in his first 16 games when his coaches weren't helping his confidence and playing him at the bottom of the lineup. When they gave him a chance in the top 6 and told him to play to his ability, he has had 46 points in the 36 games since and still getting better! I know this because I'm looking at the scouting report handed to me at the last game from a pro scout after discussing him and how we wouldn't be surprised if he climbed to about the 15 mark in the draft.

But no, you know more about the player than the seasons ticket holder and all of the professional scouts that I've talked to from the youtube videos that you watched...

I'm not saying I know more than you, I'm saying from what I can see, read etc he is a second round pick and don't love his game.

Just because you are a season ticket holder doesn't necessarily mean you are right, fans of teams are known to overrate their players.

I've also noticed big risers in drafts usually don't work out great.

Also I have seen a lot of scouts that still push him outside of the first round.

He has had a great last while but the worries of his game before don't vanish.

Maybe I'll watch more recent games and see but I think he would be a mistake in the mid first. Late first at best.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

I'm not saying I know more than you, I'm saying from what I can see, read etc he is a second round pick and don't love his game.

Just because you are a season ticket holder doesn't necessarily mean you are right, fans of teams are known to overrate their players.

I've also noticed big risers in drafts usually don't work out great.

Also I have seen a lot of scouts that still push him outside of the first round.

He has had a great last while but the worries of his game before don't vanish.

Maybe I'll watch more recent games and see but I think he would be a mistake in the mid first. Late first at best.

I didn't think highly of Strome or Perlini in their draft years. The issue here isn't however how good I think he is, its flat out wrong statements coming from you. It isn't about "will he be a top line player or a bust", you are making evaluations about his game today that are way off base!

 

[CycloneSweep]

I didn't think highly of Strome or Perlini in their draft years. The issue here isn't however how good I think he is, its flat out wrong statements coming from you. It isn't about "will he be a top line player or a bust", you are making evaluations about his game today that are way off base!

His game today is a late 1st early 2nd at best. If you draft players based on half season stretches then drafts would go very different and be very messed up is my point. He was a 2nd/3rd round pick for a long time and is now jumping up the draft.

I have never seen a high riser be drafted high and actually turn out well.

His current game is good, not great, although he has great flashes. That said I still think there are at least 20-30 guys id easily take ahead of him and it's not even a deep draft in my mind.

Never said he was bad in any way.

I think he projects to be a very good third liner, just not something you spend a mid first on or trade up to jump on.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

His game today is a late 1st early 2nd at best. If you draft players based on half season stretches then drafts would go very different and be very messed up is my point. He was a 2nd/3rd round pick for a long time and is now jumping up the draft.

I have never seen a high riser be drafted high and actually turn out well.

His current game is good, not great, although he has great flashes. That said I still think there are at least 20-30 guys id easily take ahead of him and it's not even a deep draft in my mind.

Never said he was bad in any way.

I think he projects to be a very good third liner, just not something you spend a mid first on or trade up to jump on.

Everything though.. Everything about what you are saying is wrong.

He does not project to be a 3rd liner. His game is great, not just good. His game today is a mid first rounder, late first rounder at worst. This isn't about a half season stretch, this about a young player who always had the tools, and the toolbox, and is finally putting it altogether. It isn't like he's coming out of nowhere. He was the 5th overall pick in his OHL draft.

Give me your list of draft risers that don't turn out well. You say you have never seen a high riser drafted high and actually turn out? Ever heard of Elias Pettersson? Mark Schiefele? I mean those are just 2 names off the top of my head without really digging...

 

[CycloneSweep]

Everything though.. Everything about what you are saying is wrong.

He does not project to be a 3rd liner. His game is great, not just good. His game today is a mid first rounder, late first rounder at worst. This isn't about a half season stretch, this about a young player who always had the tools, and the toolbox, and is finally putting it altogether. It isn't like he's coming out of nowhere. He was the 5th overall pick in his OHL draft.

Give me your list of draft risers that don't turn out well. You say you have never seen a high riser drafted high and actually turn out? Ever heard of Elias Pettersson? Mark Schiefele? I mean those are just 2 names off the top of my head without really digging...

When was Pettersson ever ranked mid to late 2nd? Or Schiefele for that matter. They were guys often ranked in the first round that found their way up the rankings.

Actually to be honest. Looking back a few drafts I can't even find someone who has jumped over 30 picks into the first round.

Okay let's say I am completely out to lunch, show me a single video that proves to me that he is worth a mid first. That shows me he has elite ability

 

[Llamamoto]

When was Pettersson ever ranked mid to late 2nd? Or Schiefele for that matter. They were guys often ranked in the first round that found their way up the rankings.

Actually to be honest. Looking back a few drafts I can't even find someone who has jumped over 30 picks into the first round.

Okay let's say I am completely out to lunch, show me a single video that proves to me that he is worth a mid first. That shows me he has elite ability

He was saying that guys who rise in their draft year tend to continue to improve and make the nhl.

 

[CycloneSweep]

He was saying that guys who rise in their draft year tend to continue to improve and make the nhl.

Rising is one thing,I'm talking about ridiculous jumps. Like 30+ spots into the first round.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

When was Pettersson ever ranked mid to late 2nd? Or Schiefele for that matter. They were guys often ranked in the first round that found their way up the rankings.

Actually to be honest. Looking back a few drafts I can't even find someone who has jumped over 30 picks into the first round.

Okay let's say I am completely out to lunch, show me a single video that proves to me that he is worth a mid first. That shows me he has elite ability

You don't have to go far back on these boards to see these videos of Tomasino.

Here is Schiefele ranked 21 in these midterm rankings just among NA skaters.
North American Skaters Midterm Rankings | 2011 NHL Entry Draft

Here is Petterson not making the top list at all for Bob McKenzie
https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-pre-season-ranking-the-nolan-patrick-draft-1.567410

Again thats just a bit of digging around. But your argument against late risers is extremely off base. If late risers never work out, why do people drafted in later rounds continue to rise, sometimes into superstars? Benn, Gaudreau, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, need I go on? Tomasino always had the skill and he's rising this year to become a 1st rounder, instead of later and being a steal in a later round.

I'd also much rather take a bet on a draft riser than someone who keeps falling in the draft from the start of the year. Musil comes to mind.

Here I am, giving you example after example both on Tomasino, and players who prove my point.

All you are giving is "well i havent seen this from Tomasino" (because you've never watched him) or "I can think of a lot of risers who fail" (without naming any).

Quit wasting our time!

 

[CycloneSweep]

You don't have to go far back on these boards to see these videos of Tomasino.

Here is Schiefele ranked 21 in these midterm rankings just among NA skaters.
North American Skaters Midterm Rankings | 2011 NHL Entry Draft

Here is Petterson not making the top list at all for Bob McKenzie
https://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-pre-season-ranking-the-nolan-patrick-draft-1.567410

Again thats just a bit of digging around. But your argument against late risers is extremely off base. If late risers never work out, why do people drafted in later rounds continue to rise, sometimes into superstars? Benn, Gaudreau, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, need I go on? Tomasino always had the skill and he's rising this year to become a 1st rounder, instead of later and being a steal in a later round.

I'd also much rather take a bet on a draft riser than someone who keeps falling in the draft from the start of the year. Musil comes to mind.

Here I am, giving you example after example both on Tomasino, and players who prove my point.

All you are giving is "well i havent seen this from Tomasino" (because you've never watched him) or "I can think of a lot of risers who fail" (without naming any).

Quit wasting our time!

Fine. I'll back off on him and try and find more on him. Or simply just end it with, I don't like him or the draft in general.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Rising is one thing,I'm talking about ridiculous jumps. Like 30+ spots into the first round.

Biggest NHL Draft prospect risers ever.

Pat Kane wasn't even ranked in the first round. Look through here to find several examples of great players who rose as much or way more than Tomasino.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

His game today is a late 1st early 2nd at best. If you draft players based on half season stretches then drafts would go very different and be very messed up is my point. He was a 2nd/3rd round pick for a long time and is now jumping up the draft.

I have never seen a high riser be drafted high and actually turn out well.

His current game is good, not great, although he has great flashes. That said I still think there are at least 20-30 guys id easily take ahead of him and it's not even a deep draft in my mind.

Never said he was bad in any way.

I think he projects to be a very good third liner, just not something you spend a mid first on or trade up to jump on.

Schiefele, Provorov, and Johansen was ranked in the 2nd at the start of his draft year.

Timo Meier was ranked in the 3rd/4th.

Patrick Kane who went 1st overall wasn't even ranked in the 1st round.

 

[McDNicks17]

Rising is one thing,I'm talking about ridiculous jumps. Like 30+ spots into the first round.

That happens extremely often in regards to midseason rankings.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I guess I'm wrong here. Still don't like this draft

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

I guess I'm wrong here. Still don't like this draft

That I can kind of agree with. There are a few guys I like in the top 10 (the big 2, Dach, and Turcotte) but I don't love early 1st. I do think the 2nd half of the 1st round is filled with guys that could end up as steals (Tomasino, McMichael, Pelletier, and Newhook are a few of the many).

This isn't the year to be bad though. Making the playoffs would be by far the best outcome.

 

[CycloneSweep]

That I can kind of agree with. There are a few guys I like in the top 10 (the big 2, Dach, and Turcotte) but I don't love early 1st. I do think the 2nd half of the 1st round is filled with guys that could end up as steals (Tomasino, McMichael, Pelletier, and Newhook are a few of the many).

This isn't the year to be bad though. Making the playoffs would be by far the best outcome.

Still think this is a great year to move our first but at the same time ..we are so far away that drafting using it might still be better, even with the weaker draft.

 

[McDNicks17]

I'm still a pretty big fan of this draft.

Maybe it's my OHL bias, but when a guy like Kaliyev is being talked about in the teens and you've got guys like Tomasino, McMichael, Harley, etc. being talked about later in the 1st, it seems pretty strong to me.

Lots of guys seemingly going under the radar. Take Thomas Harley, for example. I think he projects almost exactly the same as Noah Dobson does, but most people probably haven't even heard his name.