Yes and no. The best part of both their games is their skating ability. It would depend on the cost. I feel, like Jbow, Myers has all the tools. It just depends on if he can put them all together, something Jbow never really did in his time here. I'm just not sold on the kid ever really being an elite defenseman. Jbow looks great now, not sure if it was pressure here or maybe he's just a better supporting cast player. I wouldn't want Jbow back, but I prefer a more physical defense too.
Speculation: The 2014 1st
- Thread starter Sparky93
- Start date
Yes and no. The best part of both their games is their skating ability. It would depend on the cost. I feel, like Jbow, Myers has all the tools. It just depends on if he can put them all together, something Jbow never really did in his time here. I'm just not sold on the kid ever really being an elite defenseman. Jbow looks great now, not sure if it was pressure here or maybe he's just a better supporting cast player. I wouldn't want Jbow back, but I prefer a more physical defense too.
TheHudlinator
Registered User
1989
Registered User
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Want to know how I know you didn't watch last season? Or maybe you don't watch at all and just post your "rebuild trades" all over the main trade forums?
ReNeGaDe87
Comfortably Numb
Lunatik
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- Oct 12, 2012
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the answer was bolded in your post
I am a hockey fan but one thing I'm not is a fanboy. I'm sure you'll try to explain to me next how Jbow wasn't a complete disappointment during 85% of his time in Calgary!
Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper.
Beats By CoRD
Tommy Fresh
You may be a hockey fan but you're certainly not a Flames fan. Kinda hard to post credible trades here without having watched the team on a consistent basis, bud.
Lunatik
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- Oct 12, 2012
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I Pity The Foo
Registered User
Why not just Bart and Backs? Getting rid of our first this year would be such an incredibly poor decision, at it's not happening because Burke just said that we need to be building through the draft.
It's one thing to be a fan but you have to be somewhat realistic. I've been a Flame's fan since before Iggy and will be long after the rebuild. The way I see it, the rebuild is going increadably well but we've only got a handful of prospects with the potential to be more than bottom 6/ bottom pairing guys. It really made me laugh when a guy actually compared the progress of our rebuild, which we aren't even a full year into, and the Oilers! It's going to get worse, much worse before it gets better. Some people on home page seem to overvalue the least bit of potential and let it wash away years of disappointment in a heartbeat. As far as Jbow is conserned, I didn't say he was bad, I said he was a complete disappointment, there's a big difference. It's pretty hard to say, as a true Flame's fan, that you wouldn't pass on Jbow and keep Dion, if you had to do it over again. No amount of stats or coaching excuses will ever change that.
Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper.
Yeah it'll probably get worse. Especially after this year when we lose a few veterans. Next season will be the rock bottom I hope. I would've preferred more high end prospects before going into a rebuild, but it had to be done. Feaster delayed it as long as possible with hopes that some of his picks and improved drafting panned out.
But I would take Jbow anyday. Dion was a better hitter by a long shot and definitely had a better slapper, but Jbow is thebbetter skater and was better defensively. I could only imagine what it would be like to have both right now.
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Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
Look how good Jbo was under Hartley, and this year he's arguably a top 10 dman. Dion is no where near that. And Myers and Jbo play very different. The only thing they have in common is that they were former early draft picks and are curren top pairing dman, I guess you could say skating ability to, but Jbo is a cut above IMO. And minus points, Myers has been fantastic this year. He's been an absolute beast and returned to form and shown why he was taken so early. If you haven't watched a player this year, maybe you shouldn't comment on them beyond looking at their stat line.
We'd be damn lucky to get a guy who would develop into a Myers with our 1st this year, probably Ekblad will only dman better out of this draft. Debate if you will whether it would be worth it to kick Tspoon to get it done.
We'd be damn lucky to get a guy who would develop into a Myers with our 1st this year, probably Ekblad will only dman better out of this draft. Debate if you will whether it would be worth it to kick Tspoon to get it done.
Jbow might be the better player, I supported the move at the time but it's hard to deny that Dion wasn't the better player during Jbow's time with the Flames
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
Jbo is the better player, offensively he's been great and defensively it is not even a debate. Sutter mishandled him, that was 110% the reason for his struggles here. With that said, he still logged top minutes against the opposing teams best players and did what was asked of him.
Dion hits and has a canon. Defences know how to defend him and have for a while. He's somewhat of a one trick pony and he's prone to having brutal mental lapses in his own zone. If coached properly Dion can be an asset, but Jbo is much more well rounded.
I'm so sick of the coaching defense! That's been the main excuse since 04. God knows we've seen enough coaching changes and none of them seemed to make a difference. He played almost 30 minutes a night and the PP under Sutter. If he didn't like the system, surely a $7 million defenseman's strengths would still shine through logging that kind of minutes. Dion plays tough minutes too. While I'm not debating that Jbow is the better player, he simply wasn't during his time in Calgary. It's easy to blame coaching but chemistry is a huge factor and some people just don't have the mental strength to be "the guy"
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
Bouw was coached under 2 guys while in Calgary:
B. Sutter and Hartley. When Sutter was fired, J Bouws offensive game returned. Its pretty obvious it was a coaching, and a system issue.
Bosnian Beast
Formerly Janko Unchained
If JBouw had chemistry issues, why did he do so well with the team after Sutter was fired? Bouwmeester was good for Calgary, not $6 million good, but good. Sutter was detrimental to this team, and if Bouwmeester is going to play the system, he couldn't play his game, so to speak. I'd still keep JBouw over Dion every day. That isn't a knock on Dion, I just think Bouwmeester is a cut above as a player. So yeah, it is easy to blame coaching as the problem for Bouwmeester's troubles... because it was coaching. The evidence speaks for itself, I don't know why you are fighting that issue so hard.
1989
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- Aug 3, 2010
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I don't like repeating myself - do you want to know how I know you didn't watch last season?
Bouwmeester was on pace to hit 45+ points in his last season with Calgary; something he had not come close to doing since his days with Florida, something that he was familiar with in an increased offensive, 2-way system under Hartley. How strange that must be!
Believe it or not, being paid highly does not determine a person's value or ability very accurately. I cannot pay a child 10 million dollars a year and realistically expect that a youth with "near-limitless" potential that they should be the crux of my own success just because I reward them so; which is essentially what Darryl Sutter was doing when he made that trade to Florida in hopes of gambling on making the team a legitimate contender. I give him that it was a calculated risk, but dangerous and ultimately unsuccessful all the same.
At one point, Wade Redden's salary was 8 million dollars per season.
Let's not even talk about Bryzgalov's salary opposed to his actual worth in his ability and performance.
If you don't want to believe Sutter was a detriment to how Bouwmeester should have been playing (against his natural chemistry/style) then you may continue to do so but you are simply incorrect in this regard. Furthermore, chemistry has little to do with mental strength, and everything to do with "how things click" or sometimes, don't click with their surrounding environment. I would relate that highly towards both a defensive partner as much as I would a coaching system. Two persons could have weak mentalities but if they click together, they can overcome more difficult obstacles. Bouwmeester clearly did not have that benefit especially from the coaching side. You or I could be given a fully loaded tank therefore having the tools, but not given any training or proper direction on how to utilize this resource rendering it nearly useless in a battle which is how I liken Brent Sutter's ability as a coach in this regard.
Trying to argue that Bouwmeester was incompetent in his time here is incorrect - he wasn't doing great but he was not being burned consistently night-in and night-out. However, regardless of his defensive play, he was not producing points which was a key facet to one of the reasons Darryl Sutter brought him to the Calgary Flames. The team as a whole was quite bad in those years, as it was ill-equipped to play such a tight checking style. In retrospect, especially in the period post-Regehr, the best kind of style for this team was clearly a two-way style that did not lean too heavily to either offence or defence.
Why pay a man 7 million dollars and ask the world of him if all the directions you give him are contrary to his ability?
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
The only things Dion does better is hit, shoot and wear a Red Bull over Jbo.
Oh and Dion has a hotter wife, and is a better tipper at restaurants.
Oh and Dion has a hotter wife, and is a better tipper at restaurants.
MakeCgyGreatAgain
Registered User
Ummmmm how? We're in the 5th spot. GM's don't move their picks on hypothetically saying well we could be better. I can't believe any Flames fan would want to move their first ever top 5 pick.
Volica
Papa Shango
- May 15, 2012
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If Calgary hits a losing streak (very possible, of course), they'll be right beside the Sabres and Isles again; I wouldn't trade this pick...
Also, I'm assuming at the deadline that more players will be heading out the door; certainly Cammy, probably Stemps, maybe Butler... and quite possibly Stajan. Once any kind of veteran leadership Calgary once had is out the door; I don't see a lot of wins pilling up.
And I believe they trade these guys, simply because they aren't BB type players, none of them.
Also, I'm assuming at the deadline that more players will be heading out the door; certainly Cammy, probably Stemps, maybe Butler... and quite possibly Stajan. Once any kind of veteran leadership Calgary once had is out the door; I don't see a lot of wins pilling up.
And I believe they trade these guys, simply because they aren't BB type players, none of them.
