Player Discussion Thatcher Demko

[PuckMunchkin]

How many surgeries has Demko had that puts it in the “too many” category for you?

AFAIK He has had one major surgery in 2015. Double hip surgery.

From what I understand in 2022 he had a knee procedure that was described as being minor but it ended up f***in his whole season up. I dont know if his current hiatus is related to this same knee.

These two things are probably not unrelated. Hip mobility issues in 2014-15 -> Knee issues later.

I would say its not too many surgeries but the kind he has had and the frequency of groin, hip and knee issues that should not be ignored.

I think the best strategy is to use a high pick on a stud goalie prospect once that prospect has been identified. It’s no coincidence that Demko and Schneider are the two highest Canucks drafted goalies since Troy Gamble. Heck even Luongo and Cloutier were former first round picks. Increase your odds.

 

[geebster]

Can't we use Myers' knees to fix Demkos? If he says no then we know he doesn't care about the team enough to be re-signed.

 

[F A N]

It's not 'how many' surgeries, if Demko stages a complete recovery from all of them. But if he keeps getting injured and can't play 50-60 games, then you have to ask yourself whether or not the impact of all the injuries in cumulative.

So far, according to my calculations, he's had surgery on both hips; and injuries to his groin a couple of times; and also his knees. I can't see how this doesn't affect him by the time he hits 30-31.

You said “too many surgeries”. Are you talking about complications from surgeries then? Demko has already played 49 games this year. Realistically you want him playing somewhere between 50-55 games anyways.

His hip surgery was done early in his career. It’s a surgery that goalies these days can’t really avoid.

Unlike you, outside of another major injury, I don’t see why he can’t perform close to his prime when he’s 30-31 years of age.

 

[VanJack]

You said “too many surgeries”. Are you talking about complications from surgeries then? Demko has already played 49 games this year. Realistically you want him playing somewhere between 50-55 games anyways.

His hip surgery was done early in his career. It’s a surgery that goalies these days can’t really avoid.

Unlike you, outside of another major injury, I don’t see why he can’t perform close to his prime when he’s 30-31 years of age.

Sorry.....but if Demko can't stay healthy enough to play 60 games when he's in his mid-20's, it's hardly going to magically get better when he's over 30.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Sorry.....but if Demko can't stay healthy enough to play 60 games when he's in his mid-20's, it's hardly going to magically get better when he's over 30.

This is a bit outdated thinking.

With how the position has changed you do not want your goalies playing 60 games.

“I do believe you have to have a good stable of goaltenders,” Vegas president of hockey ops George McPhee said. “It’s really hard to rely on one guy. I think that model has changed over the last five or six years. The tandem approach is probably the best way to go. You’re going to have one guy that ends up being your guy, but he should play 50 games, not 65, and the other guy has to be good and be able to play.”

What's behind the NHL's growing goalie tandem trend?

There are more evenly split goalie tandems than ever before, including with some of the league's top teams.

theathletic.com

 

[F A N]

Sorry.....but if Demko can't stay healthy enough to play 60 games when he's in his mid-20's, it's hardly going to magically get better when he's over 30.

This is a bit outdated thinking.

With how the position has changed you do not want your goalies playing 60 games.

Yep. The target should be 50-55 games. If you have an elite goalie who struggles to stay healthy then you reduce his load and make sure he's fresh and healthy for the playoffs.

 

[Regal]

Sorry.....but if Demko can't stay healthy enough to play 60 games when he's in his mid-20's, it's hardly going to magically get better when he's over 30.

Demko has had 4 seasons as a starter. He’s been healthy in two, and is missing a couple weeks this year but will still play over 50 games. Only 1 of the 4 has he missed substantial time. I think you’re really overselling this injury business

 

[strattonius]

I think it's a minor tweak but because the team is comfortably leading the division they feel it's probably better to be extra cautious. Perhaps that's just the optimist in me speaking though.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Demko has had 4 seasons as a starter. He’s been healthy in two, and is missing a couple weeks this year but will still play over 50 games. Only 1 of the 4 has he missed substantial time. I think you’re really overselling this injury business

I disagree.

There definitely is a legitimate question mark there.

 

[Regal]

I disagree.

There definitely is a legitimate question mark there.

I don’t see how it’s a question mark yet until he needs to be re-signed. He’s not Brodeur but he’s not Raanta either. He’s given a starters workload for 3 of 4 seasons. You see where he’s at when his contract is up and go from there. I don’t think you change your goalie drafting strategy. They should always go for one if they really like him and don’t if they don’t. Goalies move far more so you don’t have to feel like you need to draft your next one. And with the team winning, you don’t move someone who is working for you to get ahead of it.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I don’t see how it’s a question mark yet until he needs to be re-signed. He’s not Brodeur but he’s not Raanta either. He’s given a starters workload for 3 of 4 seasons. You see where he’s at when his contract is up and go from there. I don’t think you change your goalie drafting strategy. They should always go for one if they really like him and don’t if they don’t. Goalies move far more so you don’t have to feel like you need to draft your next one. And with the team winning, you don’t move someone who is working for you to get ahead of it.

It is definitely something to be concerned about.

He keeps breaking down:

I agree that it is very unlikely to get better from here on out.

I dont know what drafting has to do with it. I am just replying to your post where you think his injuries are being made a big deal when they are not.



edit. Also. In todays league Brodeur isnt Brodeur. You cant do modern goaltending to your knees, hips and groin for 75 games per season and expect to stay healthy.

 

[Regal]

It is definitely something to be concerned about.

He keeps breaking down:

View attachment 838312
I agree that it is very unlikely to get better from here on out.

I dont know what drafting has to do with it. I am just replying to your post where you think his injuries are being made a big deal when they are not.



edit. Also. In todays league Brodeur isnt Brodeur. You cant do modern goaltending to your knees, hips and groin for 75 games per season and expect to stay healthy.

The poster was suggesting we try to draft a replacement. And so many of those injuries are minor. My point is that injuries are only a concern now if he’s missing too much time each season and so far that isn’t the case. It’s a weird thing to focus on when he has two more years under a great contract while in his 20s. See how he is those years and then his injuries are something to consider when it comes to re-signing him.

 

[Bobby9]

Love Demko on the team.

His injures make me respect goalies like Luongo and Kipper who used to put up 70 games a year

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The poster was suggesting we try to draft a replacement. And so many of those injuries are minor. My point is that injuries are only a concern now if he’s missing too much time each season and so far that isn’t the case. It’s a weird thing to focus on when he has two more years under a great contract while in his 20s. See how he is those years and then his injuries are something to consider when it comes to re-signing him.

I think we just disagree about the nature of Demkos injuries.

 

[archangel2]

do we know how long he is out for? Or is it still week to week?

 

[Nucker101]

Love Demko on the team.

His injures make me respect goalies like Luongo and Kipper who used to put up 70 games a year

I used to think this way too until I heard Kevin Woodley explain why even those guys would not be able to play 70 games these days. Teams move the puck laterally more than ever before.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Love Demko on the team.

His injures make me respect goalies like Luongo and Kipper who used to put up 70 games a year

If teams understood load management, Luongo would not have a reputation as a bad playoff goalie.

 

[EpochLink]

If teams understood load management, Luongo would not have a reputation as a bad playoff goalie.

Luongo wanted to start as many games as possible, it wasn’t until 2010-2011 season where they finally felled him in cause of Schneider.

 

[HairyKneel]

The evidence is also there that the goalies that play 60 games fall flat on their faces in the playoffs.

Like Vasilevskiy?

 

[HairyKneel]

If teams understood load management, Luongo would not have a reputation as a bad playoff goalie.

This isnt true. Guys like Hasek, Brodeur and Roy played just as much and closed the deal. Lu pissed his pants in a lot of playoff games.He was wildly inconsistent when it mattered.

You new to the game? Pretty poor take.

 

[theguardianII]

This isnt true. Guys like Hasek, Brodeur and Roy played just as much and closed the deal. Lu pissed his pants in a lot of playoff games.He was wildly inconsistent when it mattered.

You new to the game? Pretty poor take.

You must be from back east.

Do you know what happens in an airplane?
For most of the above mentioned careers they played back east.

In the Bruins series, IMO, it was Mr.Ego's fault for not managing Luongo's ice time better. The idiot asked a highly competitive player if he wanted to play. What answer did he expect?

The air travel, by the time of that series both Vancouver goalies had spent some 25,000 miles in the air. Gone through 7 cycles of depressurization and played 20 games in staggering humid conditions sometimes.

Pissed his pants either literally or figuratively could be very accurate for the amount of liquids both him and Schnides were forcing into their bodies. Schnides even got pulled for dehydration/cramps.
Goalies get hit with dehydration much more than any other player on the ice. These rapid and constant cycles of rehydration lower performances.
Vancouver isn't or wasn't known as the goalie graveyard just because every goalie got struck down with a curse, AIR TRAVEL, pressurized at 8000 feet. You know that scuba divers can't or shouldn't fly in a plane for 24 hours after a 60' dive. They can get the bends in the plane. Some probably do to some extent but most are careful because it is a warning.

Before the Bruins series even started the Canucks had flown/traveled over 27152 kms
The Bruins a gran total of 6116 kms

Over four times as long in distance and time dehydrating

This type of travel is a constant for Vancouver and extremely hard of goalies.

 

[theguardianII]

I think we just disagree about the nature of Demkos injuries.

Silence is deafening. They say knee, they say lower body, they say it's not a groin, they say nothing but they do say IT ISN'T HIS HIPS!!!!!!.

do we know how long he is out for? Or is it still week to week?

They have said he will be back for the playoffs.

Combined with the sudden departure during the game where there was no real evidence of a limp or difficulty moving either leg, he lifted both over the bench and had no balance problem like he would have if he was nursing a knee or groin injury. This indicates to me an internal pain or feeling. Grinding in the hip joint, maybe a "pulling or loose" feeling.

Looking at his past surgeries and injuries.
Dr. Guardian diagnoses a hip joint clean out, which just so happens to take 6 weeks for normal recovery.

This could be the end of Demko as a starter, maybe even his career.
Schneider went this way too. Played great but kept breaking down. Demko hasn't played a full season without serious time off, well .... ever.
He has had documented hip surgeries since 2013

If he was a boxer you might say he is playing with a glass jaw.

He can get through the end of the season with pain killers but at a cost of a future surgery. He might even excel with that help of being pain free during a game.

This could also be why there is now a bigger emphasis on defensive play at the cost of offence.

Where is he now is a good question.

If it is his time there should be no panic, Ian Clarke will have a couple of guys ready to play. Even if not experienced in the NHL so much. And the team defence corp are pretty stout for the future and can be improved upon if needed.

 

[HairyKneel]

You must be from back east.

Do you know what happens in an airplane?
For most of the above mentioned careers they played back east.

In the Bruins series, IMO, it was Mr.Ego's fault for not managing Luongo's ice time better. The idiot asked a highly competitive player if he wanted to play. What answer did he expect?

The air travel, by the time of that series both Vancouver goalies had spent some 25,000 miles in the air. Gone through 7 cycles of depressurization and played 20 games in staggering humid conditions sometimes.

Pissed his pants either literally or figuratively could be very accurate for the amount of liquids both him and Schnides were forcing into their bodies. Schnides even got pulled for dehydration/cramps.
Goalies get hit with dehydration much more than any other player on the ice. These rapid and constant cycles of rehydration lower performances.
Vancouver isn't or wasn't known as the goalie graveyard just because every goalie got struck down with a curse, AIR TRAVEL, pressurized at 8000 feet. You know that scuba divers can't or shouldn't fly in a plane for 24 hours after a 60' dive. They can get the bends in the plane. Some probably do to some extent but most are careful because it is a warning.

Before the Bruins series even started the Canucks had flown/traveled over 27152 kms
The Bruins a gran total of 6116 kms

Over four times as long in distance and time dehydrating

This type of travel is a constant for Vancouver and extremely hard of goalies.

Cool…….do they let you fly the planes as well? You seem like a crafty little guy.

What’s your excuse for his meltdowns in 2009, 2010 and letting the US back into the gold medal game?

LA won a couple cups. What was their travel like? Did Johnathan Quick have similar issues?

How long have you lived in the DTES?

 

[VanJack]

It's almost impossible to overstate the importance of goaltending coach Ian Clark to this Canuck organization. Casey DeSmith acknowledged after last night's contest that the opportunity to work with Clark has him playing the best goal in his career.

And it isn't just DeSmith. Thatcher Demko went out on a huge limb, imploring the Canucks to bring Clark back when it looked like he might bolt to another NHL organization. And even journeyman goaltender Spencer Martin, can probably thank Clark for extending his NHL career.

He was basically an average AHL goalie, before having the opportunity to work with Clark. And after being plucked off waivers from the Canucks by the Blue Jackets and being claimed again by Carolina, he recently received another one year contract extension from the 'Canes.

So who knows what Silovs, Tolopilo, Koskenuvo or Ty Young might become? But one thing is for certain. With the opportunity of working with Ian Clark, they'll be the best they can be and hit on what ever potential they have.

 

[Zippgunn]

You must be from back east.

Do you know what happens in an airplane?
For most of the above mentioned careers they played back east.

In the Bruins series, IMO, it was Mr.Ego's fault for not managing Luongo's ice time better. The idiot asked a highly competitive player if he wanted to play. What answer did he expect?

The air travel, by the time of that series both Vancouver goalies had spent some 25,000 miles in the air. Gone through 7 cycles of depressurization and played 20 games in staggering humid conditions sometimes.

Pissed his pants either literally or figuratively could be very accurate for the amount of liquids both him and Schnides were forcing into their bodies. Schnides even got pulled for dehydration/cramps.
Goalies get hit with dehydration much more than any other player on the ice. These rapid and constant cycles of rehydration lower performances.
Vancouver isn't or wasn't known as the goalie graveyard just because every goalie got struck down with a curse, AIR TRAVEL, pressurized at 8000 feet. You know that scuba divers can't or shouldn't fly in a plane for 24 hours after a 60' dive. They can get the bends in the plane. Some probably do to some extent but most are careful because it is a warning.

Before the Bruins series even started the Canucks had flown/traveled over 27152 kms
The Bruins a gran total of 6116 kms

Over four times as long in distance and time dehydrating

This type of travel is a constant for Vancouver and extremely hard of goalies.

Worst Excuse Ever.