Speculation: That Shero trades away too many picks and prosepcts, don't yinz think?

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't understand Shero's strategy. Look at Despres, what has he played 50 NHL games and will be a RFA after this season. Are they going to pay him $2 million based on such a small sample? He couldn't crack a roster spot with guys like eaton Niskanen and Engelland.

We have all of these young dmen, well play them. Obviously some of this is Bylsma's fault, but these players aren't forcing their way into the lineup.

They devote most of their picks for dmen, but we are still overpaying guys like Scuderi. That's frustrating.

It's frustrating that Crosby is going to spend his career playing with decent wingers at best.

1. We don't know what Despres will get. I hope he plays well enough to earn 2 mil per based on a small sample size.

2. Scuderi is not overpaid.

3. We have, and have had "better than decent" scoring line wingers that could've been used with Sid. Why do you think Bylsma earned so much contempt last year? It wasn't because Shero didn't provide the team with enough scoring wingers. It was because he didn't budge from KCD despite having other scoring wing options.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Shero has also added atleast two 3rds during that time (Michalek and Morrow trades).

I'm not exactly sure that trading better assets than a 3rd is a good argument for Shero.

 

[terex]

That trade cleared room for Despres/Bortuzzo, added the 3rd and Ruopp, cleared cap space, and did right by the player in getting him to a team he wanted to be on.

I really have no issues with the Michalek trade.

Also, to this point, I don't know if any prospects or picks have panned out after Shero has traded them. We'll see how Morrow and the 2nds for Murray come along in a few years. This is the only deadline that I think Shero gave up more value than he got back.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

That trade cleared room for Despres/Bortuzzo, added the 3rd and Ruopp, cleared cap space, and did right by the player in getting him to a team he wanted to be on.

I really have no issues with the Michalek trade.

Also, to this point, I don't know if any prospects or picks have panned out after Shero has traded them. We'll see how Morrow and the 2nds for Murray come along in a few years. This is the only deadline that I think Shero gave up more value than he got back.

You misspelled "Eaton" because that's who Shero was able to sign and who DB played over Des and Bort. Not to mention that Z is better than all 3 of them.

And I hate the "did right by the player" argument. He signed a 20M contract with a limited NTC to play for the Pens. If he wanted out Shero should have gotten the best deal possible, not a 3rd and mediocre prospect for a top 4 NHL Dman.

 

[JTG]

You misspelled "Eaton" because that's who Shero was able to sign and who DB played over Des and Bort. Not to mention that Z is better than all 3 of them.

And I hate the "did right by the player" argument. He signed a 20M contract with a limited NTC to play for the Pens. If he wanted out Shero should have gotten the best deal possible, not a 3rd and mediocre prospect for a top 4 NHL Dman.

I think at the time, Shero valued his cap space more than Michalek, because if you remember, he was reportedly in for Parise and/or Suter. That 4 million would have helped the cause if he succeeded.

 

[Til the End of Time]

there was still no reason to dump michalek when they did. parise gave the penguins absolutely no indication that he would sign with them, so making cap space for him was premature. after he signed with the wild, the story came out that the penguins weren't even close to signing him, that the pens had made their offer very early on and then hadn't heard anything from parise's camp for several days until he ultimately signed with the wild.

it was a bad, premature trade.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I think at the time, Shero valued his cap space more than Michalek, because if you remember, he was reportedly in for Parise and/or Suter. That 4 million would have helped the cause if he succeeded.

Oh I remember that he wanted to go All-In on ZP. But there was not need to trade Z for cap space before trying to sigh ZP. That's what I hate most about the move.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Asset management is one area Shero just isn't very good at. And in my opinion it's a big one in terms of what makes a GM great. That and blind faith in the wrong choice.

EDIT: oops, I meant wrong coach, not wrong choice...but you guys probably figured that one out coming from me.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Asset management is one area Shero just isn't very good at. And in my opinion it's a big one in terms of what makes a GM great. That and blind faith in the wrong choice.

Well, he did get Kunitz for Whitney, and Neal + Niskanen for Goligoski. We didn't give up anything for Z or Martin, and we got back Ruopp and Sundquist (3rd rounder), both guys with great potential for Z. Oh and the Stanley cup year he did get Guerin for the absolute last pick in the 3rd round in 2009, and Hall Gil for a 2nd. How about the 7th rounder to Washington for Vokoun that avoided a first round series loss this past year?

Yeah, terrible asset management.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Well, he did get Kunitz for Whitney, and Neal + Niskanen for Goligoski. We didn't give up anything for Z or Martin, and we got back Ruopp and Sundquist (3rd rounder), both guys with great potential for Z. Oh and the Stanley cup year he did get Guerin for the absolute last pick in the 3rd round in 2009, and Hall Gil for a 2nd. How about the 7th rounder to Washington for Vokoun that avoided a first round series loss this past year?

Yeah, terrible asset management.

he's good at most trades. BUt its hard to argue that he doesn't lose some assets that he didn't need to sometimes. The Strait situation and the Michalek deals are the two biggest examples. The Michalek thing I am ok with even if it wasn't perfect. He clearly wanted to do right by Michalek. The Strait and Lovejoy situation was clearly a mistake though. Not major, but there's no real argument to defend it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well, he did get Kunitz for Whitney, and Neal + Niskanen for Goligoski. We didn't give up anything for Z or Martin, and we got back Ruopp and Sundquist (3rd rounder), both guys with great potential for Z. Oh and the Stanley cup year he did get Guerin for the absolute last pick in the 3rd round in 2009, and Hall Gil for a 2nd. How about the 7th rounder to Washington for Vokoun that avoided a first round series loss this past year?

Yeah, terrible asset management.

I also seem to remember an epic deal that got us Hossa and Dupuis for a pile of crap, and a pretty good return for that Staal guy in a tight situation.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'll add that I believe Shero is one of the best - if not the very best - in the league at asset management.

Disagree? Name 5 GMs you think are better. I want people to look up GM transactions so they can get some perspective, because criticizing Shero based on asset management of all things has to be a product of looking at his moves in a total vacuum.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'll add that I believe Shero is one of the best - if not the very best - in the league at asset management.

Disagree? Name 5 GMs you think are better. I want people to look up GM transactions so they can get some perspective, because criticizing Shero based on asset management of all things has to be a product of looking at his moves in a total vacuum.

I certainly don't' think he's bad. I just don't get how he let the Strait thing happen. It just seems like such a careless move.

 

[JTG]

he's good at most trades. BUt its hard to argue that he doesn't lose some assets that he didn't need to sometimes. The Strait situation and the Michalek deals are the two biggest examples. The Michalek thing I am ok with even if it wasn't perfect. He clearly wanted to do right by Michalek. The Strait and Lovejoy situation was clearly a mistake though. Not major, but there's no real argument to defend it.

Yeah, the Strait deal was just something that was unavoidable really. You have like 9 defensemen who need to be on the NHL roster. Strait is exactly the reason why waivers exist. I didn't like losing him for nothing, but what are you going to do.

Lovejoy, I'm just not sure he was ever going to be anything more here than a depth defenseman, mainly because of how DB treats the young guys. Now Lovejoy never really did anything to stand out, but he also reiterated something Strait and Tangradi alluded to.

Lovejoy was a depth defenseman with Pittsburgh, often spending a lot of time in the press box as a healthy scratch. But it has been a different story in Anaheim as he has become a regular on the blueline. "I think that the biggest thing for me is confidence," Lovejoy said. "I found when I arrived here that the coaching staff, particularly Bob Woods, said play your game. You're going to make mistakes and you're going to go out the next shift even if you do make mistakes. And that was something I wasn't accustomed to in my previous career. At any time when I would screw up or make a mistake, I would be punished with ice time." He has nine assists with the Ducks in 26 games after being pointless in Pittsburgh in three contests.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah, the Strait deal was just something that was unavoidable really. You have like 9 defensemen who need to be on the NHL roster. Strait is exactly the reason why waivers exist. I didn't like losing him for nothing, but what are you going to do.

Lovejoy, I'm just not sure he was ever going to be anything more here than a depth defenseman, mainly because of how DB treats the young guys. Now Lovejoy never really did anything to stand out, but he also reiterated something Strait and Tangradi alluded to.

we could have traded lovejoy from the start instead of moving strait for nothing and then trading lovejoy right after only to bring in Eaton to replace them both. Or we could have sent Despres down for a bit considering he was barely playing anyway. It was completely avoidable.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Yeah, the Strait deal was just something that was unavoidable really. You have like 9 defensemen who need to be on the NHL roster. Strait is exactly the reason why waivers exist. I didn't like losing him for nothing, but what are you going to do.

Lovejoy, I'm just not sure he was ever going to be anything more here than a depth defenseman, mainly because of how DB treats the young guys. Now Lovejoy never really did anything to stand out, but he also reiterated something Strait and Tangradi alluded to.

I'm sure we'll hear the same thing from DJ when he's moved.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'm sure we'll hear the same thing from DJ when he's moved.

I still think DJ would have held onto a spot if he hadn't gotten hurt in 2010. He had really improved his skating enough to become a solid player only to immediately suffer a knee injury.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I still think DJ would have held onto a spot if he hadn't gotten hurt in 2010. He had really improved his skating enough to become a solid player only to immediately suffer a knee injury.

Same. He hasn't been given much of a chance since the injury to show anything tho.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I certainly don't' think he's bad. I just don't get how he let the Strait thing happen. It just seems like such a careless move.

I agree. Letting Strait go for nothing was a bad decision. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Same. He hasn't been given much of a chance since the injury to show anything tho.

I agree. He's clearly better than Glass, but he's just not "gritty" enough for Dan Bylsma's 4th line. Outplaying D'Agostini for the last 3rd line spot is probably his last chance to stick with us.

 

[Jacob]

Pretty sure Michalek wanted out. Either explicitly requesting a trade or showing it in his play/attitude. That wasn't really a hockey trade as much as it was a "get something for a guy that doesn't want to be here" trade. And he still got a pick and a decent prospect for him.

I only have a problem with giving up prospects if they end up turning into impact players, and thus far I can't think of any that have done that.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Pretty sure Michalek wanted out. Either explicitly requesting a trade or showing it in his play/attitude. That wasn't really a hockey trade as much as it was a "get something for a guy that doesn't want to be here" trade. And he still got a pick and a decent prospect for him.

I only have a problem with giving up prospects if they end up turning into impact players, and thus far I can't think of any that have done that.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was during the exit interview after the loss to Philly. Shero was adamant about wanting to keep Martin despite his garbage play because of his interview, but dealt Michalek very quickly.

 

[JTG]

Wouldn't be surprised if it was during the exit interview after the loss to Philly. Shero was adamant about wanting to keep Martin despite his garbage play because of his interview, but dealt Michalek very quickly.

Shero said as much to the media. He said he sat Michalek and Martin both down and asked them very blatantly if they wanted to be here. Martin said absolutely, Michalek...not so much.

 

[Burgs]

Wouldn't be surprised if it was during the exit interview after the loss to Philly. Shero was adamant about wanting to keep Martin despite his garbage play because of his interview, but dealt Michalek very quickly.

This was in some article about Martin from last season. Shero asked both Martin and Michalek if they wanted to be traded out of Pittsburgh after our 2012 playoff exit. Martin declined and wanted to prove himself. I don't think they ever explicitly confirmed Michalek wanted out but considering when he was traded and especially where to, it looks like he wanted out, and Shero accommodated him at the next opportunity.

 

[DrDangles]

I think the gambles he's taken are worth it. We need to do everything we can to win now, having a deeper prospect pool doesn't help that. We have a respectable pool in most aspects as it is. If Bennett continues to impress and somebody like Zlobin pans out to be a serviceable NHLer down the road we're sitting pretty.

The one thing that really irritates me is the organization's fear of using the younger guys on the big club. I'd be willing to bet Dumoulin doesn't see anymore than a handful of games this season, if that. Instead they'll put Bortuzzo in that 7th spot, who really doesn't have much of a future with us IMO. I'd also be willing to bet Bennett sees most of his time in the bottom 6 while getting the occasional shift with Geno. Staple him on that line and let him learn.