Teemu Selänne vs John Bucyk

[Ziostilon]

This thread has gotten WAY too stat heavy. If anyone out there got to see Bucyk play and can describe his game in comparison to Selanne's...much appreciated.

I find this method much more effective to simply running a career stats check. We can all do that on Wikipedia. You have to watch a player to know their strengths and weaknesses.

My dad was a Bucyk fan and claims he was one of the best left wings ever. He was overshadowed in his career playing with Orr and Espo, but he still swears this is the case. He says he was truly a complete player.

Selanne is outstanding, but he is certainly more one dimensional. At least according to pops. I never really saw him play.

thats what im going with. but the poll speaks differently.

and its starting to become a Bure vs Selanne thread

 

[Axxellien]

John Bucyk:

John Bucyk was an integral part of the Boston UKE Line, one of the most powerful, most successful attacking units in NHL History!!!

 

[RECsGuy*]

I am not sure how much of a resurgence Selanne has had in the playoffs. When Anaheim won the cup, Selanne was their best regular season performer, but was overshadowed in the playoffs by Pronger, Niedermayer, Getzlaf, Pahlsson, Giguere and MacDonald, and arguably even Perry, Moen

Anaheim - 2007 Playoff Scoring

1. Ryan Getzlaf 21-7-10-17
2. Chris Pronger 19-3-12-15
3. Cory Perry 21-6-9-15
4. Teemu Selanne 21-5-10-15 (though still tied for 2nd in points)
5. Andy McDonald 21-10-4-14

out of 28 players to play at least 1 game that postseason for the Ducks

again, you were saying?

 

[Seanconn*]

Well...

He simply needed to have a better career than he did. We're talking about Teemu Selanne, not Joe Sakic or Jaromir Jagr here.

76 Goals for 132 points in his rookie season, a record that will likely never be broken, ever.

how is Selanne not comparable to those players? look at his points, and how many seasons he had injuries.

jagr and sakic are better, i'll bow to that, but they are all definitely in the same league.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I'd take Selanne over Bucyk, Bure or Kariya without much hesitation.

 

[Blades of Glory]

I'd take Selanne over Bucyk, Bure or Kariya without much hesitation.

If Kariya hadn't succumbed to injuries, he would have been well ahead of all of those players. But he did, and career-wise, I'll agree with you whole-heartedly.

 

[Merya]

If Kariya hadn't succumbed to injuries, he would have been well ahead of all of those players. But he did, and career-wise, I'll agree with you whole-heartedly.

Hah! As if Selanne hasn't had his share of injuries. They started even before he came to the NHL. (missed a season in Finnish league) The difference is that Selanne, after having had his knee reconstructed, returned to elite level at the age of 35. This (and well, simply being more skilled) is what makes Selanne far better than Kariya.
When they played together, Kariya benefited more from it than Selanne, as was proven during Paul's absence.

 

[Big Phil]

Is it just me or has Selanne become an extremely underrated player in NHL history? No Paul Kariya in 1998 and Selanne leads the NHL in goals and is 3rd in Hart voting? I love Johnny Bucyk, but he couldn't do this. And despite his advantage physically, it still doesn't make up for what Selanne brought offensively.

Kariya was often thought of as the better player of that duo which might explain his swelled head and holding out in 1997. We were all wrong though. Selanne has had the better career, by far.

 

[RECsGuy*]

Is it just me or has Selanne become an extremely underrated player in NHL history?

1285 GP - 635 G - 688 A - 1323 PTS

Per 82-Game Schedule: 40.52 goals - 43.90 - 84.42 PTS

1 Stanley Cup ('07 in a vital role)
4 Post-Season All-Star Team Selections (1st Team x 2 ['93,'97] , 2nd Team x 2 ['98,'99])
2 Goal-Scoring Titles ('98 - 52 , '99 - 47)
Calder Trophy Winner ('93)
Regular Season Rookie Goal-Scoring Record Holder ('93 - 76)

*stats incl. playoffs

To answer the original question: Yes.

 

[seventieslord]

If the measure is regular season goal-scoring dominance, then Selanne all the way. Otherwise, Bucyk. And since there is so much more to hockey than just regular season goal-scoring, I say Bucyk.

 

[jepjepjoo]

If the measure is regular season goal-scoring dominance, then Selanne all the way. Otherwise, Bucyk. And since there is so much more to hockey than just regular season goal-scoring, I say Bucyk.

What makes Bucyk a better playoff performer than Selanne?

 

[hfboardsuser]

What makes Bucyk a better playoff performer than Selanne?

Just about everything.

Finishes

Bucyk:

-7th in goals, 6th in points (1969)
-2nd in goals, 3rd in points (1970)
-1st in goals, 3rd in points (1972)
-4th in goals, 4th in points (1974)

Selanne:

-13th is his best goals finish in a playoffs (1997)
-9th is his best points finish in a playoffs (2007)


Career

Bucyk: 124 GP, 103 pts (0.83 PPG)
Selanne: 105 GP, 72 pts (0.69 PPG)


Hardware

Definitely not substantial, but Bucyk has 2 Cups and four Finals appearances and Selanne has two Finals appearances and one Cup. Niether has a Conn Smythe.

 

[Big Phil]

Definitely not substantial, but Bucyk has 2 Cups and four Finals appearances and Selanne has two Finals appearances and one Cup. Niether has a Conn Smythe.

I can't think or see another time when Selanne made the finals other than his Cup winning year in 2007, but I do see your point

 

[jepjepjoo]

Just about everything.

Finishes

Bucyk:

-7th in goals, 6th in points (1969)
-2nd in goals, 3rd in points (1970)
-1st in goals, 3rd in points (1972)
-4th in goals, 4th in points (1974)

Selanne:

-13th is his best goals finish in a playoffs (1997)
-9th is his best points finish in a playoffs (2007)


Career

Bucyk: 124 GP, 103 pts (0.83 PPG)
Selanne: 105 GP, 72 pts (0.69 PPG)


Hardware

Definitely not substantial, but Bucyk has 2 Cups and four Finals appearances and Selanne has two Finals appearances and one Cup. Niether has a Conn Smythe.

In case you missed it here's part of my earlier post on the subject:

Bucyk playoff stats without Esposit & Orr:

51gp 5g 17a 22p 0.43ppg 0.098gpg

With Espo & Orr:

73gp 36g 45a 81p 1.11ppg 0.49gpg

Difference: 0.68ppg 0.39 gpg

Edit: Bucyk has never lead his team in playoff scoring and only been second on his team once in his 14 playoff seasons.

Edit2: Where you finish in playoff scoring league wide is irrelevant it tells more about your team's performance.

 

[hfboardsuser]

Edit: Bucyk has never lead his team in playoff scoring and only been second on his team once in his 14 playoff seasons.

And Selanne didn't even do that. So, then, you'd have to agree Bucyk > Selanne in the playoffs, yes?

 

[jepjepjoo]

And Selanne didn't even do that. So, then, you'd have to agree Bucyk > Selanne in the playoffs, yes?

People who pull "facts" out of their ass are awesome!

92-93 2nd
98-99 1st
05-06 1st
06-07 2nd

 

[kenabnrmal]

Nayld is one of the site's very best posters, but I think he's pretty off-base here. Some perspective is needed when looking at Selanne's playoff record.

Admittedly I'm a huge fan of Selanne's, which does skew my view of him. However, it also means I followed his playoff performances very, very closely. Lets break down the seasons one-by-one and see whether or not he was a leader on his team...

92-93: 2nd in points, leads team in goals with 4 in 6 games. As a rookie, not sure what more you'd want from him. LEADER

96-97: Leads team in goals, third in pts. It was the Selanne-Kariya show, he gave the team exactly what they needed. LEADER

98-99: Four points, four games, two goals. Again Selanne-Kariya show, they did all they could do to carry that franchise. LEADER

00-01: His first playoff run with the Sharks he played with a broken thumb or wrist (don't remember which it was). It made it impossible for him to shoot. He was more used as a pp decoy than anything. 6 games played, no goals, 2 assists...ppg, it's a disaster, but if you knew what was going on and you followed the series at the time you knew Selanne did all he could. ANOMALY

01-02: 5 goals in 12 games, one behind Marleau, a better pace than the regular season. Knee was beginning to take it's toll on him, but he was still a "leader". LEADER

03-04: Circumstances with the Avs were laughable...his injured knee and lack of a role made it impossible for him to have much of any contribution to the team. A complete and total anomoly, but it seriously hampers his playoff ppg. ANOMALY

05-06: Conference Finals run with the Ducks he led the team in points and goals. He was the best forward on the team. LEADER

06-07: Cup win. He was anything but "a passenger", finishing second on the team in points. More than that, his goals were timely as hell. You won't find anyone who followed that team closely during the playoffs that would describe him as a "passenger" on that team. He was vital to that Cup win. LEADER, but debatable.

07-08: first round loss...the entire Ducks team was outplayed by the Stars...Getzlaf was the only forward with more points, no one played well. SUB_PAR

08-09: There was a steep drop off in this run, but he wasn't relied upon to be an offensive leader. The Ducks were a one-line team and leaned heavily on Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry. Selanne's linemates were not effective, and he was primarily used as a pp specialist. His four goals were third on the team. SUPPORTER

Again, I think ppg or gpg is a terrible way to judge a player's playoff performance, but if you are going to play the game then you HAVE take out the two seasons that were complete anomalies (00-01 and 03-04). You end up with a 32 goal pace and a 72 point pace averaged over his career. The seasons where he was expected to be an offensive leader, he absolutely was. Now look, he hasn't been an absolute playoff demon but he's certainly not a poor playoff performer.

And I don't care to compare the numbers to Bucyk or Bure or anyone else, really. I didn't watch their playoff performances like I watched Selanne's, so it wouldn't be fair. Just thought I'd add some perspective to Selanne's playoff record.

 

[Hawker14]

Selanne without a doubt in my mind.

 

[Merya]

06-07: Cup win. He was anything but "a passenger", finishing second on the team in points. More than that, his goals were timely as hell. You won't find anyone who followed that team closely during the playoffs that would describe him as a "passenger" on that team. He was vital to that Cup win. LEADER, but debatable.

Timely indeed, No Selanne in game 5 against Detroit, and Ducks don't have a cup.