Value of: Tear down the Rangers

[Shootertooter]

Man I'm glad you said it. I'm not a rangers fan but that line up just looked ugly.. rebuild starts and end with Lundqvist . if the goal is to rebuild he will be to old by the time its done. Rebuilding on the fly does not work just ask us leaf fans and watch the mess Vancouver will be in. The rangers just need to luck out on a solid trade and a bounce back year from krider, and pick up a solid ufa. I know that's 3 things but they still have a real solid team to me. I almost fell like they do need a few new faces to ignite the team again.

Agreed, Hank is the guy you move if you are tearing it down. Reiterate, the guy you move first.

 

[Shootertooter]

3RD Round Pick from Oilers for Kevin Klein?

I'm not saying Klein is an elite d man by any means but right now he is our 2nd best, will be top 3, right side and is cost controlled for two more years or so. A third gets you Staal. KK gets a late first or more realistically a pair of 2nds and a 3rd. He is one of the guys I would hold on to.

 

[Shootertooter]

I wouldn't classify gorto as a moron. He has to clean up sathers mess. The only bad thing he did was not sell yandle at the trade deadline. We were not in on stank is or sub ban. I think he should move Nash to improve the team for the future. There are at least 5 or 6 teams that should be willing to listen. Maybe he moves one of the centers for a good young d man. I'd be very surprised if the Rangers don't shed salary or make a move today.

 

[bernmeister]

We suck. We need picks and prospects. Everyone is available (young players will require overpayments of course). Let the chaos begin

for fun inquiry, fine, but as practical matter the whole roster is not available, esp the young care -- Kreider, Miller, Hayes McIlrath -- barring major overpayment. Everyone else, depending on who they are I want either the top dollar caused by competitive bidding for a player in demand (like Brassard) or I just want fair value, ballpark, in some cases, will take less to move a contract.

The time to start throwing around valuable pieces was this afternoon.

Well unfortunately Gorton is a moron, but he could still make plenty of moves as free agency begins.

Wrong x 2.
Who were we gonna trade for for the guys dealt during this period? Who did we WANT?
Subban, good but overrated, don't wanna pay the price
Weber, not with that contract and breakdown factor
Larsson, NY - NJ do not deal
Hall - yes, but not for McD, the likely ask (if we send the Donagh to the Oil, Draisatil MUST be in the return).

gorton is a friggin GENIUS and we are fine if he waits this out.
He is not gonna get greedy like Slats and overpay his hand.
I agree with tagline in OP avatar, fire AV

One of our defensemen not named Suter and something for Stepan?

It is established that Dumba and the right + gets it done! We're waiting... wanna suggest the +?

The important part of a teardown is building a tank roster.
Moulson & Franson for Glass?

Interesting premise but not necessary here
you can have Glass for free

Wish we'd offered McD+ for Subban.

other than Subs being RD, prefer McD, esp taking into account cap hit, etc.
If I am spending Subban $, I prefer a guy like Doughty or a Trouba/Hedman going forward

3RD Round Pick from Oilers for Kevin Klein?

Way too little.
He commands like a 20th 1st,
IF a lesser 1st, then add
remember, solid stable RD on great contract are sky's the limit demand

A couple of crap picks and a random prospect for Kreider.
Followed by Rangers fans asking for the moon and taking back salary.
We've done this before.

let's give it a shot w/an open mind, but obviously NY's best assets, its jewels, require overpayment

Nash (2 mill retained)
For
Grabovski (who rags put on LTIR and reap the benefit of cap relief)
?

possible but I think we fetch more

Man I'm glad you said it. I'm not a rangers fan but that line up just looked ugly.. rebuild starts and end with Lundqvist . if the goal is to rebuild he will be to old by the time its done. Rebuilding on the fly does not work just ask us leaf fans and watch the mess Vancouver will be in. The rangers just need to luck out on a solid trade and a bounce back year from krider, and pick up a solid ufa. I know that's 3 things but they still have a real solid team to me. I almost fell like they do need a few new faces to ignite the team again.

Agreed, Hank is the guy you move if you are tearing it down. Reiterate, the guy you move first.

No.
don't be locked into a mindset that is mutually exclusive

Hank will stay as long as he wants and his skills allow before deterioration, whenever that will ultimately be, but apparently, not immediately, let alone anytime 'soon'.

fact that he is a netminder, a solitary position less connected to the skater intensive Fs and Ds, also reinforces this fact.

 

[Shootertooter]

If the Rangers are going to really rebuild having an 8million $ goalie getting older does not help them accomplish anything. Obviously he would need to agree to be moved. He loses value with each passing day. Keeping Hank only makes sense if you think you are a solid contender, they can't think that.

 

[WesMcCauley]

One of our defensemen not named Suter and something for Stepan?

As much as i want a new RH defensemen its just not worth giving up Stepan if we cant replace him. If we could land Stammer(which we cant anymore) it would be easy yes but if we lose Step or Brass or center depth suck.

If NYR is rebulding Hank, Nash, Zucc and Brassard go first. Dont see it happening...

 

[Lapa]

It is established that Dumba and the right + gets it done! We're waiting... wanna suggest the +?

Greenway? Olofsson? Folin? What are your needs?

 

[phlocky]

We suck. We need picks and prospects. Everyone is available (young players will require overpayments of course). Let the chaos begin

I love this on these boards "young players will require an overpayment". LOL, no they won't, if, IF, they were traded they'd return fair market value and nothing more. In all probability you'd get back LESS than fair market value and MOST likely far less than you'd think.

 

[Shootertooter]

I love this on these boards "young players will require an overpayment". LOL, no they won't, if, IF, they were traded they'd return fair market value and nothing more. In all probability you'd get back LESS than fair market value and MOST likely far less than you'd think.

Pretty certain he meant you don't deal your youth unless it is worth it for you to do so. And saying they would bring less value is equally absurd to saying they bring more, you should have seen that

 

[TGWL]

You want your 2nd back? What do Canes get?

They got to laugh at us during the initial trade. Isn't that enough? If we trade for our second back, that would look sooooo bad. Although, it's hard to imagine that trade looking any worse.

 

[SnoopDogg]

Evander Kane for Rick Nash

Terrible attitude vs terrible contract, what do you think?

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Rangers need a multi year rebuild/retool or whatever people want to call it.

Start with trading Klein. Good depth Dman but he's 31 and will be a shadow of himself in a few years.

Then move onto Rick Nash. Might just be smarter to keep him though and hopes he bounces back.

If the team wants to get anything significant in return to jump start a rebuild then Brassard, Stepan and Zuccarello gotta be on the table.

McDonagh doesn't go anywhere unless an overwhelming offer is made.

Staal + Girardi have negative value. Best they could hope for is a bad contract with a shorter term because the deals were front-loaded (similar to how Toronto unloaded Phaneuf)

 

[haveandare]

Nash's value is insanely low in these proposals. Grabovski to buy out? Kane? I'd rather keep him than either, no question at all.

NYR don't need a tear down either imo - get a new coach, lose G and Staal as painlessly as possible. That'd be a huge difference for the better.

 

[TGWL]

Evander Kane for Rick Nash

Terrible attitude vs terrible contract, what do you think?

I'd do it. Attitude aside, the grit is nice.

 

[AZviaNJ]

I'm not saying Klein is an elite d man by any means but right now he is our 2nd best, will be top 3, right side and is cost controlled for two more years or so. A third gets you Staal. KK gets a late first or more realistically a pair of 2nds and a 3rd. He is one of the guys I would hold on to.

don't worry, Chia would probably throw McDavid in for KK.

 

[BPD]

Evander Kane for Rick Nash

Terrible attitude vs terrible contract, what do you think?

Done. 100% done. All we need to do is keep him out of the clubs.

 

[bigdog16]

Done. 100% done. All we need to do is keep him out of the clubs.

Good luck with that...

 

[bernmeister]

As much as i want a new RH defensemen its just not worth giving up Stepan if we cant replace him. If we could land Stammer(which we cant anymore) it would be easy yes but if we lose Step or Brass or center depth suck.

If NYR is rebulding Hank, Nash, Zucc and Brassard go first. Dont see it happening...

Stepan earns NMC after this season.
That will not be allowed
He will be traded. Ignore this reality all you want, but it WILL happen, only ? is sooner or later.

It is smarter to deal him sooner not only from a planning perspective, but in case there is unlikely but mathematical possibility he is injured. Then we'd have a problem moving him.

Greenway? Olofsson? Folin? What are your needs?

I plead partial ignorance on your less profile pieces, Please feel free to state your case.

As to needs, we must
extend our young core - Kreider, Miller, Skjei, McIlrath - who are not moved unless we can't say no

consolidate our right side of 30 vets - Stepan, Brassard, Zuc
will also consider McD and Nash if price is right

I say consolidate because we must control the expansion draft, and not let it control us, we want to move known talent for youngsters w/legit potential/picks. The more we can return guys we don't have to protect, or fewer guys who need to be protected, we are winning our short term strategy

as to positional needs, IMO they should be largely subordinated to getting best player available, regardless of position. However, exceptions apply.
eg Taylor Hall
Hall = McDonagh are ballpark = talent, but factor in contract and supply and demand of Ds more in need than Ws, we would not have made that deal for McD, instead seeking something around Draisatil

We have LD, need RD
set at G
Fs - see how it shakes out, project we have 3 prospects for our 4th line, we add Buchnevich, we should be ok

We'd love Tuch w/Dumba, but that is a little much.
what are your needs NY can add w/Stepan?

Evander Kane for Rick Nash
Terrible attitude vs terrible contract, what do you think?

There is competition for Nash, several variations, w/w'out retention
we could take problem child Kane off your hands, but it would have to be worth our while...

something around
2 of Brassard/Stepan/Nash
for
Kane + Reinhart

+ pieces for cap fit?

 

[KingDeathMetal]

I love this on these boards "young players will require an overpayment". LOL, no they won't, if, IF, they were traded they'd return fair market value and nothing more. In all probability you'd get back LESS than fair market value and MOST likely far less than you'd think.

100% correct. Every time a trade happens involving big name players, time and again we see overpayment for older, established players, and underpayment for youth.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

Also, this whole "tear down the Rangers because they're going to be awful and need rebuilding" business is so overblown.

We have an excellent, battle tested core of Top 6 forwards that have been near the top of the league in terms of offense the past two seasons.

We still have the best goalie in the league as far as I'm concerned. Not going to debate that, but even if you think his time has passed, Lundqvist still gives us the most consistently great season-by-season performances.

Most of our core is still young and productive.

Our top three prospects, Skjei, Buchnevich, and McIlrath, are with the team now and have extremely bright futures. Two are LD and RD.

Do we have problems? Definitely. Staal and Girardi eat up a ton of cap space, we still need to acquire a proper partner for McDonagh, our bottom 6 needs shoring up (penalty killing suffered after Hags left), and the D in general needs to improve. And of course, the prospect pool is thin, but that can be corrected mighty quick. Euro and College signings, acquiring draft picks, drafting right (i.e. Sean Day becoming the latest 3rd round NYR draft steal ala Buchnevich and Duclair, hopefully), are all ways to make up for the fact that we never have 1st rounders. Plenty of good teams who never have a strong prospect pool, and plenty of horrible teams that have been rebuilding for ages. Farm systems argument has always been overstated.

But the roster we have is still very good, more than capable of having another 100+ point season and going deep in the playoffs. The question is, do we need to improve in order to have a realistic shot at winning the Cup? Yes, definitely. Doesn't require a rebuild. One or two savy trades, and smart FA signings.

Keep the faith, brothers, keep the faith.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Also, this whole "tear down the Rangers because they're going to be awful and need rebuilding" business is so overblown.

We have an excellent, battle tested core of Top 6 forwards that have been near the top of the league in terms of offense the past two seasons.

We still have the best goalie in the league as far as I'm concerned. Not going to debate that, but even if you think his time has passed, Lundqvist still gives us the most consistently great season-by-season performances.

Most of our core is still young and productive.

Our top three prospects, Skjei, Buchnevich, and McIlrath, are with the team now and have extremely bright futures. Two are LD and RD.

Do we have problems? Definitely. Staal and Girardi eat up a ton of cap space, we still need to acquire a proper partner for McDonagh, our bottom 6 needs shoring up (penalty killing suffered after Hags left), and the D in general needs to improve. And of course, the prospect pool is thin, but that can be corrected mighty quick. Euro and College signings, acquiring draft picks, drafting right (i.e. Sean Day becoming the latest 3rd round NYR draft steal ala Buchnevich and Duclair, hopefully), are all ways to make up for the fact that we never have 1st rounders. Plenty of good teams who never have a strong prospect pool, and plenty of horrible teams that have been rebuilding for ages. Farm systems argument has always been overstated.

But the roster we have is still very good, more than capable of having another 100+ point season and going deep in the playoffs. The question is, do we need to improve in order to have a realistic shot at winning the Cup? Yes, definitely. Doesn't require a rebuild. One or two savy trades, and smart FA signings.

Keep the faith, brothers, keep the faith.

I don't know who you think you are, infusing logic and reason into HFboards.


Because obviously the Rangers suck and are not even going to make the playoffs with a roster consisting of Zuccarello, McDonagh, Nash, Kreider, Stepan, Brassard, Lundqvist, Buchnevich, etc.


I'm glad expectations are so low for the Rangers this year, it'll be less pressure for them. I'm going to enjoy another 100+ point season this year. And had the Rangers pulled an Islanders at the end of the regular season and rested a few guys to play the Panthers, I guarantee they make it out of the first round. They're not NEARLY as bad as people are making them out to be. Just need to stay away from PIT

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

3RD Round Pick from Oilers for Kevin Klein?

Nash (2 mill retained)
For
Grabovski (who rags put on LTIR and reap the benefit of cap relief)
?

Let me answer both of these proposals in one, simple word: No.

 

[phlocky]

Stepan earns NMC after this season.
That will not be allowed
He will be traded. Ignore this reality all you want, but it WILL happen, only ? is sooner or later.

It is smarter to deal him sooner not only from a planning perspective, but in case there is unlikely but mathematical possibility he is injured. Then we'd have a problem moving him.



I plead partial ignorance on your less profile pieces, Please feel free to state your case.

As to needs, we must
extend our young core - Kreider, Miller, Skjei, McIlrath - who are not moved unless we can't say no

consolidate our right side of 30 vets - Stepan, Brassard, Zuc
will also consider McD and Nash if price is right

I say consolidate because we must control the expansion draft, and not let it control us, we want to move known talent for youngsters w/legit potential/picks. The more we can return guys we don't have to protect, or fewer guys who need to be protected, we are winning our short term strategy

as to positional needs, IMO they should be largely subordinated to getting best player available, regardless of position. However, exceptions apply.
eg Taylor Hall
Hall = McDonagh are ballpark = talent, but factor in contract and supply and demand of Ds more in need than Ws, we would not have made that deal for McD, instead seeking something around Draisatil

We have LD, need RD
set at G
Fs - see how it shakes out, project we have 3 prospects for our 4th line, we add Buchnevich, we should be ok

We'd love Tuch w/Dumba, but that is a little much.
what are your needs NY can add w/Stepan?




There is competition for Nash, several variations, w/w'out retention
we could take problem child Kane off your hands, but it would have to be worth our while...

something around
2 of Brassard/Stepan/Nash
for
Kane + Reinhart

+ pieces for cap fit?

There is one problem with moving guys that need protection in the expansion draft for young players/prospects who are exempt, EVERY team is looking at this scenario and they likely aren't going to take on more players they could lose and give up quality assets that would be exempt. Doing what you suggest is the dream of every team right now.

 

[phlocky]

Also, this whole "tear down the Rangers because they're going to be awful and need rebuilding" business is so overblown.

We have an excellent, battle tested core of Top 6 forwards that have been near the top of the league in terms of offense the past two seasons.

We still have the best goalie in the league as far as I'm concerned. Not going to debate that, but even if you think his time has passed, Lundqvist still gives us the most consistently great season-by-season performances.

Most of our core is still young and productive.

Our top three prospects, Skjei, Buchnevich, and McIlrath, are with the team now and have extremely bright futures. Two are LD and RD.

Do we have problems? Definitely. Staal and Girardi eat up a ton of cap space, we still need to acquire a proper partner for McDonagh, our bottom 6 needs shoring up (penalty killing suffered after Hags left), and the D in general needs to improve. And of course, the prospect pool is thin, but that can be corrected mighty quick. Euro and College signings, acquiring draft picks, drafting right (i.e. Sean Day becoming the latest 3rd round NYR draft steal ala Buchnevich and Duclair, hopefully), are all ways to make up for the fact that we never have 1st rounders. Plenty of good teams who never have a strong prospect pool, and plenty of horrible teams that have been rebuilding for ages. Farm systems argument has always been overstated.

But the roster we have is still very good, more than capable of having another 100+ point season and going deep in the playoffs. The question is, do we need to improve in order to have a realistic shot at winning the Cup? Yes, definitely. Doesn't require a rebuild. One or two savy trades, and smart FA signings.

Keep the faith, brothers, keep the faith.

I agree. The only REAL problem with the Rangers is that they took their **** at winning the cup over the past few seasons (and the time was right to do so with the roster they had/have) and they paid the price in "futures". Those futures they traded away would be perfect players to come in now and add the depth they need however they just aren't there. The Rangers need to make 1 or 2 smart trades, sign 1 or 2 mid level UFAs and restock their prospect pool over the next few years. When those prospects are ready in a few years your core may be older but they will still be very good players and they'll LEAD the new group of youth.

The Rangers are still a damned good team. They may not be legit cup contenders for the next 3 years but be patient, restock from within, make some minor tweaks, you'll be legit contenders again very soon. Few teams have proven to be able to stay at the top for very long. If it only takes the Rangers 3-4 years to be back contending for the cup then you can consider yourselves very lucky

 

[Clown Fiesta]

If the Rangers are going to really rebuild having an 8million $ goalie getting older does not help them accomplish anything. Obviously he would need to agree to be moved. He loses value with each passing day. Keeping Hank only makes sense if you think you are a solid contender, they can't think that.

Their window is closed, it was closed last off-season. They went the wrong direction after losing in the finals and this past season showed it. Lundqvist was great at times keeping them from falling off ala Montreal. But his playoff performance was abysmal, and instead of it being considered a fluke I think it's going to be the norm in the years to come.

This was the time to be bold and make sweeping changes, when the finals features a rookie goaltender and a first year starter you have to seriously wonder what you're doing paying one 8m a year.

Adding a useless tit like E. Steal shows how delusional management is.

Only untouchables if I were GM are Skjei, McIlrath, Miller, Zuccarello, Buchnevich, and my draft picks. I'd want young cost controlled players and picks in return, a few larger contacts could be absorbed if it meant getting rid of Staal and Girardi.

A few miserable years and you're back on your feet. Every organization needs a purge occasionally. Some like the Rangers need it more often because of the market they're in and the management trying to stop the bleeding with bandaids.