Speculation: Taylor Hall trade/contract talk (part III)

[Setec Astronomy]

Canucks fan here

Does this start a conversation?

Eriksson(cap reasons), Olli, Goldobin, 1st 2019/20

Just say the first round pick. The answer is no.

 

[Cucumber]

Just say the first round pick. The answer is no.

Eriksson, Goldobin, 1st 19/20, 1st 2020?

I don't think you guys are getting a Maker/whoever else Colorado has level prospect for an ufa.

 

[ScottyK]

Eriksson, Goldobin, 1st 19/20, 1st 2020?

I don't think you guys are getting a Maker/whoever else Colorado has level prospect for an ufa.

Youre not getting Hall for spare parts.

 

[Triumph]

A team without Hall, Vatanen, Greene and probably others is not trying to win next year.

You've assumed that all of those people will be gone, or won't be replaced in some other way. Hall, yes, I agree, he's gone. Shero isn't going to get the rope to fail next year, and I doubt if they hired a new GM that he would either.

 

[Oneiro]

You've assumed that all of those people will be gone, or won't be replaced in some other way. Hall, yes, I agree, he's gone. Shero isn't going to get the rope to fail next year, and I doubt if they hired a new GM that he would either.

I do think Shero has even more rope than Hynes and certainly way more than the fanbase can tolerate. Ownership did the full court press promoting this season but I interpret that as an attempt to capitalize on fan enthusiasm, as opposed to an intrinsic need to compete. Maybe I'm wrong - they've never discussed expectations much beyond wanting to build a true, perennial contender. I would not be surprised if going into next season is a low for attendance/renewals regardless of what happens in the summer. Once you lose Hall, only wins are going to do it for the fanbase now.

There are unforeseen possibilities like the Subban deal. And looking at pending UFAs, there are quite a few interesting names. I'll give you that. It's entirely possible they replace Hall's impact by platoon with a Granlund+Hoffman/Toffoli or something and the cap hits don't look that bad post a new TV deal.

But the team is getting younger by default. You have to think at least two more spots go to Smith and an Anderson, Maltsev, etc next season. It's a roster that is no longer a tweak or two away from playoff contention on the basis of experience at key positions alone. They need consistent over-performance / demonstrable growth from too many pieces at every position. It's fair and necessary to make that ask of certain guys - Hischier, Bratt, Zacha, Severson, Blackwood - but no one has proven that they can do it yet. If they bring in Pietrangelo and got a Kreider/Granlund/Toffoli/whoever, maybe I'll feel differently. That is a far-fetched scenario but it is the magnitude of transformation they need to be taken seriously going into next year. Oh yeah...there's the goaltending thing too.

 

[beekay414]

Don't kill me here, just asking because I know how edgy we all are with this Hall stuff but, if we ate all of Hall's salary in a trade with Dallas, is a Jake Oettinger-Thomas Harley return doable? No draft picks involved either. I'm assuming there's really no shot at landing Oettinger at all...

If not and we ate all of Hall's salary in a Dallas deal, what's the best package we'd potentially receive? I just think Dallas will be all-in so they could be had.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Don't kill me here, just asking because I know how edgy we all are with this Hall stuff but, if we ate all of Hall's salary in a trade with Dallas, is a Jake Oettinger-Thomas Harley return doable? No draft picks involved either. I'm assuming there's really no shot at landing Oettinger at all...

If not and we ate all of Hall's salary in a Dallas deal, what's the best package we'd potentially receive? I just think Dallas will be all-in so they could be had.

We can’t eat all of Hall’s salary. You are only allowed to retain 50%

 

[beekay414]

We can’t eat all of Hall’s salary. You are only allowed to retain 50%

Gotcha, thanks. So say we retain the 50%, what could we pull? Obviously what I wrote above goes out the window lol.

 

[markog]

Vancouver send their 1st to Tampa (if they make the playoffs).

 

[Ivan13]

Good to know. A few folks around here were making it sound like he wasn’t all that good, or worth being a major piece in this potential deal.

I was confused because I thought your fanbase was high on him.

I'll ty to expand on the Avs prospects and defense in general if I may.

Makar - obviously not going anywhere. Already the #1 D for the team with with just over 30 games under his belt.

Girard - just re-signed to a sweethart deal, should be a #3D for the Avs going forward.

EJ - shell of his fromer self. Looks complety cooked at the moment and his minutes will need to be reduced quite quickly.

Cole - coming off of double hip surgery, looks slow and not all that great.

Zadorov - ranges from amazing (last few games where he put McDavid and Matthews in his back pocker for example) to awful. Last playoffs Tkachuck was running around in game 1, then Z pasted him alongside the boards, and he just wasted away. Can be a #3 or a #6 any given night. Has all the tools to be a top pairing stay at home D, but struggles mentally at times. I have a hard time seeing Sakic trading him knowing that the two I mentioned above look cooked. Our record with him in the lineup, versus when he is out is stagerring as well.

Graves - personally, I think he is not very good. Always an adventure. A #6 in a pinch, but not someone who should play as an every day NHLer.

Rosen - better than Graves personally. There is some upside to his game IMHO. Solid puck mover, and could be a 3rd pairing D.

Now about the prospects that are worth mentioning:

1. Byram (LD) - franchise D upside. Not going anywhere.

2. Timmins (RD) - personally I have a hard time seeing him traded. Not because he is an untouchable, but rather because he was so highly thought off before his injury and is just getting back to hoecky after missing a yaer and a half. At one time he was ranked higher than Cale, won WJC defender of the tournament, was an absolute workhorse for Soo in the OHL and almost made the Avs out of camp. Fast forward a year and a half and he is doing well in the AHL after being likely the Avs best D in camp. His perceived value around the league is surely still hindered thanks to the injury, which is more than fair, and I have a hard time seeing Joe trading him when his value is low, just as I have a hard time seeing your team hanging their hat on him as the main piece coming back. Too muc risk for both sides, Sakic could look like a moron for trading away a future top pairing D for a rental, and Shero might look like a moron for trading Hall for a guy who ends up like Marc Savard.

3. Helleson (LD) - now this is a guy I think the Devils would covet highly. 2nd round picl last draft, USNTDP product. A modern defensively minded defenseman. Very good defensive instincts, good skater, good outlet pass. Plays within his limits and has great size for a defenseman. He reminds me of the junior version of Brendan Carlo. It remains to be seen if he develops the same way at Boston College.

4. Danila Zhurlavyov (LD) - plays regulary for the leaders of the KHL's eastern conference. 6' puck mover who plays about 13 mins per night for Ak Bars, and so far he collected 7 points in 28 games. It is quite impressive for a WJC eligible defensemen to play so much on a top KHL team. Should be a big part of Russia's blueline at the WJC.

5. Justus Annunen (G) - goalie who plays for Kaarpat in the Finish elite league. Has been absolutely amazing this season. Broke the SM-Liiga shoutout record this season by posting 5 in a row. Will be the starter for Finland at the WJC and looks to be the next Finnish starter in the NHL.

6. Adam Werner (G) - has been doing fine playing behind a terrible team in his first pro season in NA. Has great size for a gooalie and is progressing nicely so far. I have my reservations about him having starter potential, but he is on track to become a decent backup. But you never know with goalies.

7. Alex Newhook (C) - I doubt he is off any interest to the Devils given the organizational depth at center.

8. Sampo Ranta (LW) - has amazing tools, from skating, to size, physicality and shot, but a 2 cent toolbox. Honestly, he could be a 20 goal scorer or not make it at all. It all hangs on if he can process the game fast enough as he graduates. Will be part of the Finnish WJC team. Reminds me of Armia.

9. Nikolai Kovalenko (RW) - tenacious middle 6 forward. Plays a simple north - south game. Always around the net, and skilled to boot. Plays an impotant role for Loko despite being only 20 years old.

 

[Call Me Al]

good writeup, thanks!

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Don't kill me here, just asking because I know how edgy we all are with this Hall stuff but, if we ate all of Hall's salary in a trade with Dallas, is a Jake Oettinger-Thomas Harley return doable? No draft picks involved either. I'm assuming there's really no shot at landing Oettinger at all...

If not and we ate all of Hall's salary in a Dallas deal, what's the best package we'd potentially receive? I just think Dallas will be all-in so they could be had.

Harley is definitely one of the guys I had in mind if we're talking about Dallas

Since they already have Lindell, Heiskanen, and Klingberg, maybe he would be available

 

[FinnishDevil]

Just a thought.

Any team that could be interested and has cap for a package of Hall & Vats? I'd extend Sami for max 4 yrs but I dont see him staying here. Could any of the teams linked to Hall use Vats? I mean he's a top 4 in this league any day.

I think Sami alone could get us late 1st or something like that, but I'd be willing to package them for something good.

 

[haak84]

My prediction is that Hall is traded to Montreal for Primeau + prospects. Their coach is fired, Hynes is brought in as interim coach. Price goes down with a season ending injury. Kinkaid takes over. Hall, Hynes and Kinkaid lead Montreal to the playoffs. Only to be eliminated in 5 games by the Lightning.

Heard it here first.

 

[MartyOwns]

Take this a step further, then. What if Hall understands that Shero has already moved a number of the chess pieces into enviable position in spite of this year’s problems. Hall is a smart guy. What if he says to Shero, this year we suck, so trade me, get as much as you can, address some of the obvious shortcomings like the goaltending, and let’s talk again in July. It’s happened before. Who says trading Hall has to be the end of his career in New Jersey?

yeah i’ll literally **** his **** in a ********* with **** sauce and ***********-***** if he does that for us

 

[haak84]

yeah i’ll literally **** his **** in a ********* with **** sauce and ***********-***** if he does that for us

Just read the article but i did not write it

I don’t see that happening but also would not be entirely shocked if it did.

 

[NJDevs26]

Thing with the swapidie doo theory is, the player gives up an extra year on his contract if he signs with us after getting traded. So it’s not as feasible now as it was when Thackuk (I think) did it.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

My prediction is that Hall is traded to Montreal for Primeau + prospects. Their coach is fired, Hynes is brought in as interim coach. Price goes down with a season ending injury. Kinkaid takes over. Hall, Hynes and Kinkaid lead Montreal to the playoffs. Only to be eliminated in 5 games by the Lightning.

Heard it here first.

 

[haak84]

Thing with the swapidie doo theory is, the player gives up an extra year on his contract if he signs with us after getting traded. So it’s not as feasible now as it was when Thackuk (I think) did it.

He’s not going to get the asking price he wants long term. Shave off a year and bump up his yearly salary. Works better for both groups.

I can see the point the article is trying to make because the Devils look like a good fit for Hall in terms of team make-up.

Plus the Devils and Hall are really good at winning the offseason.

Just not sure dumping Hall is worth the risk of losing the overall #1 pick.

 

[devilsblood]

I'll ty to expand on the Avs prospects and defense in general if I may.

Makar - obviously not going anywhere. Already the #1 D for the team with with just over 30 games under his belt.

Girard - just re-signed to a sweethart deal, should be a #3D for the Avs going forward.

EJ - shell of his fromer self. Looks complety cooked at the moment and his minutes will need to be reduced quite quickly.

Cole - coming off of double hip surgery, looks slow and not all that great.

Zadorov - ranges from amazing (last few games where he put McDavid and Matthews in his back pocker for example) to awful. Last playoffs Tkachuck was running around in game 1, then Z pasted him alongside the boards, and he just wasted away. Can be a #3 or a #6 any given night. Has all the tools to be a top pairing stay at home D, but struggles mentally at times. I have a hard time seeing Sakic trading him knowing that the two I mentioned above look cooked. Our record with him in the lineup, versus when he is out is stagerring as well.

Graves - personally, I think he is not very good. Always an adventure. A #6 in a pinch, but not someone who should play as an every day NHLer.

Rosen - better than Graves personally. There is some upside to his game IMHO. Solid puck mover, and could be a 3rd pairing D.

Now about the prospects that are worth mentioning:

1. Byram (LD) - franchise D upside. Not going anywhere.

2. Timmins (RD) - personally I have a hard time seeing him traded. Not because he is an untouchable, but rather because he was so highly thought off before his injury and is just getting back to hoecky after missing a yaer and a half. At one time he was ranked higher than Cale, won WJC defender of the tournament, was an absolute workhorse for Soo in the OHL and almost made the Avs out of camp. Fast forward a year and a half and he is doing well in the AHL after being likely the Avs best D in camp. His perceived value around the league is surely still hindered thanks to the injury, which is more than fair, and I have a hard time seeing Joe trading him when his value is low, just as I have a hard time seeing your team hanging their hat on him as the main piece coming back. Too muc risk for both sides, Sakic could look like a moron for trading away a future top pairing D for a rental, and Shero might look like a moron for trading Hall for a guy who ends up like Marc Savard.

3. Helleson (LD) - now this is a guy I think the Devils would covet highly. 2nd round picl last draft, USNTDP product. A modern defensively minded defenseman. Very good defensive instincts, good skater, good outlet pass. Plays within his limits and has great size for a defenseman. He reminds me of the junior version of Brendan Carlo. It remains to be seen if he develops the same way at Boston College.

4. Danila Zhurlavyov (LD) - plays regulary for the leaders of the KHL's eastern conference. 6' puck mover who plays about 13 mins per night for Ak Bars, and so far he collected 7 points in 28 games. It is quite impressive for a WJC eligible defensemen to play so much on a top KHL team. Should be a big part of Russia's blueline at the WJC.

5. Justus Annunen (G) - goalie who plays for Kaarpat in the Finish elite league. Has been absolutely amazing this season. Broke the SM-Liiga shoutout record this season by posting 5 in a row. Will be the starter for Finland at the WJC and looks to be the next Finnish starter in the NHL.

6. Adam Werner (G) - has been doing fine playing behind a terrible team in his first pro season in NA. Has great size for a gooalie and is progressing nicely so far. I have my reservations about him having starter potential, but he is on track to become a decent backup. But you never know with goalies.

7. Alex Newhook (C) - I doubt he is off any interest to the Devils given the organizational depth at center.

8. Sampo Ranta (LW) - has amazing tools, from skating, to size, physicality and shot, but a 2 cent toolbox. Honestly, he could be a 20 goal scorer or not make it at all. It all hangs on if he can process the game fast enough as he graduates. Will be part of the Finnish WJC team. Reminds me of Armia.

9. Nikolai Kovalenko (RW) - tenacious middle 6 forward. Plays a simple north - south game. Always around the net, and skilled to boot. Plays an impotant role for Loko despite being only 20 years old.

Clearly the injury would have to check out, but Timmins to me sounds like a good option. If I'm NJ I'd swing for the fence rather then get a more solid but lower upside return.

Helleson seems to have a similar profile to a bunch of guys we drafted last year.

 

[Blackjack]

Thing with the swapidie doo theory is, the player gives up an extra year on his contract if he signs with us after getting traded. So it’s not as feasible now as it was when Thackuk (I think) did it.

I wonder if anyone is really going to give Hall 8 years.

 

[Nubmer6]

I wonder if anyone is really going to give Hall 8 years.

CAN anyone (if we don't)? I don't know the rules about a player changing teams mid-season.

 

[Blackjack]

CAN anyone (if we don't)? I don't know the rules about a player changing teams mid-season.

Yeah, I thought they could, maybe I’m wrong though.

 

[regulahbread]

CAN anyone (if we don't)? I don't know the rules about a player changing teams mid-season.

They can, Stone signed an 8 year extension with Vegas after he was traded.

 

[Ivan13]

Yeah, I thought they could, maybe I’m wrong though.

A contract must be signed before the trade deadline passes if it's for 8 years.

And just a question for you guys, didn't Taylor say he won't re-sign before fielding offers on the open market?