Taylor Hall 2015/2016 season thread: Read OP and Post #581

[s7ark]

The other thread was garbage. Let's try again.

First off, let's put this right out there. This thread will be heavily moderated and the thread bans will be liberal. Calling out posters instead of posts will result in thread bans. Posting misleading, untrue, or information you can't back up with a source will result in posts being deleted and probably thread bans. Please help out with this thread by reporting posts that break these, or other HF rules instead of debating the post and creating more work for the mods.

Sound ok? Let's go.

I expect Hall is going to bounce back into the form that had him top 10 in the league in scoring. He isn't without flaws but he is still one of the top LWs in the game, imo.

Click to read more...

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Hall's a great player and I fear that fans will run him out of town one day.

Yes, he has some downsides, but so does every player. Nobody is perfect. He's a top LW in the game, behind Ovechkin and Benn.

Yet, it's this strange obsession with grit> skill that will be his potential downfall in Edmonton and it has nothing to do with him. Combined with the "character problems" myths, it's a headache and I feel for the guy.

It's amazing how five years people were pumped and now some of the same are wanting to tar and feather him and say he's immune due to "free passes".

This is a guy that makes the team better. If we traded Hall, guess what? we have a hole on the LW spot. A giant one.

He's a fine young player and people should be supportive of one of the best on the team.

 

[Dorian2]

- by D2

Hall is an enigma.



Anyways...are these discussions being fueled by a couple of sub par preseason games?

Hall still makes mistakes that he has had before, but he's had nothing properly coached out of him yet.

I put full stock in TM rectifying Hall's bad habits and enhancing his many good ones as well. I think Hall is one of the leaders on the ice, among others, that will take the game to a brand new level this year.

That's what I'm hoping anyways.

Great call dude! Looks like your hopes have been fulfilled. You know what you're talking about.

 

[Connor Mcdavey*]

Nothing against the kid, I'm sure he's a good guy, but I don't think his playstyle is one that will take us to the promise land. Too many turnovers in his game and lack of elite finishing ability. I hope TC turns this around though, if we want to progress as a team we need everybody playing responsible with and without the puck

 

[TheRebuild]

Two words:

Injury Prone.

Hall has never even come close to playing a full 82 games, and I doubt he ever will. If the Oilers brass were smart, they'd be looking to hit a home run in a trade with him while he's still young and has some value.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Two words:

Injury Prone.

Hall has never even come close to playing a full 82 games, and I doubt he ever will. If the Oilers brass were smart, they'd be looking to hit a home run in a trade with him while he's still young and has some value.

75 Games isn't close?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Nothing against the kid, I'm sure he's a good guy, but I don't think his playstyle is one that will take us to the promise land. Too many turnovers in his game and lack of elite finishing ability. I hope TC turns this around though, if we want to progress as a team we need everybody playing responsible with and without the puck

You can practically say the same about Nail Yakupov.

 

[Replacement*]

Two words:

Injury Prone.

Hall has never even come close to playing a full 82 games, and I doubt he ever will. If the Oilers brass were smart, they'd be looking to hit a home run in a trade with him while he's still young and has some value.

Not really. I think Hall has a solid frame. I think he withstands a lot. The trouble is his nature of game and being somewhat easy to catch with a heat seeking missile guided check, and his apparent reticience to get lumber up occasionally when that happens results in him getting targeted more.

Glenn Anderson played a somewhat similar game on rushes than Taylor Hall but people thought twice about rubbing out Anderson because he could a vicious dirty player. Both he and Messier were dirty players. Just the way it is but it commanded that neither were easy targets and opponents were reluctant to have facial surgery to get too involved.

Hall seems to be a really nice guy. But he gets upset sometimes at the nature of hockey is instead of accepting it more. Given usual NHL officiating and random and inconsistent sanctions its quite necessary for NHL players to self protect.

Hall needs to do more of that. So do a lot of players on this club. The team needs to develop some more ugly response and reaction. It costs more penalties, sure, but it backs off opponents a bit.

 

[nabob]

Two words:

Injury Prone.

Hall has never even come close to playing a full 82 games, and I doubt he ever will. If the Oilers brass were smart, they'd be looking to hit a home run in a trade with him while he's still young and has some value.

He played 45/48 in the lockout season then 75/82 the next season. And yes he hurt his knee last year and played hurt for a lot of it.

Players get hurt. It's a fact. Players who are the top targets of other teams and play top minutes get hurt more.

Trading a top 3 LW in the league because you are afraid he might get hurt is plain wrong. He had a shoulder injury. It's fixed now. Stronger than it was before. Potter stepped on his head in warmup, not going to re-injure that. His knee seems to be healed as he isn't playing with a brace like he did last year. The guy is a physical specimen which should also help reduce the number of injuries he gets.

 

[nabob]

Nothing against the kid, I'm sure he's a good guy, but I don't think his playstyle is one that will take us to the promise land. Too many turnovers in his game and lack of elite finishing ability. I hope TC turns this around though, if we want to progress as a team we need everybody playing responsible with and without the puck

So all we need to do is find 23 perfect players, shouldn't be that hard. Might as well start by trading away the best player on the team

 

[Raoul Duke]

You can practically say the same about Nail Yakupov.

Except Hall puts up points.

 

[BarDownBobo]

I can't remember which guy I was listening to on 1260 this week(most likely Gregor) but I think they completely nailed it when talking about Hall. They basically said that when Hall hits the ice for a game instinct takes over and he reverts back to a playstyle where he wants to do everything by himself which inadvertently has a negative effect on his linemates.

 

[Aerrol]

Except Hall puts up points.

Yeah, Yakupov is easily my favourite player on the team but it's laughable to compare him to Hall. The gulf in their accomplishments to date is wider than the grand canyon

 

[Zaddy]

I think the problem with Hall is that he tries to do too much on his own and we have yet to find two guys who can really click with him on a line. Our forward group is just really imbalanced and that's going to keep being a problem for us until it's adressed I think. For Hall to really thrive I think he needs a real good, defensively responsible two-way C coupled with a strong two-way winger who can do the dirty work and dig out pucks in the corners. We don't really have either of those two types on our team.

What I would be interesting in trying though is to get Nuge back with Hall now that he's a bit older and see if he can be that two-way C and maybe he lets Hall be the driver on that line. Then you can stick McDavid with Eberle, whom I think he would have great chemistry with, and Pouliot. That would be a great 2nd line I feel. Problem is only who the 3rd wheel on the Hall-Nuge line would be. That's where I'd like a trade to happen. Drai/Yak+pick or whatever is necessary to get a deal done for a guy who fits the bill as a big, two-way RW.

Then we'd finally have some nice balance in our top-six. I feel like it's either that or you trade Hall for a strong two-way LW in the mold of a Saad or Hossa who can be on a line with McDavid and Drai, but it'd kinda suck losing an elite point producer like Hall. I think something has to happen though, this forward group is going nowhere no matter how skilled they are if they don't start playing both sides of the puck while being willing to do the hard, dirty work necessary to win hockey games.

 

[Replacement*]

I can't remember which guy I was listening to on 1260 this week(most likely Gregor) but I think they completely nailed it when talking about Hall. They basically said that when Hall hits the ice for a game instinct takes over and he reverts back to a playstyle where he wants to do everything by himself which inadvertently has a negative effect on his linemates.

Not really a fair comment on a player that has 157 assists thus far and is one of the better passers on this team and who goes to hard areas and provides outlets and rushes the puck in games where the team has nothing else going.

Hall may have games where he goes into some tunnel vision, gets frustrated, and starts to skate into checks but he has lots of games when he's the resilient player on this club and the least likely to disappear, exhibition games notwithstanding.

tbh even having a convo around Hall during exhibition season is somewhat skewing.

For Spector to state that Hall has a negative impact on team mates is unfair and not team mate would share that opinion.

Finally, Hall in this offense, that has lacked coherent coaching, and a coherent break out system is the most likely player to rush the puck up ice and be an outlet to get the puck moving up ice. I think the amount of times he is stopped is a function of the amount of times he is rocketing up center ice. Hard to do what he does at full speed in the NHL as well. But he's the Oiler most likely to break contain and has been for years.

He's a PPG player at the highest level of hockey on Earth that's played his career on a bad team. Really, all considering he's knocked it out of the ballpark.

 

[Dorian2]

Not really. I think Hall has a solid frame. I think he withstands a lot. The trouble is his nature of game and being somewhat easy to catch with a heat seeking missile guided check, and his apparent reticience to get lumber up occasionally when that happens results in him getting targeted more.

Glenn Anderson played a somewhat similar game on rushes than Taylor Hall but people thought twice about rubbing out Anderson because he could a vicious dirty player. Both he and Messier were dirty players. Just the way it is but it commanded that neither were easy targets and opponents were reluctant to have facial surgery to get too involved.

Hall seems to be a really nice guy. But he gets upset sometimes at the nature of hockey is instead of accepting it more. Given usual NHL officiating and random and inconsistent sanctions its quite necessary for NHL players to self protect.

Hall needs to do more of that. So do a lot of players on this club. The team needs to develop some more ugly response and reaction. It costs more penalties, sure, but it backs off opponents a bit.

True about Anderson Very dirty...in a sneaky way as well. You mess with Andy, your goalie was going to pay for it the next time he crashed the net at 200 mph. Unfortunately the game has changed a bit since then. Hall would be looking at suspensions and such.

 

[Replacement*]

True about Anderson Very dirty...in a sneaky way as well. You mess with Andy, your goalie was going to pay for it the next time he crashed the net at 200 mph. Unfortunately the game has changed a bit since then. Hall would be looking at suspensions and such.

Its interesting you say that. I was looking at a recent hilite reel footage of Mark Messiers career and the amount of blatant elbows was astounding. I mean intentional, full elbows and obviously getting the elbow in at last moment.

People forget how dirty these players were. You're never more likely to excuse it as a fan when then when your club is winning championships.

But it was part of hockey then and to a lesser extent its part of hockey still. Just the tactics have changed. You can't target a guys head anymore but you can get a stick up when getting checked like Ryan Smyth often did. Its important that you not make it look like a crosscheck and that theres no forward motion in it. In effect you are using stick just as a guard and charging player is charging right into it. It looks somewhat inadvertent that way even though it isn't..

Anyway back to the thread topic Taylor Hall needs to be defending himself more and stay in the lineup. He's too valuable to the team not to. I don't mind him taking the odd penalty but I want those to be aggressive or self protection penalties. Not an angry tap on someones stick.

 

[Hockey Buddha]

Not really. I think Hall has a solid frame. I think he withstands a lot. The trouble is his nature of game and being somewhat easy to catch with a heat seeking missile guided check, and his apparent reticience to get lumber up occasionally when that happens results in him getting targeted more.

Glenn Anderson played a somewhat similar game on rushes than Taylor Hall but people thought twice about rubbing out Anderson because he could a vicious dirty player. Both he and Messier were dirty players. Just the way it is but it commanded that neither were easy targets and opponents were reluctant to have facial surgery to get too involved.

Hall seems to be a really nice guy. But he gets upset sometimes at the nature of hockey is instead of accepting it more. Given usual NHL officiating and random and inconsistent sanctions its quite necessary for NHL players to self protect.

Hall needs to do more of that. So do a lot of players on this club. The team needs to develop some more ugly response and reaction. It costs more penalties, sure, but it backs off opponents a bit.

Quoted for truth. Anderson always carried his stick recklessly high, like it was a sabre, and Messier would occasionally elbow someone into next week during a collision, just because. Both players created room for themselves on the ice.

 

[Evilsports]

I like Hall but I'm also hesitant to put him on an untouchable pedestal, at this point. I have high hopes that this coaching staff and management will be able to find a recipe that works with him, and if not he has numbers and a contract that should be an easy sell.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

IMO he needs to do less with the puck and play with equivalent focus/effort on defense and offense. He does way too much with the puck for his skill level, he needs to keep turnovers down on his side and force way more of them. He has a valuable skillset, I just don't think he's using it effectively to help his team win as much as possible. Too focused on points and what he thinks he has to do to make a name for himself.

If he beasted on the puck like Hossa and let Mcdavid feed him the puck, I could see him as one of the most valuable wingers in the league for sure.

 

[Replacement*]

IMO he needs to do less with the puck and play with equivalent focus/effort on defense and offense. He does way too much with the puck for his skill level, he needs to keep turnovers down on his side and force way more of them. He has a valuable skillset, I just don't think he's using it effectively to help his team win as much as possible. Too focused on points and what he thinks he has to do to make a name for himself.

If he beasted on the puck like Hossa and let Mcdavid feed him the puck, I could see him as one of the most valuable wingers in the league for sure.

Well lets see what Hall does with some top flight table service. We have to remember that this club has not had a premier transition D for hall to work with and has not played with a generational best yet is still a career PPG player and consistently found high in NHL pt totals.

on the other side he's had the benefit of a club that cheats on offense and doling out zonestarts to certain lines.

Still, I see Hall flirting with topten scoring again this year. I'd like to see him more active in all round play but he's our deep guy. Guy would have to skate miles to be most likely forward up, and back.
The positive thing is this guy has always been patient with coaches and listens to them. Unfortunately perhaps, even to Eakins, which set Hall back in development of other facets of his game. Like it did for everybody.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Since this thread has been made and I have been critical of Hall I may as well throw my $0.02 in on this.

As far as I'm concerned these are my issues with Hall, keep in mind that this is my take, not fact, I am not trying to pass it off as fact, but this is my take.

1) His decision making and execution with the puck leaves me frustrated at times. Why does it frustrate me? Because he will make a handful of brain dead looking plays and then follow them up with a few absolute elite level plays. The skill is there but IMO he needs to be better at this to reach his full potential.

2) He tries to do too much too often. He does not use his linemates to his or their advantage enough IMO. A prime example of this is one play that I recall last season, he was entering the zone with speed, made a quick little pass to RNH and RNH passed it ahead for him to get it in stride with speed and bang there was a perfectly executed goal. I'd like to see him play the way that the Pouliot-RNH-Eberle line does, with little chips and passes, if he could add that to his game the tandem of Hall and McDavid would be unstoppable in open ice. In some ways he reminds me of Hemsky because of this because of his skill level but his difficulty geling with linemates not names Eberle.

3) I don't think that he is as good defensively as he could be, he has the speed, size and a long stick to really give opposing players hell in that regard.

4) Lastly I hope that he has some of what Schultz had when he flew in to stand up for Klefbom, this is probably the thing that disappoints me the most about Hall since he was a lot more feisty when he first came into the league.

 

[Vanqu1sh]

Well lets see what Hall does with some top flight table service. We have to remember that this club has not had a premier transition D for hall to work with and has not played with a generational best yet is still a career PPG player and consistently found high in NHL pt totals.

on the other side he's had the benefit of a club that cheats on offense and doling out zonestarts to certain lines.

Still, I see Hall flirting with topten scoring again this year. I'd like to see him more active in all round play but he's our deep guy. Guy would have to skate miles to be most likely forward up, and back.
The positive thing is this guy has always been patient with coaches and listens to them. Unfortunately perhaps, even to Eakins, which set Hall back in development of other facets of his game. Like it did for everybody.

I agree that we have to see what he brings this year. So far I see a player that could be way better than he is. Most of the good plays he makes are just raw skill, it would be nice to see some smart plays incorporated in to his game to complement that skill as well... more efficiency

 

[harpoon]

Not really a fair comment on a player that has 157 assists thus far and is one of the better passers on this team and who goes to hard areas and provides outlets and rushes the puck in games where the team has nothing else going.

Hall may have games where he goes into some tunnel vision, gets frustrated, and starts to skate into checks but he has lots of games when he's the resilient player on this club and the least likely to disappear, exhibition games notwithstanding.

tbh even having a convo around Hall during exhibition season is somewhat skewing.

For Spector to state that Hall has a negative impact on team mates is unfair and not team mate would share that opinion.

Finally, Hall in this offense, that has lacked coherent coaching, and a coherent break out system is the most likely player to rush the puck up ice and be an outlet to get the puck moving up ice. I think the amount of times he is stopped is a function of the amount of times he is rocketing up center ice. Hard to do what he does at full speed in the NHL as well. But he's the Oiler most likely to break contain and has been for years.

He's a PPG player at the highest level of hockey on Earth that's played his career on a bad team. Really, all considering he's knocked it out of the ballpark.

The end.

 

[McShogun99]

I think Hall will have a short career because of his playing style. He's had 2 healthy seasons out of 5 and injuries just get worse as you get older.