Tavares vs. Crosby

[daver]

Who had the more dominant season as a 16 year old?

Crosby - Led the Q in points, second in goals, CHL player of the Year

Tavares - Led the O in goals, second in points, CHL player of the Year

I think its Crosby based on the relative dominance over his competion. He clearly was the best player in the Q.

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[slade]

i would check older threads- this ones been done to death.

 

[Transported Upstater]

Crosby led the CHL in points, not just the Q if I remember correctly, and was the CHL player of the year. As a freaking ROOKIE. He also played in the Q before the crackdown on obstruction, not to mention the OHL is just as offensive a league as the QMJHL is now.

Crosby also won the Art Ross trophy before his 20th birthday, and scored over 100 points in the NHL as an 18-year old. He's possibly the best player on earth...AND HE'S NOT EVEN 20 YEARS OLD.

Tavares has NOTHING on Crosby. He's a better goal-scorer at the same age, but that's it. Crosby is simply a freak of nature.

 

[TaiMaiShu]

Is this the new Crosby vs. Ovechkin?

 

[Redwingsfan]

crosby was clearly the best player in the CHL at 16. tavares is amazing but he is not as good as crosby IMO.

 

[CertifiedPublicGuin]

crosby was clearly the best player in the CHL at 16. tavares is amazing but he is not as good as crosby IMO.

Gotta agree quite easily... Crosby had the better junior career, just as I believe he will continue to have the better pro career, though I think Tavares will be lights out too.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

Gotta agree quite easily... Crosby had the better junior career, just as I believe he will continue to have the better pro career, though I think Tavares will be lights out too.

I'll place a bet.

Both of my testicles, All my kids, my house, my car, my life, all of my money. That if the Penguins land Tavares they'll be saying Tavares and Crosby are par, that Tavares is the goalscoring part of Sidney that he lacks, and Sid is the passing side of Tavares that he lacks. In a way they could be Yin and Yang.

Which is you level it out if they play on the same line (If Tavares switches to Left or Right wing like I want him to) Crosby could feed Tavares to a 60 goal season.

But that won't happen cuz he'll be wearing an Avs jersey that season

 

[CertifiedPublicGuin]

I'll place a bet.

Both of my testicles, All my kids, my house, my car, my life, all of my money. That if the Penguins land Tavares they'll be saying Tavares and Crosby are par, that Tavares is the goalscoring part of Sidney that he lacks, and Sid is the passing side of Tavares that he lacks. In a way they could be Yin and Yang.

Which is you level it out if they play on the same line (If Tavares switches to Left or Right wing like I want him to) Crosby could feed Tavares to a 60 goal season.

But that won't happen cuz he'll be wearing an Avs jersey that season

Crosby lacks goal scoring? A 19 year old with 2 30 goal seasons lacks goal scoring.

 

[hockeydadx2*]

I'm pretty sure that the Pens will tank to make sure that they get Tavares, whatever year he ends up getting drafted.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

Crosby lacks goal scoring? A 19 year old with 2 30 goal seasons lacks goal scoring.

He's not a perrinial 50 goal scorer like Tavares is shaped out to be. Sid is no doubt one of the best play makers in the league. Put a 50-60 goalscorer on his line. Both stocks will rise.

Here comes an ovechin talk.

Ovechkin has 2 40+ goal seasons under his belt. Including a Richard chasing season as a rookie with 50+ goals.

Crosby is not suited to be a superb goalscorer. Another reason why the Gretzky comparisons are lucrative.

 

[CertifiedPublicGuin]

He's not a perrinial 50 goal scorer like Tavares is shaped out to be. Sid is no doubt one of the best play makers in the league. Put a 50-60 goalscorer on his line. Both stocks will rise.

Here comes an ovechin talk.

Ovechkin has 2 40+ goal seasons under his belt. Including a Richard chasing season as a rookie with 50+ goals.

Crosby is not suited to be a superb goalscorer. Another reason why the Gretzky comparisons are lucrative.

Hm... I don't understand why you use 'lucrative' in that situation... if you mean 'warrented' well then gretzky IS the all-time goals leader. I think the bottom line is you misjudge us Pens fans... we know what we have in Crosby and are not about to understate his value/skill level... he's arguably the best player in the world and I just don't feel Tavares is on his level, nor do I think he will ever be. He will be good, that's for certain... but I don't think anyone for a long while is gonna match Crosby, even if in The Land of Make-Believe we were to land Crosby, Crosby would still be the best player on the team by a comfortable margin.

I guess I'm just not really sure why you brought up the idea of "If the Pens landed Tavares..." What were you trying to really do with that?

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

I dunno.

But what is funny is how I used to be a die hard fan back in the early 90's when I was going through my cancer scares looking up to Mario. But now I'm kinda ashamed to be a fan because all of a suddon Penguins fans are crawling out of Pittsburgh's hoo-ha once they get another kid.

I'm not directing that at you but it's kinda jumping on the bandwaggon a little too late.

Why reap the benifits of what we had to suffer through. I was there rooting for them on the back burner when they sucked flat out. Sure I had my Avalanche by then (home town reasons) but I still have that emotional attatchment.

I'm just waging war on the Crosby fans who are there because he is.

EDIT:

I agree that Tavares will not be at his level, but plenty of people agree he will be the second best in this decade. He has the tools and the toolbox to post 60 goal 150 point seasons in the future. (I'm basing that off of absolutely nothing... and I'll admit that. I'm sure all the Daigle fans are kicking themselves today. I'll get to that point if I do. But i see high expectations in this kid. I think he can live up to them. Not Crosby Calibre but definately Franchise worthy. I think Crosby fans are... threatened?)

 

[CertifiedPublicGuin]

I dunno.

But what is funny is how I used to be a die hard fan back in the early 90's when I was going through my cancer scares looking up to Mario. But now I'm kinda ashamed to be a fan because all of a suddon Penguins fans are crawling out of Pittsburgh's hoo-ha once they get another kid.

I'm not directing that at you but it's kinda jumping on the bandwaggon a little too late.

Why reap the benifits of what we had to suffer through. I was there rooting for them on the back burner when they sucked flat out. Sure I had my Avalanche by then (home town reasons) but I still have that emotional attatchment.

I'm just waging war on the Crosby fans who are there because he is.

EDIT:

I agree that Tavares will not be at his level, but plenty of people agree he will be the second best in this decade. He has the tools and the toolbox to post 60 goal 150 point seasons in the future. (I'm basing that off of absolutely nothing... and I'll admit that. I'm sure all the Daigle fans are kicking themselves today. I'll get to that point if I do. But i see high expectations in this kid. I think he can live up to them. Not Crosby Calibre but definately Franchise worthy. I think Crosby fans are... threatened?)

Fair assessment, and I think the problem with the "Lemieux thing" is that a lot of the fanbase are younger kids (around the teenage years) who didn't get to really see Lemieux to his entirety. My personal opinion is that Lemieux is the greatest player to ever put on a pair of skates, including the Great One, but Crosby IMO has the potential to one day be spoken in the same breath as these two (as well as Orr).
I can also agree with the second portion... I guess that means I don't really disagree with anything your saying... perhaps my point all along was to make sure you didn't misconstrue the situation in Pittsburgh involving Crosby. I do doubt that many are threatened by the Tavares talk, but there's really no way to prove it one way or the other. I don't think Tavares' skating will be an issue in the future (many think that's his main flaw right now), but for some reason I can't really explain, I don't see him becoming quite the dominant for we're seeing from Crosby. Time is on his side though.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

Fair assessment, and I think the problem with the "Lemieux thing" is that a lot of the fanbase are younger kids (around the teenage years) who didn't get to really see Lemieux to his entirety. My personal opinion is that Lemieux is the greatest player to ever put on a pair of skates, including the Great One, but Crosby IMO has the potential to one day be spoken in the same breath as these two (as well as Orr).
I can also agree with the second portion... I guess that means I don't really disagree with anything your saying... perhaps my point all along was to make sure you didn't misconstrue the situation in Pittsburgh involving Crosby. I do doubt that many are threatened by the Tavares talk, but there's really no way to prove it one way or the other. I don't think Tavares' skating will be an issue in the future (many think that's his main flaw right now), but for some reason I can't really explain, I don't see him becoming quite the dominant for we're seeing from Crosby. Time is on his side though.

On the teenage part I totally dropped the ball on that one. Very true. In a way Crosby helped save that franchise skill wise and economically. Penguins are my Eastern team, my childhood team. I'm just defensive of new 'fans'.

Tavares alone cannot be the game changer. But look at the Esposito/Orr Boston Bruins. Put him on a good team and only good things will happen with his career. He can feed off of talent. He doesn't lead a team like Crosby does, but he sure makes good chances to grab the W for the night. Basically what I am saying is that Sidney Crosby could do what Joe Sakic has done for the recent Avalanche. I think Sidney Crosby could help lead a team to sucess with little to no supporting cast. Like Sakic has been able to do without the avaliability of stars. Tavares on the other hand may have issues with leading a team. I can see him doing what Sakic did when he was younger. Puting up 100 points on a last place team . Basically Tavares is the edge that Crosby doesnt have (or may not be able to tap into) and Crosby is the leadership and ability that Tavares may not be able to produce.

Now that I think about it if you could some how combine Tavares and Crosby... that looks alot like Gretzky to me.

 

[CertifiedPublicGuin]

Haha, I like that Crosby/Tavares combination... I think if you actually combined those two, the universe would be destroyed.
As for the 'fans' I know exactly what you're talking about... I've been in the presence of people in this city all this year and never previously had I overheard anyone conversing about the Penguins... suddenly you get it all the time now. Eh well, I guess it's better than the former situation.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

Haha, I like that Crosby/Tavares combination... I think if you actually combined those two, the universe would be destroyed.
As for the 'fans' I know exactly what you're talking about... I've been in the presence of people in this city all this year and never previously had I overheard anyone conversing about the Penguins... suddenly you get it all the time now. Eh well, I guess it's better than the former situation.

OT- I actually know exactly how you feel. If you look at where I'm located. Chicago. Bears and White Sox... two of the trashiest teams, in my not so humble opinion, in their respective sports either won the pennent or could have posted that '16-0' season. Bears fans started coming out faster than Gays at a gay day parade, and all of a suddon Cubs fans were Sox fans. It taints the sport. It's good for revinue but you lose your identity.

 

[Madevilz]

wouldnt Ovechkin vs Tavares be a better comparison?

 

[CertifiedPublicGuin]

wouldnt Ovechkin vs Tavares be a better comparison?

I think that would definitely stir up some very tightly-warranted debate... I just think the OP decided on these two based on amounts of hype, being labeled the Next One or Next huge star, being looked at so young, etc... but you're probably right.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

wouldnt Ovechkin vs Tavares be a better comparison?

Closer but no.

He's a throwback version of Phil Esposito with possibly the goalscoring talent of Pavel Bure.

OT (again)- If you need some entertaining (especially if you're a guy) light reading for the summer. I suggest Phil Esposito's Semi-autobiography 'Thunder and Lightning'. Basically spans his whole life from a child-hood in the Italian neighborhood of Sault-Ste. Marie until after he opened and lost the Lightning. Involving all the on and off ice stuff. Very good and very entertaining (a 70'sh year old alchoholic Italian... What's better )


Back on track-

The reason the Crosby comparisons are coming up is becuase Crosby was the last big thing to come out of Canada. Not all Canadians are the same. Tavares if I saw a highlight real of him I would think he was Russian with his god given goalscoring antics.

 

[Spooner]

I'm pretty sure that the Pens will tank to make sure that they get Tavares, whatever year he ends up getting drafted.

Tavares will tank to fall to the Pens, just like Esposito.



Also:

OT- I actually know exactly how you feel. If you look at where I'm located. Chicago. Bears and White Sox... two of the trashiest teams, in my not so humble opinion, in their respective sports either won the pennent or could have posted that '16-0' season. Bears fans started coming out faster than Gays at a gay day parade, and all of a suddon Cubs fans were Sox fans. It taints the sport. It's good for revinue but you lose your identity.

Gays at a Gay Day Parade are very likely already out.

 

[Brandinho]

Bure and Tavares have no business being in the same discussion. A lot of Bure's goalscoring talent came from the fact that he was possibly the best skater the NHL has ever seen. Tavares' skating is mediocre at best. If you want an accurate comparison, think Mike Bossy.

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

Bure and Tavares have no business being in the same discussion. A lot of Bure's goalscoring talent came from the fact that he was possibly the best skater the NHL has ever seen. Tavares' skating is mediocre at best. If you want an accurate comparison, think Mike Bossy.

Maybe I was aiming more at the numbers than style. Bossy would be a good comparison.

Phil Esposito is about as close as you can get. Tavares is very unique.

Gays at a Gay Day Parade are very likely already out.

OT- Funny story. We were in San Fran last year with my dad on a business trip. Gay day was in a week or so and there were coming out party stuff galore. You can actually get banners that say 'Ready to come out now' or stuff like that. You'd be suprised what happens at gay day parades.

 

[Spooner]

OT- Funny story. We were in San Fran last year with my dad on a business trip. Gay day was in a week or so and there were coming out party stuff galore. You can actually get banners that say 'Ready to come out now' or stuff like that. You'd be suprised what happens at gay day parades.

In San Fran, every day is Gay Day.

Also, no I wouldn't.

 

[Metallian*]

Tavares > Crosby

 

[Opeth]

Ovechkin > Crosby.

Ovechkin destroys Crosby. Ovechkin scored 52 goals with Washington, one of the worst teams in the league. On the other hand, look who Crosby had as teamates: Lemieux (at the start), Recchi, Leclair, Palfy, Whitney, Gonchar, - the list goes on and on. Ovechkin's team- mates????: Zubrus. Also, it's so easy in the new nhl to rack up assists. It's much harder to get goals, and that's where real players shine.

Tavares will be better than Crosby - mark my words....