Tavares Discussion Thread

[Stephen]

Were you this hard on Marner when he was struggling at first to start this season? He had just signed his new $10.893 million AAV, however he eventually got things together. I know he's not the captain like Tavares is, although he does have one of the A's and is looked at as one of the teams leaders.

I was much harder on Marner.

 

[DALLER66]

we know he’s gonna average a Point per game .. the concern is his defensive side of the puck and skating .. he has to be moved to the wing for this team to have more success .. he’s not suited for this team and style of play .. dubas should trade him but that won’t happen .. fans will have to accept the fact that we have this guy for 11 million over another 5 long years .. moving him to wing is worth the experiment .. let kerfoot play center after Tavares takes the face offs .

 

[Muston Atthews]

Yeah true. 18 goals and 41 pts in 43 games is pretty bad

Is it not a coincidence willy is playing like he is?

Honestly, what are you expecting from a 29 year old john Tavares?

I said he looks bad. He’s still putting up numbers but he has 0 foot speed

Keefe kept rolling out Spezza after the Tavares line and it was kind of amazing and horrible to see that Spezza seemed to have more mobility than JT out there and his energy level seemed better. There was even a moment on the PP when both guys were out there and Tavares with zero speed dished off to Spezza.

There’s nothing wrong with Tavares numbers but we need him engaged and making constructive game changing plays on a regular basis befitting of a $11 million AAV salary and a political appointment as captain.

I was actually going to mention the Spezza thing too. Tavares was making him look like a speedster

 

[Stephen]

Lol I was saying what can you expect as the guy is just coming off a 47 goal season and has 41 points this year.

As in, what more do you want him to do expectations? He is not going to lead the league in scoring and never has. He hit his career high last year .

These may be “reasonable” comments generally but not when it applies to Tavares. The Leafs blew up their cap structure to get him and he has to keep hitting that elite production while being a factor shift to shift for $11 million AAV to work. Otherwise this is a Scott Gomez or Brad Richards trade presents buy out in the making if he continues to underperform. No team can aspire to win and carry that kind of underachievement.

 

[LeafsNation75]

These may be “reasonable” comments generally but not when it applies to Tavares. The Leafs blew up their cap structure to get him and he has to keep hitting that elite production while being a factor shift to shift for $11 million AAV to work. Otherwise this is a Scott Gomez or Brad Richards trade presents buy out in the making if he continues to underperform. No team can aspire to win and carry that kind of underachievement.

I think you are way overreacting if you are trying to compare Tavares to Scott Gomez or Brad Richards after they singed their long term contracts. They didn't have 47 goals and 88 points in their 1st years like Tavares did.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Elite players with good smarts can extend their career as they slow down. Thornton is a good example of a player who wasn't overly fast but was able to adapt with age and be productive. Issue for Tavares being is that he become less and less of an $11 mill AAV player as he goes along, but that's the name of the free agent game.

At the end of the day he's still PPG and on pace for 30+ goals, which is in line with his career norm. If he can be an 80+ point player for another year or two and gradually decline from there that's not too bad so long as he's competent defensively.

Also keep in mind that with Marner and Nylander locked up for nearly all of Tavares' contract too, so those two should be able to help take pressure off of Tavares to do it all on his own.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Elite players with good smarts can extend their career as they slow down. Thornton is a good example of a player who wasn't overly fast but was able to adapt with age and be productive. Issue for Tavares being is that he become less and less of an $11 mill AAV player as he goes along, but that's the name of the free agent game.

At the end of the day he's still PPG and on pace for 30+ goals, which is in line with his career norm. If he can be an 80+ point player for another year or two and gradually decline from there that's not too bad so long as he's competent defensively.

Also keep in mind that with Marner and Nylander locked up for nearly all of Tavares' contract too, so those two should be able to help take pressure off of Tavares to do it all on his own.

So how come on the broadcast last night noth Jeff O'Neill and Ray Ferraro said Tavares is still scoring at his normal pace. If that was a problem with it be talked about a lot more knowing what the media can be like when a player is struggling.

 

[Stephen]

I think you are way overreacting if you are trying to compare Tavares to Scott Gomez or Brad Richards after they singed their long term contracts. They didn't have 47 goals and 88 points in their 1st years like Tavares did.

It’s not an overreaction it’s projecting worst case scenarios. I readily admit though I’m not giving Tavares any benefit of the doubt. Just like with any other player he has to prove himself day to day, week to week, season to season.

 

[Stephen]

Elite players with good smarts can extend their career as they slow down. Thornton is a good example of a player who wasn't overly fast but was able to adapt with age and be productive. Issue for Tavares being is that he become less and less of an $11 mill AAV player as he goes along, but that's the name of the free agent game.

At the end of the day he's still PPG and on pace for 30+ goals, which is in line with his career norm. If he can be an 80+ point player for another year or two and gradually decline from there that's not too bad so long as he's competent defensively.

Also keep in mind that with Marner and Nylander locked up for nearly all of Tavares' contract too, so those two should be able to help take pressure off of Tavares to do it all on his own.

I think it’s reasonable to expect that by the end of their current contracts Nylander will resemble the $11 million player and Tavares will resemble the $7 million player. Just need the JT decline to not happen for a few years and when it does it’s as gradual as possible. The version of JT we’ve seen January 2020 is not really acceptable.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It’s not an overreaction it’s projecting worst case scenarios. I readily admit though I’m not giving Tavares any benefit of the doubt. Just like with any other player he has to prove himself day to day, week to week, season to season.

I only think it's an overreaction because of both Jeff O'Neill and Ray Ferraro both saying that Tavares is scoring at his normal pace.

 

[Stephen]

I only think it's an overreaction because of both Jeff O'Neill and Ray Ferraro both saying that Tavares is scoring at his normal pace.

His pace is fine, but his on ice performance since the win streak ended has been poor and his January numbers are horrible.

 

[LeafsNation75]

His pace is fine, but his on ice performance since the win streak ended has been poor and his January numbers are horrible.

Like I said before if Jeff O'Neill and Ray Ferraro are not worried about him, maybe you are taking it to seriously. I understand that he's their captain and makes $11 million AAV, however I don't see anyone else with the same concern you have.

 

[Stephen]

Like I said before if Jeff O'Neill and Ray Ferraro are not worried about him, maybe you are taking it to seriously. I understand that he's their captain and makes $11 million AAV, however I don't see anyone else with the same concern you have.

My concerns are shared by a number of people on this thread, so the concern obviously exists.

Citing Ferraro and O'Neill's opinion over and over again in some kind of appeal to authority doesn't make those problems disappear.

 

[LeafsNation75]

My concerns are shared by a number of people on this thread, so the concern obviously exists.

Citing Ferraro and O'Neill's opinion over and over again in some kind of appeal to authority doesn't make those problems disappear.

The reason why I keep bringing up what they say is because they have actually played in the NHL and know more to give an opinion like that compared to you or myself.

 

[Stephen]

The reason why I keep bringing up what they say is because they have actually played in the NHL and know more to give an opinion like that compared to you or myself.

You keep bringing it up because you want to defend Tavares and you're appealing to authority.

The fact that Ferraro and O'Neill played in the NHL has no bearing on the fact that under Tavares captaincy and January cold streak the Leafs are on the outside of the playoff picture and is not a good bang for the buck.

Is it a permanent decline at the moment? No. But if this is the beginning of a decline, you make sure you can tell it's the real thing and you get rid of that contract.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You keep bringing it up because you want to defend Tavares and you're appealing to authority.

The fact that Ferraro and O'Neill played in the NHL has no bearing on the fact that under Tavares captaincy and January cold streak the Leafs are on the outside of the playoff picture and is not a good bang for the buck.

Is it a permanent decline at the moment? No. But if this is the beginning of a decline, you make sure you can tell it's the real thing and you get rid of that contract.

I would not be going down the road already of wanting to get rid of Tavares contract because he still deserves some benefit of the doubt.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Tavares is a 3 or four game point streak away from a pedestal i take it. Today he is the sole of the shoe ha. Unreal the criticism in here on him. I actually expect a small tear coming from him because of just playing the averages on his talent level.

i really believe he’s had crappy puck luck this season.

 

[Cleetus]

You keep bringing it up because you want to defend Tavares and you're appealing to authority.

The fact that Ferraro and O'Neill played in the NHL has no bearing on the fact that under Tavares captaincy and January cold streak the Leafs are on the outside of the playoff picture and is not a good bang for the buck.

Is it a permanent decline at the moment? No. But if this is the beginning of a decline, you make sure you can tell it's the real thing and you get rid of that contract.

means something to me, I like to listen to people who executed there craft in the best league in the world.

 

[LeafsNation75]

means something to me, I like to listen to people who executed there craft in the best league in the world.

If anything you think they would be the hardest on him, especially since the media in Toronto likes to make things sound worse than they really are.

 

[Stephen]

Tavares is a 3 or four game point streak away from a pedestal i take it. Today he is the sole of the shoe ha. Unreal the criticism in here on him. I actually expect a small tear coming from him because of just playing the averages on his talent level.

i really believe he’s had crappy puck luck this season.

If he goes on a heater he deserves to be praised. Just like this is a major issue when he's not scoring and at the forefront of three blow out type losses versus combining for a -8 against Florida, Edmonton and Chicago, which is 6 lost points in the standings and a playoff spot ATM.

 

[Stephen]

If anything you think they would be the hardest on him, especially since the media in Toronto likes to make things sound worse than they really are.

The media is usually going to take a middle of the road approach to veterans with status.

I find it difficult to believe anyone's been happy with Tavares this month.

 

[LeafsNation75]

If he goes on a heater he deserves to be praised. Just like this is a major issue when he's not scoring and at the forefront of three blow out type losses versus combining for a -8 against Florida, Edmonton and Chicago, which is 6 lost points in the standings and a playoff spot ATM.

In those games Tavares was not the only one responsible for the Leafs losing them.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

You keep bringing it up because you want to defend Tavares and you're appealing to authority.

The fact that Ferraro and O'Neill played in the NHL has no bearing on the fact that under Tavares captaincy and January cold streak the Leafs are on the outside of the playoff picture and is not a good bang for the buck.

Is it a permanent decline at the moment? No. But if this is the beginning of a decline, you make sure you can tell it's the real thing and you get rid of that contract.

I am seeing January as a month of poor defensive play and poor goaltending by Andersen at the exact time. Freddy will like thrive if the defense game picks up. I will say that i think that JTs line really took a hit when soupy went down. They were really starting come on strong together as a line. Jts fine

 

[93LEAFS]

Tavares can run hot/cold, and his game is more about efficiency and being in the right place than flash. He can create some wow moments, but he's more about winning battles, smart play and capitalizing. He's been this way his entire career. He's also not going to get as many easy points as he did in the Isle, because we don't run our entire PP through him. He's at best the 3rd primary puck carrier on the PP, and arguably behind whoever we use as the D.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The media is usually going to take a middle of the road approach to veterans with status.

I find it difficult to believe anyone's been happy with Tavares this month.

I know he's not a veteran player like Tavares, however do you remember the talk about Mitch Marner when he was struggling in his 2nd season? When he was still working for Sportsnet this is what Nick Kypreos was saying about him at the time and obviously he was proven to be wrong.