Tanking and the NHL's Lack of Parity: They Go Hand in Hand

[CantHaveTkachev]

Beacuse money?

MLB wants to make money too, yet even they realize if emphasis is on regular season play, then less teams in the playoffs make for better playoffs

Who thinks that? Surely not all the millions of people who watch

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2711994-its-up-to-cavs-and-warriors-to-save-the-2017-nba-playoffs

basketball fans maybe, but most casual fans find them boring and predictable...too many sweeps and blowout games and not enough drama

 

[WaveRaven]

MLB wants to make money too, yet even they realize if emphasis is on regular season play, then less teams in the playoffs make for better playoffs



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2711994-its-up-to-cavs-and-warriors-to-save-the-2017-nba-playoffs

basketball fans maybe, but most casual fans find them boring and predictable...too many sweeps and blowout games and not enough drama

They do ? Then why did they double the amount of teams from 4 to 8 ?

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

There is incredible parity in our league. Like crazy amounts. The 8th seed in the West is in the SCF right now.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I think the current draft lottery will really shake up this meta, with teams like Philly and Dallas that were close to a playoff spot getting top picks.

 

[Random Forest]

This is not a good analysis for many of the reasons that have been suggested already. You don't get to call something a fluke just because it doesn't conform to your theory, and you also don't get to arbitrarily set the sample to the time in which your theory is confirmed. From 2006 to 2012, we had a new champion every single year. And you obviously don't get to determine parity by one measurement or datapoint (Stanley Cup winners) that confirms what you want it to.

You've started with a conclusion and then backtracked to include only the observations that confirmed your conclusion, then you suggest the evidence is conclusive. That's just bad analysis.

Not to mention the fact that you ignore the fact that there is no shortage of examples of teams who collect top picks and never get competitive. Yes, Chicago had Toews and Kane... they also had hundreds of other factors that cumulatively delivered them sustained success. Yes, LA had Doughty, but they also had an uncountable number of factors that contributed to their success. And, hell, Pittsburgh was a giant disappointment a little over a year ago for failing to sustain their success, despite having Crosby and Malkin that whole time. The narrative that teams can't succeed without lottery talent is nonsense. Lottery talent is obviously a big help, but it's not a prerequisite.


Additionally, something that people overlook when evaluating the success of the Hawks and Kings: they both drafted more often than the rest of the league. Chicago, for example, from 2001 to 2010 made 102 selections at the draft, far more than the rest of the league during that time-- the next closest was 8 picks fewer. That's more than a full draft class more than the second most frequent drafting team! Chicago's success on a per pick basis at the draft was not particularly impressive. They did not have success at the draft because they identified talent; they had success at the draft because they had so many damn picks. They had Toews and Kane, but they also had a nonstop flow of solid roster players as a result of sheer volume of picks. In a cap world, this is just as important as having lottery talent. AFAIC, it's more important.

The "rut of mediocrity" that gets perpetuated around here is the biggest myth around. If you're a mediocre team, you don't need to tank or go for a full-blown rebuild. You need to stop trading picks and you need to add one, two, or three extra picks per draft, even just in the mid rounds. Within ~three years, you'll yield NHL talent that will help you turn your team around even if you never pick in the top five, provided your management is astute in other areas as well.

 

[SatanwasaSlovak]

The problem is not lack of parity or tanking per se. The problem is the cap, which means everybody has to play the game the exact same way and therefore there's only one road to success.

Which makes for bland teams without any identity and interchangable cogs of players, instead of loyalty and hometown heroes.

Who gives a crap about parity, if you're not good enough the leagues shouldn't be there to help you get better, it's up to your team to get better.

The salary cap has made this league duller by the year.

 

[LeafFever]

In what world is the NHL lacking parity? The team with the worst record of any playoff team is in the finals.

The NBA, now there's a league with lack of parity.

 

[Cawz]

MLB wants to make money too, yet even they realize if emphasis is on regular season play, then less teams in the playoffs make for better playoffs

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2711994-its-up-to-cavs-and-warriors-to-save-the-2017-nba-playoffs

basketball fans maybe, but most casual fans find them boring and predictable...too many sweeps and blowout games and not enough drama

The link you sent says ratings for the NBA playoffs are up this year. If fans find it boring, why are they watching in higher numbers?

I agree the playoffs havent been the greatest. Its been 2 dominant teams playing lesser teams going through injury issues, all the while on a collision course to meet in the Finals. Game 3 Cav Celts was one of the biggest upsets in NBA history, but besides that, it was just straight up dismantling in that series.

But the whole point of having 16 teams in the playoffs when typically 10 of those teams have no chance of winning (moreso this year but thats more of an anomoly) is for experience. The Warriors were one of those non-contending teams for their first 2 trips to the playoffs. Now look at them.

But this is getting off topic...

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

As seen in the NBA, placing additional restrictions on player movement is a good way to lock in whatever your status quo is.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Also, closing the waivers loophole just as the league entered the end of its growth cycle and without adding any provisions to clear salary past 2015, has proven really ****ing stupid.

 

[Cawz]

The idea is to keep it even between all teams as a basis.

The idea is to give the worst teams the best chance to improve, all the while putting a system in place that doesnt guarantee anything in order to discourage tanking.

 

[theaub]

Also, closing the waivers loophole just as the league entered the end of its growth cycle and without adding any provisions to clear salary past 2015, has proven really ****ing stupid.

This x10000000

A stagnant cap with no way to free up cap space is the stupidest thing ever. And is the only thing that really supports the TC - the only way to add elite talent now is through the draft because teams will sacrifice depth to keep star players since there's basically no way to replace them.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

This x10000000

A stagnant cap with no way to free up cap space is the stupidest thing ever. And is the only thing that really supports the TC - the only way to add elite talent now is through the draft because teams will sacrifice depth to keep star players since there's basically no way to replace them.

To make matters worse, the league botched salary retention as well. You should have the option to trade full cap hits while just retaining salary.

So far, the rule has only really helped grease the Kessel trade and provide additional cap manipulation for teams chucking contracts at the deadline.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Trading full cap hits while retaining salary also solves part of the "NHL players getting punished for vet salaries" of the old waiver rule.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Well, what do you know, for the second year in a row, the team with back to back to back to back to back top-5 picks is completely ******** on their opponents in the SCF

We're about to have 3 teams winning the last 6 and 7 of the last 8 Cups.

For the folks who say the NBA has less parity. I AM SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY IN TERMS OF LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS.

I AM SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY IN TERMS OF LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS

I AM SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY IN TERMS OF LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS

I AM NOT SPEAKING IN TERMS OF CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS

I AM NOT SPEAKING IN TERMS OF PRESIDENTS TROPHY WINNERS

I AM NOT SPEAKING IN TERMS OF TEAMS WHO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS OR WIN A FEW GAMES IN A SERIES THEY ULTIMATELY LOSE TO ONE OF THE 3 TANKERS

I AM SPEAKING ONLY IN TERMS OF TEAMS THAT WIN LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIPS

In the last 8 seasons, we have seen 4 different Stanley Cup winners. The NBA has seen 5. This is a ****ing fact. Of course, since the NBA finals are guaranteed a repeat champion from that time frame, we can say they have seen 5 champions in their last 9 seasons. If the Penguins win the Stanley Cup, we will have seen 4 champions in the last 9 seasons. If the Predators come back from 2-0, we will have seen 5 different champions since 2009...the same as the NBA.

 

[LeafsNation75]

As seen in the NBA, placing additional restrictions on player movement is a good way to lock in whatever your status quo is.

The problem with that is once a player in the NBA reaches UFA status and are playing in a small market, there are rumours for at least 1 year or more that they will want to leave. It's going on right now with Paul George and how he will want to leave Indiana and sign with the Lakers in July of 2018.

 

[SecretOilersFan]

Well, what do you know, for the second year in a row, the team with back to back to back to back to back top-5 picks is completely ******** on their opponents in the SCF

We're about to have 3 teams winning the last 6 and 7 of the last 8 Cups.

For the folks who say the NBA has less parity. I AM SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY IN TERMS OF LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS.

I AM SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY IN TERMS OF LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS

I AM SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY IN TERMS OF LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS

I AM NOT SPEAKING IN TERMS OF CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS

I AM NOT SPEAKING IN TERMS OF PRESIDENTS TROPHY WINNERS

I AM NOT SPEAKING IN TERMS OF TEAMS WHO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS OR WIN A FEW GAMES IN A SERIES THEY ULTIMATELY LOSE TO ONE OF THE 3 TANKERS

I AM SPEAKING ONLY IN TERMS OF TEAMS THAT WIN LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIPS

In the last 8 seasons, we have seen 4 different Stanley Cup winners. The NBA has seen 5. This is a ****ing fact. Of course, since the NBA finals are guaranteed a repeat champion from that time frame, we can say they have seen 5 champions in their last 9 seasons. If the Penguins win the Stanley Cup, we will have seen 4 champions in the last 9 seasons. If the Predators come back from 2-0, we will have seen 5 different champions since 2009...the same as the NBA.

Yes but that is cherrypicking evidence it doesn't matter based on how many teams win its how they win. You can't just say well the heat and Cav's are two separate teams that have gone to the finals and have nothing in common. If Lebron stays with the Heat there goes one less team off the list.

Also HF boards as always is overreacting we have a 7 game series for a reason ( I should know) Nashville has been out chancing them on shots and possession lets see how they do at home before descending into hysteria.

The NBA's two top teams are having a trilogy with their combined record being 24-1 in comparison the NHL top teams in the finals combined record is 24-11 which considering is a wider margin. This is the first time since 1998 where there could be two back to backs.

We have parity when every team has a chance to win and if Ottawa got a nice bounce here and there we would have a massively different tone now wouldn't we. In comparison the Celtics the Spurs those teams weren't a 3-pointer away from winning they were utterly dominated both in the scores and series count.

Both GSW and the Cav's have never throughout shown signs of weakness whereas the Pens were taken to two separate GM7. People don't hate teams that can repeat win they hate it when there is no drama there has been tons of drama regarding the Pens as they blew a 3-1 series lead to the caps the Crosby injury and then the Sens looking like they were going to upset them in GM7. This finals hasn't had as much ignoring the small bit in Game 1 but again wait until the series is over.

And trust me I am not going after the NBA's lack of parity because I have a hockey inferiority complex I used to be a huge Rockets fan but you can't without a straight face say that there isn't more than 2 or 3 teams ( if you include the Spurs) that have a chance to win. The Preds even being in the final and eliminating the favourite Blackhawks is more than enough evidence that there is more parity(come back to me when GSW lose to Portland).

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

The problem with that is once a player in the NBA reaches UFA status and are playing in a small market, there are rumours for at least 1 year or more that they will want to leave. It's going on right now with Paul George and how he will want to leave Indiana and sign with the Lakers in July of 2018.

Isn't that kind of a thing in every sport though? We're about to do this with OEL and Tavares. Also, had George made an All-NBA team, those rumors die on the spot.

 

[Butch 19]

Taylor Hall absolutely did pan out. He may not have become a franchise player, but he is one of the 5-10 best players at his position in the NHL. They traded him for their #2 defenseman who led them in TOI during the playoffs. The Oilers are a perfect example of this because they were rewarded for their continued mediocrity! They made 3 awful picks back to back to back (RNH, Yak, Nurse), were a joke of a franchise, until suddenly, after being the 3rd worst team in the league in 2014, they were the 3rd worst team in the league yet again in 2015. However, because of a draft lottery, they received the best player in the world! Now, after finishing 2nd worst in the league in the 2016 season, and rece

No, Taylor Hall did not pan out. Every #1 OA needs to be a franchise player, period.

Every. Single. One.

Anything less is just different degrees of failure.

 

[Soundwave]

How are the Bruins a "fluke"? They made the Finals *twice*, winning once.

The NHL has more parity than any major pro sport, get over it with the parity thing.

The real truth about the Pens too is they got fairly lucky with the Phil Kessel situation, Toronto basically may have gifted them two Cups.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Isn't that kind of a thing in every sport though? We're about to do this with OEL and Tavares. Also, had George made an All-NBA team, those rumors die on the spot.

The difference is with the NBA it happens a lot more compared to the NHL.

Remember when Carmelo Anthony was with the Denver Nuggets and was rumored to wanting to only play for the Knicks. There was reports that Denver tried to trade him to the Nets (When they still played in New Jersey) that trade feel through and he eventually got his wish and was traded to the Knicks.

There was also the whole Dwight Howard saga before the Orlando Magic traded him.

Who can forget when LeBron first left Cleveland and went to Miami along with Chris Bosh to join up with Dwayne Wade.

Finally after LeBron went back to Cleveland there was a report he called Kevin Love and said he wanted him on his team which Love confirmed at his introduction press conference once he was traded, however Love was still under contract to Minnesota when they talked. While that's not technically tampering later that summer the Raptors got fined for Drake's comments at a concert where Kevin Durant was at and he said to the crowd wouldn't you want to see him in a Raptors uniform? They were fined since Drake was their Global Ambassador and the fine could have been avoided if he gave up that title which the Raptors said no.

 

[Soundwave]

Well, what do you know, for the second year in a row, the team with back to back to back to back to back top-5 picks is completely ******** on their opponents in the SCF

We're about to have 3 teams winning the last 6 and 7 of the last 8 Cups.

For the folks who say the NBA has less parity. I AM SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY IN TERMS OF LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS.

I AM SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY IN TERMS OF LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS

I AM SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY IN TERMS OF LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS

I AM NOT SPEAKING IN TERMS OF CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS

I AM NOT SPEAKING IN TERMS OF PRESIDENTS TROPHY WINNERS

I AM NOT SPEAKING IN TERMS OF TEAMS WHO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS OR WIN A FEW GAMES IN A SERIES THEY ULTIMATELY LOSE TO ONE OF THE 3 TANKERS

I AM SPEAKING ONLY IN TERMS OF TEAMS THAT WIN LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIPS

In the last 8 seasons, we have seen 4 different Stanley Cup winners. The NBA has seen 5. This is a ****ing fact. Of course, since the NBA finals are guaranteed a repeat champion from that time frame, we can say they have seen 5 champions in their last 9 seasons. If the Penguins win the Stanley Cup, we will have seen 4 champions in the last 9 seasons. If the Predators come back from 2-0, we will have seen 5 different champions since 2009...the same as the NBA.

My response is -- who cares.

The league is far more competitive and the margin of winning to losing is razor thin.

We could have very easily had a Ducks or Oilers vs. Senators Finals this year too.

If a call goes one way or another, one bounce goes this way instead of the other way. In basketball, the only thing that would make the Celtics beat the Cavs for a hypothetical Celtics-Spurs final would be 1991 Michael Jordan suiting up for them and nothing but.

And why an arbitrary cut off to 8 years? Why not include Carolina, Tampa, and Detroit? The Penguins have not been in the Finals prior to these last two years for like a half decade+ as well.

If tanking is a guarantee for Cup Finals, then I guess Colorado should punch their ticket for two years from now?

 

[Peat]

I think you're the first person I've seen say that the Pens are whomping on the Preds. Most people seem to think we're committing daylight robbery of one sort or another. A dominant dynasty display this is not.

 

[XX]

The NHL does not have a parity problem. The entire premise of this thread is based on something that isn't true.

 

[theaub]

The difference is with the NBA it happens a lot more compared to the NHL.

Remember when Carmelo Anthony was with the Denver Nuggets and was rumored to wanting to only play for the Knicks. There was reports that Denver tried to trade him to the Nets (When they still played in New Jersey) that trade feel through and he eventually got his wish and was traded to the Knicks.

There was also the whole Dwight Howard saga before the Orlando Magic traded him.

Who can forget when LeBron first left Cleveland and went to Miami along with Chris Bosh to join up with Dwayne Wade.

Finally after LeBron went back to Cleveland there was a report he called Kevin Love and said he wanted him on his team which Love confirmed at his introduction press conference once he was traded, however Love was still under contract to Minnesota when they talked. While that's not technically tampering later that summer the Raptors got fined for Drake's comments at a concert where Kevin Durant was at and he said to the crowd wouldn't you want to see him in a Raptors uniform? They were fined since Drake was their Global Ambassador and the fine could have been avoided if he gave up that title which the Raptors said no.

The problems with the NBA (outside of the overarching 'one player can affect the game way more' issue) are totally different than the NHL though.

The NBA has a max contract that actually gets reached, but its far too low compared to a player's impact on the game. If you wanted actual parity in the NBA, the max contract would be something like 60% of the salary cap. Instead, you get guys like LeBron/Durant/Westbrook etc getting virtually the same deals as second tier stars like DeRozan/Conley/Griffin etc. As a result, teams are able to stack max contract guys together, and other teams are forced to pay their good, not great players the same as true superstars, or go down the tanking rabbit hole. Thus you get a couple real competitive teams, a few treadmill second round fodder teams and 15 trash teams. Unsurprisingly, the NBA product is nothing short of terrible outside of when the fodder teams play each other in the playoffs or the NBA Finals.

However, I'd take that 10 times out of 10 over the NHL. The NHL's idea of parity over the past couple of years is to provide virtually no avenues of relief for management to increase their available salary cap. Thus it begets the following cycle which will continue to become more obvious as the years go by with a stagnant cap.

1) Teams need to find money to sign their good, young ELC/RFA players who are now demanding more money
2) Teams remove depth to do so, instead filling the bottom of the roster with players on ELC's who would likely be far better suited for an extra season or two in the AHL
3) Mid-tier veteran players, who on the whole are better than these ELC players, struggle to find work for an acceptable salary, and consider Europe instead
4) The overall quality of the game decreases and becomes far more systems based than skill based.

The best thing for the NHL this year is that there's an extra $70M-ish of cap space available due to expansion. It should help stagnate that cycle a bit for a year, but it will just return next year if nothing else is done.

I think you're the first person I've seen say that the Pens are whomping on the Preds. Most people seem to think we're committing daylight robbery of one sort or another. A dominant dynasty display this is not.

If the guy's stretched this far to fit in his little narrative box, what's one more falsehood?