Post-Game Talk: Tampa Bay Lightning at New York Rangers 11/17/14

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bernmeister

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We are reaping what we are sowing.

I plead with you guys constantly, I say if you don't like a specific trade prop fine, constructive criticism is welcomed, just please, yield to certain facts.

And for the most part, do you listen to me? No.

Some people wanted to move Kreider, I resisted, insisting Torts was wrong. I was proven right.

Now we are having a similar situation w/JT Miller. More complicated. Whether he stays or goes, we can't afford to be wasting an asset, 15th overall, due to this FUBAR development.

Our C situation is disjointed.
We need to STOP with the experimentation, do my synergy thing.

Kreider - Hayes - correct RW = power line (don't give rat's ass if 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in the pecking order)
and a speed line, until JT is traded, of Hags-Miller-Duke (same rat's ass)
again, yield to the true fact that Miller is the fastest C and best qualified for that position
[unless we want to start thinking about trying Hags at C and maybe Duke, MSL at Ws]

However, while Hayes is a keeper, we need , not nec. in one fell swoop, to upgrade the C depth we have of Stepan, Brassard and Miller and get one great C in exchange (Moore, Lindberg round out the top 4).

And if we can't go in that preferred direction, we have to be open minded about talent upgrade. If moving Stepan dramatically weakens our C, but it HUGELY increases another area of need, it is worth it.

I mention these here in this thread because failure to observe the above made the Rangers into a putrid team last night.

This can be corrected, but you guys gotta see my larger picture and admit it is a correct agenda (notwithstanding your entirely proper and continued right/duty to speak against any given particular trade).

IN short, the Rangers must dominate or be dominated.
The Knicks took their lumps vs. Michael Jordan, as did the rest of the league. The smart thing to do on paper was change Kenny/Sky Walker's game to 100% D first, and make MJ earn every point, pulling him down from 60+ territory to a more reasonable 25+ or so. NY failed to do this, and MJ dominated.

Similarly, a guy like Hayes doesn't have to be as good as ___________ (elite C); Hayes just has to be good enough to partially offset some of that advantage.

We need more special talent, like Hayes and Kreider, even if we have to overpay to get it.
Failure to acquire same will result in being dominated, which reduces us from favorite to outside contender come POs.
 

True Blue

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They got a 2nd in return.

The 2014 pick wasn't replaced.

The 2015 1st was replaced with a 2015 2nd.

It's a deep draft. Two late seconds in 2015 will be as good as late 1st rounders from previous years.

They don't go to the SCF with Callahan. Period.

MSL, a 2nd and a SCF for an expiring Callahan, a 28th overall pick and an 18-30 1st is an excellent trade in hindsight.
Utterly debateable if they do not go just as far last year with Callahan. Still, a first round pick is a first round pick. An organization that is bereft of talent in the minors does not permit for you to throw away first rounders for a player who had the ultimate hammer in the trade. Sather once again bid against himself.

And an appearance in the Finals is great, but how many here regularly remember the '79 team? How many time is that team used as a measuring mark? The answer is hardly any and not at all. Because that is what loosing in the Finals counts for.
 

True Blue

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I'll agree with others about J.Moore. He has been making some very dumb decisions past few games. Definitely a weak link.

Tanner Glass.........
Blaming the results on Glass & Tanner (sorry if you are not) is like blaming Enron on the mail delivery boy. The reason this team looks largely terrible has nothing to do with those two players.
 

McRanger

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I was at the game and close to the action. It would have been closer if they forfeited. They did not even show up. Utterly incapable of winning any battles whatsoever. No presence to speak of. Horrific defensive awareness, if there was any at all.

They are not winning battles as they are even smaller than last year.

So far, Tampa is winning the MLS trade. Not to get into that discussion again. And I stand by my assertions that I would have signed Boyle and Stralman, at the expense of Moore and Brassard.

Stralman had nothing to do with Moore or Brassard. He would have been signed at the expense of Girardi and/or Dan Boyle. Which probably would have been a good thing.

Signing Boyle at the expense of Brassard would have been the height of stupidity. But that probably wouldn't have been necessary. Most of Boyle's salary was taken by Glass, and if we signed Stralman instead of Girardi (and still signed Dan Boyle) we would have more space available than we need to keep Brian Boyle. Oh well.

Disagree about Tampa currently "winning" the trade. St. Louis helped the Rangers get to the cup finals. Tampa got swept and Callahan did nothing. Outside of this board most people still count "winning" as actually winning and not collecting high draft picks.

Lets see if Callahan can even stay healthy enough to help Tampa. He's missed what, 5 games already this season? 6 years at 5.8 per is a scary contract for a guy who plays like Callahan and will be 30 in a few months.
 

True Blue

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Stralman had nothing to do with Moore or Brassard. He would have been signed at the expense of Girardi and/or Dan Boyle. Which probably would have been a good thing.

Signing Boyle at the expense of Brassard would have been the height of stupidity. But that probably wouldn't have been necessary. Most of Boyle's salary was taken by Glass, and if we signed Stralman instead of Girardi (and still signed Dan Boyle) we would have more space available than we need to keep Brian Boyle. Oh well.
Not mentioning signings at expense, just total dollar comparisons.
Disagree about Tampa currently "winning" the trade. St. Louis helped the Rangers get to the cup finals. Tampa got swept and Callahan did nothing. Outside of this board most people still count "winning" as actually winning and not collecting high draft picks.
Winning is winning and how much of a helping hand MSL had is up for debate.
 

Raspewtin

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Because I honestly see him as an overrated player. And whatever I do think, he is not the type of player you lock up to a long term, big money contract.

5 years is hardly long term.

And that overrated player carried this team with Nash while Stepan was gone. 15 points in 18 games while not having consistent linemates.

Even if he is overrated or whatever, were going to not resign him to sign Boyle? LOL at that center depth. Would be the bar none worst in the league
 

McRanger

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I love it.

Last year the Rangers struggled and when people pointed out valid reasons why... others called them "excuses". The team lacked heart. Effort. Identity. Intestinal fortitude. Grit. Refined palates.

Now the team is struggling, again with key players in and out of the lineup, and its not comparable to last year because all of a sudden last years teams struggles were real. It's THIS years team is that is missing heart. Identity. Jam. Fashion sense.
 

pld459666

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Because I honestly see him as an overrated player. And whatever I do think, he is not the type of player you lock up to a long term, big money contract.

can't see Brassard as overrated.

He's a 40-50 point scoring forward

a solid 2nd/3rd line tweener.

If Poo is worth 4 per on the open market, I consider 5 per for Brassard cheap.

And if he can maintain his current pace of 60+ points this year, it's a steal (1st year)

Brass's knock is consistency, he's been blanked in just 2 straight this season.

18 games in, that's a pretty solid clip.
 

McRanger

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Not mentioning signings at expense, just total dollar comparisons.

Winning is winning and how much of a helping hand MSL had is up for debate.

Callahan getting no points in 4 games is not up for debate. St. Louis's 15 points, including an OT winner in the ECF and an assist on the series winning goal in game 7 against Pitt, are also not up for debate.
 

McRanger

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can't see Brassard as overrated.

He's a 40-50 point scoring forward

a solid 2nd/3rd line tweener.

If Poo is worth 4 per on the open market, I consider 5 per for Brassard cheap.

And if he can maintain his current pace of 60+ points this year, it's a steal (1st year)

Brass's knock is consistency, he's been blanked in just 2 straight this season.

18 games in, that's a pretty solid clip.

Frighteningly reasonable post.
 

Doctyl

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Jan 25, 2011
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Callahan getting no points in 4 games is not up for debate. St. Louis's 15 points, including an OT winner in the ECF and an assist on the series winning goal in game 7 against Pitt, are also not up for debate.

But McDavid
 

TheTakedown

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Jul 11, 2012
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Why not: Not resign Moore, not sign Boyle, not extend Brassard and resign Boyle & Stralman?

because then there is no 2nd line center.

Stepan - Hayes - Boyle - Moore...

That's INCREDIBLY weak down the middle... 1 60 point player, 2 25-30 point players, and a 20 point player...

Then comes the defense:

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
Allen-McIlrath

that bottom pair is so blah, then again the 2nd pairing can make up for that I suppose?

But McDavid

#blowitallup
 

AHB*

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Not mentioning signings at expense, just total dollar comparisons.

Winning is winning and how much of a helping hand MSL had is up for debate.

Brassard is one of the luxuries the Rangers REALLY couldn't afford to lose. You think this team is bad now, try it without Brassard. It would be disgusting. In addition, he got paid exactly where players of his caliber are being paid. You may not want to comprehend the difference between the cap now and when it was instituted, but I'd advise you to do so before making comments about overpaying players.

And are you seriously questioning how much of a hand MSL had in helping us get to the cup? Ridiculous.
 
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