Talented Team with some Fundamental Flaws

[GloryDaze4877]

I'm pretty sure we will never be on the same page with this and that's fine, but if we get conference finals with guys like Matt Martin, Ryan Reaves, Josh Anderson, Nick Foligno, Tom Wilson and Brayden Schenn playing I think it points in another direction from the speed and skill we have heard so much about.

You named 6 guys from 5 different teams, and amongst those players, there are all level of skillsets and talent.

Martin and Reaves are the only low scoring “enforcers” of any of them. The others are all physical players that do a lot more than that for their teams.

Speaking for myself, I would not have any issue with the B’s having a Schenn, Anderson, Wilson, or Foligno on the team (and I doubt many others would either). The B’s actually tried to deal for Schenn and almost had him earlier this year.

This is why this argument is so dumb. If you gave anyone on this board the choice between two players with equal/similar production and skill, the only difference being physicality. Everyone would take the guy that had the physical aspect to his game also.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

You named 6 guys from 5 different teams, and amongst those players, there are all level of skillsets and talent.

Martin and Reaves are the only low scoring “enforcers” of any of them. The others are all physical players that do a lot more than that for their teams.

Speaking for myself, I would not have any issue with the B’s having a Schenn, Anderson, Wilson, or Foligno on the team (and I doubt many others would either). The B’s actually tried to deal for Schenn and almost had him earlier this year.

This is why this argument is so dumb. If you gave anyone on this board the choice between two players with equal/similar production and skill, the only difference being physicality. Everyone would take the guy that had the physical aspect to his game also.

This is creating a false dilemma, in which the solution is oversimplified.

Obviously* anybody would take the grittier version of each player --that, indeed, goes without saying. That is like saying anybody would take the 2019 version of a car model over the exact same 2015 version.

Uhhh, yup. We need to look and prioritize which model we are buying in the first place.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

So much of this. I cannot stress it enough. The hole on the 2nd line is glaring more than ever in this series and especially in a game going 0-0 into the third.

I get all kind of shit for my affinity for Heinen, but I believe that he could fill that hole on the 2nd line, had he been given the opportunity to play there all year.

That said, I would have felt even more comfortable had the B’s been able to keep Heinen, but acquire a guy like Schenn (instead of say MoJo). Then they would have had a more proven solution in the Top 6 and Heinen on the 3rd line where he could be more effective.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

This is creating a false dilemma, in which the solution is oversimplified.

Obviously* anybody would take the grittier version of each player --that, indeed, goes without saying. That is like saying anybody would take the 2019 version of a car model over the exact same 2015 version.

Uhhh, yup. We need to look and prioritize which model we are buying in the first place.

Not saying that “we” don’t. However, the more robust models that we all prefer are in high demand, short supply and don’t grow on trees.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

I get all kind of **** for my affinity for Heinen, but I believe that he could fill that hole on the 2nd line, had he been given the opportunity to play there all year.

That said, I would have felt even more comfortable had the B’s been able to keep Heinen, but acquire a guy like Schenn (instead of say MoJo). Then they would have had a more proven solution in the Top 6 and Heinen on the 3rd line where he could be more effective.

IMO, you're not wrong (check your PM).

I think we're on the same page here --rather than getting the cheaper guy from the discount pile, I would have rather paid more and got way more (back when Schenn was being shopped).

I dunno.... I just paid to get the Trailhawk version on my new Jeep; it made the price-tag significantly higher but I don't mind paying more to get the upgraded, tougher version that will be a better vehicle for me and my needs. Feels like the Bruins go looking for a deal on the base model car in the used lot (but still managed to overpay on Nash last year with an odometer about to turn over). Stempniak, Gionta etc.

 

[Fenian24]

Not saying that “we” don’t. However, the more robust models that we all prefer are in high demand, short supply and don’t grow on trees.

Then perhaps a priority should be placed on drafting those type of players instead of Donato's, Bjork's and (dare I say it) Heinen's? Or more to the point instead of anAnderson, Lauko, Hall you pick some projects in that spot who could develop into a Josh Anderson, Matt Martin or Michael Ferland

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Then perhaps a priority should be placed on drafting those type of players instead of Donato's, Bjork's and (dare I say it) Heinen's? Or more to the point instead of anAnderson, Lauko, Hall you pick some projects in that spot who could develop into a Josh Anderson, Matt Martin or Michael Ferland

You make it seem so easy, lol.

Heinen was a 4th round pick. If he’s a 35-45 point, strong defensive 3rd liner, that’s a bargain.

As much as you seem to think they aren’t looking, I’m sure the B’s would love to draft a Ferland-Anderson-Wilson type player.


ps Matt Martin is more of a goon...pass.

 

[Smitty93]

I don't know about that.

Marchand leads all scorers in the series with 6 points. Our big three (Marchand, Pasta and Bergeron) has 13 points. Toronto's big three (Matthews, Marner and Tavares) has 13 points.

I agree that our big3 can play better, but to blame the series deficit on them seems unfair.

IMO, three bigger reasons for the deficit are...
Their strategic approach to this series, which falls on Cassidy.
The lack of a RW for Krejci through 5 games, which falls on Sweeney.
The supporting cast not producing; i.e. DeBrusk, Johansson, Backes, Wagner, Acciari, Nordstrom...

Isn't this the issue though? With the way they're set up, the Bruins need to win that match-up in order to win. Toronto doesn't.

 

[xStanleyCupsFor]

Fwiw, I don't think he's without his own plans. I think Cassidy's strategy is to counterpunch. He wants to prevent their stretch play and force turnovers in the Nzone and then counterattack off those turnovers. Maybe that sounded good on paper but I don't think it's working out the way they hoped. To me, it's too conservative and reactionary. And so far at least, it seems like TO is better at getting through the Nzone than we are at creating those turnovers.

Cassidy has been a good coach for the Bruins. He obviously knows his Xs and Os more than any of us. He's an NHL coach! I think he just overthought it too much. We as fans are reacting to what we see not because we know better, but because we've seen how the Bruins typical win and it is NOT by being conservative. Yes, throughout the season they cause teams to turn it over in the neutral zone and then counter attack, but NOT through a classic sit back, prevent style of play.

What the Bruins do best is forecheck hard, and have the D stand up before their own blue line, disrupting and denying entries with the help of a hard back check as well. Then a quick up or reload usually follows. Without a heavy forecheck those same D have to back off, as the Leafs D have plenty of time to make a play hitting their forwards with speed.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Sounds like a bit of a mea culpa from Cassidy today regarding our team's game plan that has had a lack of intensity/forechecking/anything.

Win or lose, this is what we need to see from Boston:

"I'd rather much rather see us be on our toes, play assertive, play with urgency and it not go our way. That's what we've done all year," Cassidy said. "We've been pretty much a team that plays on our toes. You win some and you lose some. We won a lot more than we lost, but that's typically how we play, and I'd like to see us go back to our identity in that regard.
"Now some of that has been, 'Well, Toronto stretches the zone, we've got to be [aware],' so maybe there's just too much thinking and not enough ... playing, and that's kind of what we're up against now."

 

[trenton1]

Then perhaps a priority should be placed on drafting those type of players instead of Donato's, Bjork's and (dare I say it) Heinen's? Or more to the point instead of anAnderson, Lauko, Hall you pick some projects in that spot who could develop into a Josh Anderson, Matt Martin or Michael Ferland

In the new mold, that might just be Trent Frederic. He's going to be a gritty guy, especially for the modern NHL. Of course to get some size and toughness, they passed on a guy who has already hit 40 goals in Alex DeBrincat.

 

[Gintonicplz]

I was told Backes would be a difference maker

I was told that Kuraly would be a difference maker. All Athletic texts about his extra "energy" that Bruins were lacking till then. I hardly noticed him during game five..

 

[JoeIsAStud]

I was told that Kuraly would be a difference maker. All Athletic texts about his extra "energy" that Bruins were lacking till then. I hardly noticed him during game five..

is

well expecting a 4th liner who hadn't worn the sweater for a month coming off an injury to come in and be a savior seems like expectations that were out of control

 

[Gee Wally]

IMO, you're not wrong (check your PM).

I think we're on the same page here --rather than getting the cheaper guy from the discount pile, I would have rather paid more and got way more (back when Schenn was being shopped).

I dunno.... I just paid to get the Trailhawk version on my new Jeep; it made the price-tag significantly higher but I don't mind paying more to get the upgraded, tougher version that will be a better vehicle for me and my needs. Feels like the Bruins go looking for a deal on the base model car in the used lot (but still managed to overpay on Nash last year with an odometer about to turn over). Stempniak, Gionta etc.

I have a Trailhawk.
You chose wisely.


Carry on.

 

[Pia8988]

So are you saying it's a coaching decision?

I mean, if G2 proves they're capable of being physical, then one of 2 things must be true: Either they aren't hitting because they're too soft to sustain that kind of play or they aren't hitting because it's not in their game plan.

I think they got scared of the breakaways and switched to a much more passive style.

Don't get caught up ice.
Don't let them behind you.
Bruins seem all too happy to sit back and just try to keep everything to the outside.

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

I get all kind of **** for my affinity for Heinen, but I believe that he could fill that hole on the 2nd line, had he been given the opportunity to play there all year.

That said, I would have felt even more comfortable had the B’s been able to keep Heinen, but acquire a guy like Schenn (instead of say MoJo). Then they would have had a more proven solution in the Top 6 and Heinen on the 3rd line where he could be more effective.

My only concern with Heinen is his ability to take top 6 pressure. For the rest i see the same as you.... and i do think he has the tool to be top 6 for the exception of his mental disposition taking that role.

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

I think they got scared of the breakaways and switched to a much more passive style.

Don't get caught up ice.
Don't let them behind you.
Bruins seem all too happy to sit back and just try to keep everything to the outside.

This could really be right.

 

[LouJersey]

This is creating a false dilemma, in which the solution is oversimplified.

Obviously* anybody would take the grittier version of each player --that, indeed, goes without saying. That is like saying anybody would take the 2019 version of a car model over the exact same 2015 version.

Uhhh, yup. We need to look and prioritize which model we are buying in the first place.

Bruins haven’t been able to draft those guys well wasting picks on MacDermid, Hargrove, Dempsey and Gabrielle. I remember everyone here wanted them to draft Hunter Smith, where is he at? Columbus lucked out with Anderson so it’s not like we haven’t tried to find the same type player

Bruins have also gone for size in Senyshyn, DeBrusk and Frederic trying to up the grit factor. Zboril was a guy as well drafted for his all around game/grit and only JDB is lighting it up.

I just think guys like Wilson and Reaves just don’t really exist all that much or every team would have one.

 

[member 96824]

IMO, you're not wrong (check your PM).

I think we're on the same page here --rather than getting the cheaper guy from the discount pile, I would have rather paid more and got way more (back when Schenn was being shopped).

I dunno.... I just paid to get the Trailhawk version on my new Jeep; it made the price-tag significantly higher but I don't mind paying more to get the upgraded, tougher version that will be a better vehicle for me and my needs. Feels like the Bruins go looking for a deal on the base model car in the used lot (but still managed to overpay on Nash last year with an odometer about to turn over). Stempniak, Gionta etc.

Hard to disagree here.

Most of the “wow that was a big price” deals turn out to be..not that big of a price when revisited. Most picks and prospects net out overvalued at the time.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Hard to disagree here.

Most of the “wow that was a big price” deals turn out to be..not that big of a price when revisited. Most picks and prospects net out overvalued at the time.

I still think Hoffman should have been their guy once Stone was out of the picture. Would have given Krejci another pure goal scorer to play with and solidified the top 6 without costing an arm & a leg.

 

[LSCII]

I agree, that's definitely a problem but I put that under the coach's approach. This defense shouldn't have to throw pucks away like Hnidy, Ward and McQuaid back in 2009. They've got the puck movers to do it, it just seems like option 1 is to get the puck into the neutral zone and force a turnover out there. I hate it. I hate that style and it's bothered me all year.

They've got a PMD and a stay at home type on every pair. The problem is that Chara and Carlo both get beat to the corner or half wall every time and TO is taking advantage of that slowness. No coaching is going to make a slow footed guy like Chara suddenly win a footrace. He simply doesn't have the skating ability to hang with the faster skating Leafs. If anything, the criticism should be that Chara is getting too much TOI, which Cassidy clearly tried to reduce last game. 19:32 in game one. 22:43 in game two. 20:33 in game three. 24:12 in game 4 and 16:43 last game.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Then perhaps a priority should be placed on drafting those type of players instead of Donato's, Bjork's and (dare I say it) Heinen's? Or more to the point instead of anAnderson, Lauko, Hall you pick some projects in that spot who could develop into a Josh Anderson, Matt Martin or Michael Ferland

I love how easy you make it seem like drafting these kinds of players are. I don't consider Matt Martin because he's not anything like the other two. He's a 4th line plug at best. It's funny you bring up Heinen who has proven he's an NHLer though he was a 4th round pick. That's a great success in the draft. Also, you're not familiar with Lauko, clearly. While he's only 6'0'', he plays with an edge, likes to get physical and has serious speed + skill. What's wrong with that as a draft pick?

God, your shtick is so tiring, dude. Get a new hobby.

 

[GordonHowe]

is

well expecting a 4th liner who hadn't worn the sweater for a month coming off an injury to come in and be a savior seems like expectations that were out of control

Yes. And it was a fractured hand, too.

It's a bit like asking Kevan Miller to fight when coming off a separated shoulder.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Fantastic to see Boston come out hitting again in the 1st period! Good things tend to happen when you forecheck hard...

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Hainsey *was knocked out of the game for 10+mins from that Accairi hit ---a hit that he went looking for and the same kind of hit he was peeling off of the rest of the series (other than game 2).

Playing short a D will wear down their other 5 as well.


Gee, it's almost like.... wait for it.... finishing off your hits in a playoff series is crucial!