Proposal: taking on Moulson

[Canuck Luck]

Hey expansion buddies, Canucks fan coming in peace! Just wanted to know what y'all would be willing to give up to get rid of that last year on Moulson's contract. I've heard the news of Buffalo's star players being unhappy with the losing culture. Having an additional 5M to bring in guys to help improve the team would definitely help.

As for my proposal, I'm basing it on past cap dump trades (see Bickell/Savard/Bolland)

How close would the 32nd overall pick + Moulson for a 1yr minor league contract be in y'alls eyes?

Now I know this is HFboards and no one here is in favour of giving up picks or prospects unless they've fallen out of favour or are coming out with the best player in the deal. However the biggest comparable of the 3 I mentioned above would be Savard. 1 year of LTIR cost a 2nd round pick and 2 contract slots for minor leaguers. Moulson cant be placed on LTIR so his trade value is less as that is cap space lost on top of actual dollars as his contract is not paid out by an insurance company.

Click to read more...

 

[Tatanka]

We have no real cap issues. 32oa is ludicrous.

 

[Yatzhee]

Moulson contract is really a non factor right now. We can eat that last year. We're not in cap trouble. And he's buried in the AHL.
Bogosain, Pominville, now let's talk.
Just my take on it.

 

[Kyndig]

Sabres lack depth at nearly every position, they really shouldn't be trading the 32nd overall pick (which is like a late first) to get rid of contracts that end in one more year like Moulson or Pominville.

 

[5 Minute Major]

We have no cap issues and there is a possibility he may retire.

So, with saying that, I’d give you a 2018 3rd.

 

[Jame]

Bogosian for Gagner

 

[Canuck Luck]

We have no real cap issues. 32oa is ludicrous.

I never said Buffalo has any cap issues. I know yall have 19M to play with (after burying Moulson) to sign 10 guys, 2 of which are goalies. Im just basing this off past cap dump trades. Florida didnt have any cap issues when they decided they no longer want the burden of Savard's final year.

Moulson contract is really a non factor right now. We can eat that last year. We're not in cap trouble. And he's buried in the AHL.
Bogosain, Pominville, now let's talk.
Just my take on it.

Fair enough. I figured since Buffalo has been rebuilding for 7-8 years now (bottom 10 finishes 6 years in a row), their star players voicing their concerns about the losing culture that has developed and how it has negatively affected their play and morale, that the additional 4M in cap space to improve the roster would be worth it.

I would be open to replacing Moulson for Pominville in this offer. I thought Pominville actually had a little value for you guys since he's on your 3rd line I believe? While Moulson has been buried even though their cap hits are only 600k apart.

Bogosian would probably cost more to take on. He had a major injury that kept him out almost the entire year. Who knows how he will be when he returns. Also have to take into consideration how injury prone he has been his whole career.

Sabres lack depth at nearly every position, they really shouldn't be trading the 32nd overall pick (which is like a late first) to get rid of contracts that end in one more year like Moulson or Pominville.

Fair enough. This is more so the value. Buying 4M in cap space for a 2nd round pick (lets call it what it is, it is the 1st overall selection in the 2nd round, a late 1st isnt like an early 2nd in my eyes so an early 2nd isnt like a late 1st). Obviously being a fan, we dont put too much emphasis on building a good culture in the locker room and team morale. We treat it more like oh if we just assemble good players eventually the team will be good. I myself do that too a lot of the time. I know not a single Sabres fan will want to do this trade which I basically mentioned in the OP.

My point is given the circumstances of the morale and culture of the locker room, is the value of buying 4M in cap space to improve the roster and trying to build a winning culture, for the 1st selection in the 2nd round, fair value? Now it would depend on what that cap space is used on, but just having that additional flexibility on top of whats already available. Or do you guys feel that theres already enough cap space available to turnover the roster to try and improve the overall situation.

An example for the Canucks is 2 years ago when Sbisa had 1 year left at 3.6M and Dorsett had 2 at 2.5M (Vegas expansion was not set) I was willing to add a 3rd to either player to shed that salary in order for the Canucks to turnover the roster more to get rid of the lackadaisical product on ice. I deemed that losing out on that early 3rd round pick was well worth the chance the additional cap space received could help improve the overall situation of the team

 

[Canuck Luck]

We have no cap issues and there is a possibility he may retire.

So, with saying that, I’d give you a 2018 3rd.

There is no way Moulson retires. Even if he is not healthy, he will get paid 5M to sit at home whereas retiring means he loses out on 5M. I think thats just wishful thinking. He may unofficially retire (like Pronger/Savard/Dorsett/Bolland/Bickell/Ohlund and many others) but his cap hit and salary stay on the books.

Bogosian for Gagner

If Buffalo held salary to even out the cap hits, I would do it. Other than that its a lateral move that adds an additional 2M in cap and salary. To which there needs to be a benefit for the Canucks to do that

 

[haseoke39]

Somebody post the little table with our favorite buyout candidates and how much we save. Thought we were looking pretty flexible if we wanted to clear cap that way.

 

[valet]

definitely not

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yea it makes a little sense with bogosian or pominville, but we aren't in any position to give away something that valuable. We aren't against the cap and we aren't a budget team

32nd overall is an absolute no go

 

[haseoke39]

Somebody post the little table with our favorite buyout candidates and how much we save. Thought we were looking pretty flexible if we wanted to clear cap that way.

Sure thing, buddy, it's in the OP here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/buyout-conversations-bogo-pommer-beaulieu.2468299/

 

[Jame]

I never said Buffalo has any cap issues. I know yall have 19M to play with (after burying Moulson) to sign 10 guys, 2 of which are goalies. Im just basing this off past cap dump trades. Florida didnt have any cap issues when they decided they no longer want the burden of Savard's final year.

Florida has an internal spending cap, Buffalo doesn’t

Fair enough. I figured since Buffalo has been rebuilding for 7-8 years now (bottom 10 finishes 6 years in a row), their star players voicing their concerns about the losing culture that has developed and how it has negatively affected their play and morale, that the additional 4M in cap space to improve the roster would be worth it.

You know how many bottom 10 finishes we have? How??? Who told you.

I would be open to replacing Moulson for Pominville in this offer. I thought Pominville actually had a little value for you guys since he's on your 3rd line I believe? While Moulson has been buried even though their cap hits are only 600k apart.

We can buyout Pominville, create cap space, and not give away an important rebuilding asset

Bogosian would probably cost more to take on. He had a major injury that kept him out almost the entire year. Who knows how he will be when he returns. Also have to take into consideration how injury prone he has been his whole career.

Bogo was injured this year and is injury prone? Thanks for informing us.

Fair enough. This is more so the value. Buying 4M in cap space for a 2nd round pick (lets call it what it is, it is the 1st overall selection in the 2nd round, a late 1st isnt like an early 2nd in my eyes so an early 2nd isnt like a late 1st). Obviously being a fan, we dont put too much emphasis on building a good culture in the locker room and team morale. We treat it more like oh if we just assemble good players eventually the team will be good. I myself do that too a lot of the time. I know not a single Sabres fan will want to do this trade which I basically mentioned in the OP.

Not a single Sabres fan would want to do this trade... because it’s dumb.

It’s a total waste of asset, to get rid of a guy we got rid of 5 months ago... your asking for the 32nd overall pick for cap space (20% of which we already gained through burying him in the minors)

My point is given the circumstances of the morale and culture of the locker room, is the value of buying 4M in cap space to improve the roster and trying to build a winning culture, for the 1st selection in the 2nd round, fair value?

No. The answer is no. The point your trying to make is nonsense.

Now it would depend on what that cap space is used on, but just having that additional flexibility on top of whats already available. Or do you guys feel that theres already enough cap space available to turnover the roster to try and improve the overall situation.

There is enough cap space, and more can be created through buyouts.

The pick is significantly more important to improving the roster, than creating cap space

An example for the Canucks is 2 years ago when Sbisa had 1 year left at 3.6M and Dorsett had 2 at 2.5M (Vegas expansion was not set) I was willing to add a 3rd to either player to shed that salary in order for the Canucks to turnover the roster more to get rid of the lackadaisical product on ice. I deemed that losing out on that early 3rd round pick was well worth the chance the additional cap space received could help improve the overall situation of the team

Tell us more about how you were willing to give a 3rd to rid contracts, but expect the 32nd pick in return....

 

[Jame]

There is no way Moulson retires. Even if he is not healthy, he will get paid 5M to sit at home whereas retiring means he loses out on 5M. I think thats just wishful thinking. He may unofficially retire (like Pronger/Savard/Dorsett/Bolland/Bickell/Ohlund and many others) but his cap hit and salary stay on the books.


If Buffalo held salary to even out the cap hits, I would do it. Other than that its a lateral move that adds an additional 2M in cap and salary. To which there needs to be a benefit for the Canucks to do that

Moulson will get paid 3 million to sit at home....

Bogo (no retention) and a 3rd round pick for Gagner

You already verified that clearing 2 years of 2.5 million per, was worth a 3rd round pick. This trade clears Buffalo of 2 years ~2 million per

 

[Husko]

I’d do a fourth and Moulson at 50% retained for a minor leaguer.

 

[Husko]

I don’t think Moulson retiring after his bonus pays is out of the question at all. Riding the bus in the AHL can’t be that pleasant

 

[Jame]

I don’t think Moulson retiring after his bonus pays is out of the question at all. Riding the bus in the AHL can’t be that pleasant

It’s definitely possible.

He gets a 1 million bonus, and then retires/forgoes the 2 million salary.

 

[Canuck Luck]

Florida has an internal spending cap, Buffalo doesn’t






You know how many bottom 10 finishes we have? How??? Who told you.



We can buyout Pominville, create cap space, and not give away an important rebuilding asset



Bogo was injured this year and is injury prone? Thanks for informing us.





Not a single Sabres fan would want to do this trade... because it’s dumb.

It’s a total waste of asset, to get rid of a guy we got rid of 5 months ago... your asking for the 32nd overall pick for cap space (20% of which we already gained through burying him in the minors)



No. The answer is no. The point your trying to make is nonsense.



There is enough cap space, and more can be created through buyouts.

The pick is significantly more important to improving the roster, than creating cap space



Tell us more about how you were willing to give a 3rd to rid contracts, but expect the 32nd pick in return....

I dont see why theres a need for hostility, Im bringing up points I feel like could factor in the organization's decisions for such a trade and having a discussion about values. To the point of the buyout, I did not factor that in. Reason being thats a big ask for the owner. I know in the past your owner has said he's willing to spend as much as needed, but given how the franchise has performed, would that still be the case?

Now when you compare Sbisa to Moulson, one being a capable 3rd pairing d-man making 1.4M less and the other being an AHL player the team doesnt even want on their own minor league team. Add to that the difference of the picks being 30 spots (32nd compared to 62nd). You act as if thats not enough to move Sbisa, but then think the OP offer is outrageous, it just tells me to ignore your opinions.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I dont see why theres a need for hostility, Im bringing up points I feel like could factor in the organization's decisions for such a trade and having a discussion about values. To the point of the buyout, I did not factor that in. Reason being thats a big ask for the owner. I know in the past your owner has said he's willing to spend as much as needed, but given how the franchise has performed, would that still be the case?

Now when you compare Sbisa to Moulson, one being a capable 3rd pairing d-man making 1.4M less and the other being an AHL player the team doesnt even want on their own minor league team. Add to that the difference of the picks being 30 spots (32nd compared to 62nd). You act as if thats not enough to move Sbisa, but then think the OP offer is outrageous, it just tells me to ignore your opinions.

We’re all telling you the 32nd overall is a bit outrageous! That’s way too much to make sense for Buffalo

 

[haseoke39]

I dont see why theres a need for hostility, Im bringing up points I feel like could factor

Jame responds like this when the waitress tells him the soup of the day, don't take it personally.

 

[Jame]

I dont see why theres a need for hostility, Im bringing up points I feel like could factor in the organization's decisions for such a trade and having a discussion about values. To the point of the buyout, I did not factor that in. Reason being thats a big ask for the owner. I know in the past your owner has said he's willing to spend as much as needed, but given how the franchise has performed, would that still be the case?

Now when you compare Sbisa to Moulson, one being a capable 3rd pairing d-man making 1.4M less and the other being an AHL player the team doesnt even want on their own minor league team. Add to that the difference of the picks being 30 spots (32nd compared to 62nd). You act as if thats not enough to move Sbisa, but then think the OP offer is outrageous, it just tells me to ignore your opinions.

I’ll be hostile to other teams fans trying to fansplain (with incomplete and inaccurate information) on our board

Save that drivel for the trade board.

 

[Jame]

Jame responds like this when the waitress tells him the soup of the day, don't take it personally.

Waitress: “It’s the soup du jour”

Me: “GOD DAMMIt!!!!”

 

[haseoke39]

Waitress: “It’s the soup du jour”

Me: “GOD DAMMIt!!!!”

"I guarantee you nobody in this restaurant is going to want that soup. FACT. The arguments in favor of it are nonsense. That you would even charge for that soup just shows that you haven't bothered to inform yourself of the relevant facts, as it would be a complete waste of an asset on my part to pay you. Now what's the chef special, please?"

 

[Jame]

"I guarantee you nobody in this restaurant is going to want that soup. FACT. The arguments in favor of it are nonsense. That you would even charge for that soup just shows that you haven't bothered to inform yourself of the relevant facts, as it would be a complete waste of an asset on my part to pay you. Now what's the chef special, please?"

“I’m the f***ing restaurant manager, I know it’s broccoli cheddar... stop telling me it’s the soup du jour”

 

[Chainshot]

*Opens thread, sees someone has brought up Bogosian and it went about as planned....

Yeah, Buffalo isn't in a dire need to shift cap space right now.

Could we interest you in a lightly used Beaulieu? He's only 24, plenty of tread left on those tires. Hello....? Helllo....? I think the line may have gone dead.