Sundin or Kariya- who is better?

[Leaf Lander]

Sundin or Kariya- who is better?

will either of them make the hall of fame?

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[finchster]

Kariya had a much better peak and Sundin had have a longer career (I don't think Kariya will be around much longer). I like Kariya over Sundin

 

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

Paul Kariya.

 

[DayWalk3r]

Kariya was better (at their respective peaks)

 

[Warden of the North]

Sundin.

No support, carried the Leafs for the most of the last 20 years all by himself. Give him good wingers and he would have been truely dominate.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Kariya was better, but Sundin has a better chance at the HOF due to longevity, career numbers (due to longevity), and the fact that he played for an O6 franchise.

 

[Morozov]

Peak - Kariya
Career - Sundin

When I judge who was better, I personally judge more on that peak value, provided it wasn't just a single season anomaly. So I go with Kariya here, but Sundin has the better chance at HOF for obvious reasons.

 

[Leaf Lander]

what did kariya and sundin contribute during their career to their teams
who were the 3 best players on their teams
how old were their linemates
how far did each player get in the playoffs
what are their top 5 points finishes
Top 5 goal finishes
how durable were they
how consistent?
best nhl season?
total points?

 

[Reds4Life]

I'd take Sundin over Kariya any day.

 

[Fredrik_71]

I also take Sundin at this stage. To bad Kariya never really came back after Stevens blindsided him. He wasn't even close to the puck when it happened but thats another story.

/Cheers

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Career, peak whatever ... give me Sundin without question.

 

[seventieslord]

Really tough one.

Those who say it's easily Sundin are forgetting just how dominant and dazzling Kariya was in 96-2000.

 

[thefifthsedin*]

sundin could be the most clutch monster there was

here's only one example



but that toronto team was truly mediocre

 

[Dark Shadows]

Peak? Kariya
Career? Sundin

In the playoffs? Sundin

Sundin.

No support, carried the Leafs for the most of the last 20 years all by himself. Give him good wingers and he would have been truely dominate.

I doubt he would have scored much more with different wingers. Sundin thrived on being the man for his team.

His points did not all of the sudden shoot through the roof when he started lining up with Mogilny, and Mogilny was a large upgrade over the Steve thomas' and Jonas Hoglund's.

 

[Leaf Lander]

mogilny had unmeasurable talent but his heart wasn't the same size as stumpy thomas's which would make them about equals linemates imo

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I also take Sundin at this stage. To bad Kariya never really came back after Stevens blindsided him. He wasn't even close to the puck when it happened but thats another story.

/Cheers

I still get mad when I see that hit. It was slightly late, probably borderline in that respect, but was clearly a forearm to the face rather than a shoulder.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I still get mad when I see that hit. It was slightly late, probably borderline in that respect, but was clearly a forearm to the face rather than a shoulder.

The upper half of Stevens' arm hit Kariya's head, not the forearm. Steven's elbow was lower than Kariya's head. It was about half a second after Kariya got rid of the puck, which as you said, is borderline between clean hit and interference.

And Gary Suter's cheapshot had a much more lasting effect on Kariya's career than Stevens' hit. After the Suter hit, Kariya became afraid to go into the dangerous areas of the ice and he was never the same.

 

[Reds4Life]

Peak? Kariya
Career? Sundin

In the playoffs? Sundin




I doubt he would have scored much more with different wingers. Sundin thrived on being the man for his team.

His points did not all of the sudden shoot through the roof when he started lining up with Mogilny, and Mogilny was a large upgrade over the Steve thomas' and Jonas Hoglund's.

He would have scored more with better defensemen behind him.
He played on weak teams for majority of his career, and was by far the best player most of the time. He still dominated and was a very clutch player.

 

[poeman]

Ill give it to Sundin...Kariya was exciting though

Now if it was Bure vs Sundin then I'd go with Bure.

 

[Dark Shadows]

mogilny had unmeasurable talent but his heart wasn't the same size as stumpy thomas's which would make them about equals linemates imo

Oh come on now......

Mogilny was light years ahead of Thomas, heart or no Heart. Thomas was not Doug Gilmour. Mogilny had just completed a season playing in Trap NJ, while scoring 43 goals and 83 points in the dead puck era and helped give Elias his best year ever.

 

[Dark Shadows]

He would have scored more with better defensemen behind him.
He played on weak teams for majority of his career, and was by far the best player most of the time. He still dominated and was a very clutch player.

His numbers did not explode suddenly with Larry Murphy or Mathieu Schneider making the outlet passes either.

Both players played for weak teams.

Hell, Kariya actually scored his best before Selanne arrived with zero help. 50 goals and 108 points when the highest scoring teammate had 44 points

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Oh come on now......

Mogilny was light years ahead of Thomas, heart or no Heart. Thomas was not Doug Gilmour. Mogilny had just completed a season playing in Trap NJ, while scoring 43 goals and 83 points in the dead puck era and helped give Elias his best year ever.

NJ 00-01 was the highest scoring team of the entire dead puck era, so I'm not sure what you mean by "Trap NJ." The Devils under Larry Robinson played a much more offensive style than they did under Lemaire or Burns.

Also, Mogilny never played with Elias, not even on the powerplay. NJ's first PP unit was Elias-Holik-Sykora-Arnott-Rafalski. Mogilny played with Gomez on the 2nd line and 2nd PP unit.

Agree with the big point that Mogilny was a lot better than Thomas, and that he was certainly good enough to be considered a "good" linemate for Sundin.

 

[Dark Shadows]

NJ 00-01 was the highest scoring team of the entire dead puck era, so I'm not sure what you mean by "Trap NJ." Also, Mogilny never played with Elias, not even on the powerplay. NJ's first PP unit was Elias-Holik-Sykora-Arnott-Rafalski. Mogilny played with Gomez on the 2nd line and 2nd PP unit.

Agree with the big point that Mogilny was a lot better than Thomas, and that he was certainly good enough to be considered a "good" linemate for Sundin.

I say "Trap NJ" because while they had a great year offensively, the system of play they employed better than anyone tended to negatively affect individual scoring, while prompting better team scoring.

I admit, I simply assumed where Mogilny and Elias were concerned. I did not catch many NJ games that year outside of the playoffs.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Sundin is Better

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

NJ 00-01 was the highest scoring team of the entire dead puck era, so I'm not sure what you mean by "Trap NJ." The Devils under Larry Robinson played a much more offensive style than they did under Lemaire or Burns.

Also, Mogilny never played with Elias, not even on the powerplay. NJ's first PP unit was Elias-Holik-Sykora-Arnott-Rafalski. Mogilny played with Gomez on the 2nd line and 2nd PP unit.

Agree with the big point that Mogilny was a lot better than Thomas, and that he was certainly good enough to be considered a "good" linemate for Sundin.

You can still score lots while playing a trapping defensive game. Thats why New Jersey was good.

Thats what I remember most about the 2001 finals. The Devils were so well coached and disciplined, if they had a chance to forecheck and create a turnover they were all over the Avs. If they didnt they all stayed back and played perfect defense.

Playing strong defensively and being strong offensively arent mutually exclusive. The Devils did both.