Speculation: Summer 2019 pending UFAs/RFAs

[Sharksrule04]

Karlsson has a much, much larger impact on the game than Couture does.

To make things very very simple, Karlsson and a player making league minimum are far more valuable than two Logan Coutures.

You can absolutely ice a quality lineup with Karlsson making league maximum.

Completely disagree, and I'd think as a Sharks fan you wouldn't think that. Just look at our teams from the McLellan era or the caps teams of the past 10-15 years. They were top heavy with some of the best players in the league and won nothing because the depth of those d units and forward units were garbage/mediocre. You need 4 lines and 3 pairs to win the cup these days and paying Karlsson and some scrub a combined 16M, or getting two 30 goal scorers who are very good two way clutch players, you go with the 2 Couture's. Either that or you're just super underrating Couture/overrating Karlsson.

 

[Barrie22]

Completely disagree, and I'd think as a Sharks fan you wouldn't think that. Just look at our teams from the McLellan era or the caps teams of the past 10-15 years. They were top heavy with some of the best players in the league and won nothing because the depth of those d units and forward units were garbage/mediocre. You need 4 lines and 3 pairs to win the cup these days and paying Karlsson and some scrub a combined 16M, or getting two 30 goal scorers who are very good two way clutch players, you go with the 2 Couture's. Either that or you're just super underrating Couture/overrating Karlsson.

Karlsson took a scrub built ottawa team to 1 goal from being in the cup finals. That team didn't have 3 good pairings or 4 good lines. It barely had 1 good line and karlsson.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Completely disagree, and I'd think as a Sharks fan you wouldn't think that. Just look at our teams from the McLellan era or the caps teams of the past 10-15 years. They were top heavy with some of the best players in the league and won nothing because the depth of those d units and forward units were garbage/mediocre. You need 4 lines and 3 pairs to win the cup these days and paying Karlsson and some scrub a combined 16M, or getting two 30 goal scorers who are very good two way clutch players, you go with the 2 Couture's. Either that or you're just super underrating Couture/overrating Karlsson.

If any one of the top players on those top heavy teams had a playoff run that was on par with Erik Karlsson’s 2016-2017 playoff performance, we would have won a Stanley Cup.

Also, not a single team in the McLellan era had a single player of Erik Karlsson’s caliber. The only years where we have had a Karlsson caliber player were 2005-2006 with Thornton and 2016-2017 with Burns and in 2016-2017, Burns fell off a cliff during the playoffs.

 

[Sharksrule04]

Karlsson took a scrub built ottawa team to 1 goal from being in the cup finals. That team didn't have 3 good pairings or 4 good lines. It barely had 1 good line and karlsson.

That's not winning a Stanley Cup though... My point is 1 player doesn't win a cup and paying a single player like Karlsson 16M limits your ability to fill up the roster with good players. I love Karlsson and couldn't be happier to have him in teal but I just don't take him and say Demelo for 16M over two Coutures at 8M each.

 

[Lebanezer]

If any one of the top players on those top heavy teams had a playoff run that was on par with Erik Karlsson’s 2016-2017 playoff performance, we would have won a Stanley Cup.

Also, not a single team in the McLellan era had a single player of Erik Karlsson’s caliber. The only years where we have had a Karlsson caliber player were 2005-2006 with Thornton and 2016-2017 with Burns and in 2016-2017, Burns fell off a cliff during the playoffs.

People may want to debate this, but Erik Karlsson is the best player the Sharks have now until proven otherwise.

 

[Sharksrule04]

If any one of the top players on those top heavy teams had a playoff run that was on par with Erik Karlsson’s 2016-2017 playoff performance, we would have won a Stanley Cup.

Also, not a single team in the McLellan era had a single player of Erik Karlsson’s caliber. The only years where we have had a Karlsson caliber player were 2005-2006 with Thornton and 2016-2017 with Burns and in 2016-2017, Burns fell off a cliff during the playoffs.

Disagree. Thornton for many of those seasons was 100% the caliber of player that Karlsson is.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

People may want to debate this, but Erik Karlsson is the best player the Sharks have now until proven otherwise.

Are you talking best of all time or just best right now? I don't think anybody is debating that he is the best right now.

Disagree. Thornton for many of those seasons was 100% the caliber of player that Karlsson is.

Nope, only 05-06, 06-07, and 15-16. And in that time frame, he never had a playoff performance like Karlsson's in 16-17; he was never close in the playoffs.

 

[Lebanezer]

Are you talking best of all time or just best right now? I don't think anybody is debating that he is the best right now.

Right now. My point was also that him making significantly more than anyone else on the roster shouldn’t be surprising. Just like if Joe 10 years ago had been making significantly more than Marleau. Joe is just special though.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Completely disagree, and I'd think as a Sharks fan you wouldn't think that. Just look at our teams from the McLellan era or the caps teams of the past 10-15 years. They were top heavy with some of the best players in the league and won nothing because the depth of those d units and forward units were garbage/mediocre. You need 4 lines and 3 pairs to win the cup these days and paying Karlsson and some scrub a combined 16M, or getting two 30 goal scorers who are very good two way clutch players, you go with the 2 Couture's. Either that or you're just super underrating Couture/overrating Karlsson.

They were top heavy in the sense that they had a franchise-caliber center and (sometimes) goaltender who would both fall to pieces come the playoffs.

 

[Agent Zub]

That's not winning a Stanley Cup though... My point is 1 player doesn't win a cup and paying a single player like Karlsson 16M limits your ability to fill up the roster with good players. I love Karlsson and couldn't be happier to have him in teal but I just don't take him and say Demelo for 16M over two Coutures at 8M each.

You're severely underrating Karlsson.

Karlsson carried a literal lottery team to one goal of the finals. He took the eventual cup champs to 7 Game double OT. Few players in NHL history could have done what Karlsson did that season and playoffs. That team had no business being anywhere near the Stanley Cup and one player playing on a broken foot almost singlehandidly willed them to it. I know you maybe saying that it was a team effort or the system or something. It wasn't, his best teammate during that run was Bobby Ryan and the system was to basically hang on for dear life for half the game that ek wasn't on the ice for.

The karlsson on/off ice splits are ridiculous. The Sens were the best team with him on the ice and the worst with him off.

Ottawa: 47GF 50GA
Karlsson ON: 32GF 16 GA
Karlsson OFF: 15 GF 34 GA

Also on the ice for 10/11 GWG.

Healthy EK is by far the best all around player in the league. And really perhaps the only one who could carry a team to a championship. Because for the 30 minutes you have him on the ice you have cheat codes.

But really you don't have to take my word for it.



You're gonna see dozens of Coutures play on your favourite team in your lifetime. But you'd be lucky to see one Karlsson.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

They were top heavy in the sense that they had a franchise-caliber center and (sometimes) goaltender who would both fall to pieces come the playoffs.

Yup. If Thornton, Heatley, and Marleau all scored over a point per game in the playoffs like they did in the regular season, the Sharks would have won at least one championship.

Remember, Nabokov never lost a playoff series where his team averaged over 2 goals per game.

You're severely underrating Karlsson.

Karlsson carried a literal lottery team to one goal of the finals. He took the eventual cup champs to 7 Game double OT. Few players in NHL history could have done what Karlsson did that season and playoffs. That team had no business being anywhere near the Stanley Cup and one player playing on a broken foot almost singlehandidly willed them to it. I know you maybe saying that it was a team effort or the system or something. It wasn't, his best teammate during that run was Bobby Ryan and the system was to basically hang on for dear life for half the game that ek wasn't on the ice for.

The karlsson on/off ice splits are ridiculous. The Sens were the best team with him on the ice and the worst with him off.

Ottawa: 47GF 50GA
Karlsson ON: 32GF 16 GA
Karlsson OFF: 15 GF 34 GA

Also on the ice for 10/11 GWG.

Healthy EK is by far the best all around player in the league. And really perhaps the only one who could carry a team to a championship. Because for the 30 minutes you have him on the ice you have cheat codes.

But really you don't have to take my word for it.



You're gonna see dozens of Coutures play on your favourite team in your lifetime. But you'd be lucky to see one Karlsson.

Yup. Karlsson has been my favorite non-Shark for a while now so I can tell you this much is true, except I still think McDavid is a better player.

 

[Sharksrule04]

Are you talking best of all time or just best right now? I don't think anybody is debating that he is the best right now.



Nope, only 05-06, 06-07, and 15-16. And in that time frame, he never had a playoff performance like Karlsson's in 16-17; he was never close in the playoffs.

You can say "nope" all you want in a definitive way, but you have no evidence to back your statement and it's really something that can't be proven. Thornton was getting votes for Hart trophy every season between 2005 and 2010. Also the season we went to the SCF Thornton had arguably a comparable playoffs to Karlsson's in 16-17. I'd also say Burns playoffs that season was probably better than Karlsson's in 16-17. I can admit though that this is my opinion.

 

[Sharksrule04]

You're severely underrating Karlsson.

Karlsson carried a literal lottery team to one goal of the finals. He took the eventual cup champs to 7 Game double OT. Few players in NHL history could have done what Karlsson did that season and playoffs. That team had no business being anywhere near the Stanley Cup and one player playing on a broken foot almost singlehandidly willed them to it. I know you maybe saying that it was a team effort or the system or something. It wasn't, his best teammate during that run was Bobby Ryan and the system was to basically hang on for dear life for half the game that ek wasn't on the ice for.

The karlsson on/off ice splits are ridiculous. The Sens were the best team with him on the ice and the worst with him off.

Ottawa: 47GF 50GA
Karlsson ON: 32GF 16 GA
Karlsson OFF: 15 GF 34 GA

Also on the ice for 10/11 GWG.

Healthy EK is by far the best all around player in the league. And really perhaps the only one who could carry a team to a championship. Because for the 30 minutes you have him on the ice you have cheat codes.

But really you don't have to take my word for it.



You're gonna see dozens of Coutures play on your favourite team in your lifetime. But you'd be lucky to see one Karlsson.

I'm not underrating Karlsson, he's the best d-man in the game without a doubt in my mind. I just don't see the need to pay him 16M. If Doughty is making 11M and Burns is making 8M, then Karlsson should probably slot in around 11-12M. If anything, this conversation is underrating Couture or Thornton during his prime. I'm done arguing something so dumb though because it's ruining my excitement over getting the best dman in the league.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

You can say "nope" all you want in a definitive way, but you have no evidence to back your statement and it's really something that can't be proven. Thornton was getting votes for Hart trophy every season between 2005 and 2010. Also the season we went to the SCF Thornton had arguably a comparable playoffs to Karlsson's in 16-17. I'd also say Burns playoffs that season was probably better than Karlsson's in 16-17. I can admit though that this is my opinion.

Check Thornton’s GF/GA against Pittsburgh and specifically against Crosby/Malkin and then compare those numbers to Karlsson’s a year later. Thornton in the finals was literally the reason we lost, and he was what, 4th on his own team in scoring in those playoffs? Meanwhile, Karlsson led his team in scoring and had a higher PPG than Thornton as a defenseman carrying a team whose best other player in those playoffs was Bobby Ryan. If the Senators won the Cup in 2016-2017, Karlsson’s run would be talked about as a GOAT playoff performance. I love Burns and Thornton and I agree Burns’ 2016 playoff performance was incredible but there is not a single player in the NHL except for maybe 2009 Evgeni Malkin who boasts a playoff run that is comparable to Karlsson’s in 2016-2017.

Karlsson has been voted best at his position twice and 2nd best at his position twice and in the seasons he hasn’t been up there, it has almost always been due to injury. He also deserved to be voted best at his position in 2015-2016. Thornton meanwhile in his Sharks tenure has been voted best at his position once and has been voted 2nd best twice. That’s one more season in a shorter time frame that Karlsson was voted best in the NHL at his position and he would have easily been voted best at his position if not for his injury in 2013 and you can probably say the same for 2018 honestly. Karlsson has led defensemen in scoring like 5 times and Thornton has led centers in scoring once.

When you compare the performances of each player in key moments, such as the playoffs and international play, the gap is severely widened. Karlsson’s Olympic performance in 2014 and his playoff performance in 2017 are far, far ahead of anything that Thornton has ever done outside of regular season NHL hockey. Given that, I think it’s pretty easy to deem Erik Karlsson superior to Joe Thornton.

 

[Sharksrule04]

Check Thornton’s GF/GA against Pittsburgh and specifically against Crosby/Malkin and then compare those numbers to Karlsson’s a year later. Thornton in the finals was literally the reason we lost, and he was what, 4th on his own team in scoring in those playoffs? Meanwhile, Karlsson led his team in scoring and had a higher PPG than Thornton as a defenseman carrying a team whose best other player in those playoffs was Bobby Ryan. If the Senators won the Cup in 2016-2017, Karlsson’s run would be talked about as a GOAT playoff performance. I love Burns and Thornton and I agree Burns’ 2016 playoff performance was incredible but there is not a single player in the NHL except for maybe 2009 Evgeni Malkin who boasts a playoff run that is comparable to Karlsson’s in 2016-2017.

Karlsson has been voted best at his position twice and 2nd best at his position twice and in the seasons he hasn’t been up there, it has almost always been due to injury. He also deserved to be voted best at his position in 2015-2016. Thornton meanwhile in his Sharks tenure has been voted best at his position once and has been voted 2nd best twice. That’s one more season in a shorter time frame that Karlsson was voted best in the NHL at his position and he would have easily been voted best at his position if not for his injury in 2013 and you can probably say the same for 2018 honestly. Karlsson has led defensemen in scoring like 5 times and Thornton has led centers in scoring once.

When you compare the performances of each player in key moments, such as the playoffs and international play, the gap is severely widened. Karlsson’s Olympic performance in 2014 and his playoff performance in 2017 are far, far ahead of anything that Thornton has ever done outside of regular season NHL hockey. Given that, I think it’s pretty easy to deem Erik Karlsson superior to Joe Thornton.

Ok, you win.

 

[Bizz]

Check Thornton’s GF/GA against Pittsburgh and specifically against Crosby/Malkin and then compare those numbers to Karlsson’s a year later. Thornton in the finals was literally the reason we lost, and he was what, 4th on his own team in scoring in those playoffs? Meanwhile, Karlsson led his team in scoring and had a higher PPG than Thornton as a defenseman carrying a team whose best other player in those playoffs was Bobby Ryan. If the Senators won the Cup in 2016-2017, Karlsson’s run would be talked about as a GOAT playoff performance. I love Burns and Thornton and I agree Burns’ 2016 playoff performance was incredible but there is not a single player in the NHL except for maybe 2009 Evgeni Malkin who boasts a playoff run that is comparable to Karlsson’s in 2016-2017.

Karlsson has been voted best at his position twice and 2nd best at his position twice and in the seasons he hasn’t been up there, it has almost always been due to injury. He also deserved to be voted best at his position in 2015-2016. Thornton meanwhile in his Sharks tenure has been voted best at his position once and has been voted 2nd best twice. That’s one more season in a shorter time frame that Karlsson was voted best in the NHL at his position and he would have easily been voted best at his position if not for his injury in 2013 and you can probably say the same for 2018 honestly. Karlsson has led defensemen in scoring like 5 times and Thornton has led centers in scoring once.

When you compare the performances of each player in key moments, such as the playoffs and international play, the gap is severely widened. Karlsson’s Olympic performance in 2014 and his playoff performance in 2017 are far, far ahead of anything that Thornton has ever done outside of regular season NHL hockey. Given that, I think it’s pretty easy to deem Erik Karlsson superior to Joe Thornton.

You compared the playoff run of a World class Defenseman in his prime to a 37 year old...

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

You compared the playoff run of a World class Defenseman in his prime to a 37 year old...

That is the best playoff run of that 36 year old’s career. If you want to use a playoff run from literally any other age of his, it will only look worse.

 

[Agent Zub]

You can say "nope" all you want in a definitive way, but you have no evidence to back your statement and it's really something that can't be proven. Thornton was getting votes for Hart trophy every season between 2005 and 2010. Also the season we went to the SCF Thornton had arguably a comparable playoffs to Karlsson's in 16-17. I'd also say Burns playoffs that season was probably better than Karlsson's in 16-17. I can admit though that this is my opinion.

If you guy had two player performing at Karlsson 2017 level you'd have won the cup in 16 games.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Thornton in the Final was the reason we lost? A guy who lost one of the linemates of the best line in hockey in the first game? A guy who had to be saddled with a garbage D-pairing because they couldn't be trusted with a worse line? Remember, he had as many points as Crosby in the Final.

Christ, Sharks fans are almost as bad as others when trying to justify why Thornton is a tin man chocker

 

[Used As A Shield]

Thornton in the Final was the reason we lost? A guy who lost one of the linemates of the best line in hockey in the first game? A guy who had to be saddled with a garbage D-pairing because they couldn't be trusted with a worse line? Remember, he had as many points as Crosby in the Final.

Christ, Sharks fans are almost as bad as others when trying to justify why Thornton is a tin man chocker

Thorton*

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Thornton in the Final was the reason we lost? A guy who lost one of the linemates of the best line in hockey in the first game? A guy who had to be saddled with a garbage D-pairing because they couldn't be trusted with a worse line? Remember, he had as many points as Crosby in the Final.

Christ, Sharks fans are almost as bad as others when trying to justify why Thornton is a tin man chocker

Outside of goals that were scored at 5-on-5 with Joe Thornton on the ice, the Sharks scored more goals than the Penguins in the Cup Finals.

Crosby had one more point, and his performance was quite honestly disappointing; his Conn Smythe was the least deserved of any I’ve ever seen. But at least he came up even in GF% in that series. That was the difference in the series.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Outside of goals that were scored at 5-on-5 with Joe Thornton on the ice, the Sharks scored more goals than the Penguins in the Cup Finals.

Crosby had one more point, and his performance was quite honestly disappointing; his Conn Smythe was the least deserved of any I’ve ever seen. But at least he came up even in GF% in that series. That was the difference in the series.

Cool, good thing that Thornton is one out of 5 guys on the ice at any one time. Most of the time 5v5, he was pretty much guaranteed to be with any combination of Pavelski, Karlsson, Dillon, and Polak.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Cool, good thing that Thornton is one out of 5 guys on the ice at any one time. Most of the time 5v5, he was pretty much guaranteed to be with any combination of Pavelski, Karlsson, Dillon, and Polak.

Right, and so it’s probably an unfair oversimplification to say that Thornton cost us the series, but compared to Karlsson’s 2016-2017 run, Thornton looks absolutely horrible in every single one of his playoff runs including the very best of his career.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Right, and so it’s probably an unfair oversimplification to say that Thornton cost us the series, but compared to Karlsson’s 2016-2017 run, Thornton looks absolutely horrible in every single one of his playoff runs including the very best of his career.

That's quite a bit of unfair hyperbole, while we're talking about generalizations.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

That's quite a bit of unfair hyperbole, while we're talking about generalizations.

Not when compared to Karlsson in 2016-2017. Karlsson carried a cap floor lottery team to game 7 of the ECF.