Speculation: Summer 2018 Roster Discussion Part IV

[WTFetus]

The Heatley for Havlat trade was a great trade though. DW couldn't predict those fluke injuries.

 

[hohosaregood]

They were, but it doesn’t change that the facts firmly stand in the way of the idea that DW can trade any contract. Especially when you use Heatley as evidence of that when we literally traded Heatley, a 39 goal scorer we paid a solid collection of assets for, for a guy we ended up buying out 3 years later.



Because they won’t. Guys like Couture, Kane, Burns, Vlasic, and Jones will probably keep us a decent enough team to be like 5th in our division instead of 7th or 8th once they decline a bit and the Joes (who have been carrying this team for years) are gone.

We are currently in the 2013-2018 Minnesota Wild section of purgatory. Those contracts will probably send us into the 2010-2014 Calgary Flames section of purgatory.

Wow, you expect a lot out of mediocre declining players. How are you even calling 2010-2014 Calgary a purgatory team? They had two top 6 picks in that time period. I would call that a rebuild that failed.

 

[Juxtaposer]

The Heatley for Havlat trade was a great trade though. DW couldn't predict those fluke injuries.

While that is true on the whole, it’s not like Havlat had a history of impeccable health.

 

[Lebanezer]

While that is true on the whole, it’s not like Havlat had a history of impeccable health.

Neither did Heatley, they both turned into corpses almost simultaneously.

Edit: they decomposed at essentially the same rate.

 

[Bleedred]

It's funny to think about how there are currently older players in the league than Havlat and Heatley (although not many), yet they've been out of the league for years now.

 

[WSS11]

Havlats time in SJ in a nutshell

 

[Barrie22]

Havlats time in SJ in a nutshell

Havlats career

 

[Maladroit]

Havlat still had a better Sharks career than Boedker, regular season and playoffs.

 

[Pavelski2112]

We're at the point of the offseason where we're talking about Havlat now.

Lord help me.

 

[Coily]

We're at the point of the offseason where we're talking about Havlat now.

Lord help me.

and I thought the on-going discussion of grammar was the low point..

 

[tiburon12]

and I thought the on-going discussion of grammar was the low point..

at least grammar is important and perma-relevant

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I only told you what I saw on nhl.com...and 61th in playoff P/60 over 8 seasons is pretty good...whether you like it or not...

Really? It actually said "61th"? How about you read your post outloud... Tell me does it sound correct or does it make you think of this...

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

We traded Heatley for a contract we ended up buying out. We’ve also bought out Adam Burish and Paul Martin in the past 5 years.

I know you're a newer fan but at the time that trade was amazing. Havlat had played most of the games for the 3 preceding years. You'd be hard pressed to find many people on this board who didn't love that trade back then. Using hind sight after Havlats fluky injury while trying to climb over the boards to try and saw otherwise is just being petulant.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Just for the record when we traded Heatley he was coming off a more productive season than Kane has ever accomplished in his career. This idea that some team is gonna trade for Kane in 2021 when he's coming off a 43 point in 72 games season or whatever and has 4 years remaining at a $7 million AAV is ridiculous.

Except it isn't. That salary will likely be equivalent or less than what Heatley was making as a percentage of the salary cap or in adjusted dollars for inflation etc...

 

[Alwalys]

We're at the point of the offseason where we're talking about Havlat now.

Lord help me.

Sometimes you have only a little to talk about and sometimes you havlat.

 

[Barrie22]

I know you're a newer fan but at the time that trade was amazing. Havlat had played most of the games for the 3 preceding years. You'd be hard pressed to find many people on this board who didn't love that trade back then. Using hind sight after Havlats fluky injury while trying to climb over the boards to try and saw otherwise is just being petulant.

I didn't like it from the start.

 

[Lebanezer]

Havlats time in SJ in a nutshell

I shouldn't have laughed, but I did.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I know you're a newer fan but at the time that trade was amazing. Havlat had played most of the games for the 3 preceding years. You'd be hard pressed to find many people on this board who didn't love that trade back then. Using hind sight after Havlats fluky injury while trying to climb over the boards to try and saw otherwise is just being petulant.

I’m not a newer fan at all. The Heatley for Havlat deal was a good move at the time and I never said it was bad.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I know you're a newer fan

Wow, way to be condescending as hell.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Wow, way to be condescending as hell.

And simply inaccurate. As you may remember, you and I were pro-Havlat in the 2013 off-season

The initial comment was something along the lines of how we should not be worried about Couture, Kane, Vlasic, Jones, and Burns’ contracts, because DW was able to trade Heatley.

This is a terrible comparison and terribly inaccurate for so many reasons.

1. The simplest reason as to why this is inaccurate is because we traded Heatley’s contract for another player that we ended up buying out. And by the time that we bought out that player, Heatley’s contract had naturally expired.

You wouldn’t say “yeah, this used car dealer can totally get rid of any junk. He traded that used BMW with a $3,500 KBB value for a used Infiniti with a $3,200 KBB value. I’m not worried about him being able to get rid of this used Honda with a $2,000 KBB value.”

2. We have also bought out Adam Burish and Paul Martin within a short period of time.

3. Dany Heatley had 3 years left at $7.5M when he was traded, while Evander Kane has 7 years left at $7M. Kane has also never scored 60 points in his career, where as Heatley scored at least 64 points in every single season of his career except for one injury ridden season where he scored 25 points in 31 games; a 66 point pace over the course of the full season. While we all knew Heatley had begun to deteriorate, he was still only 30 years old, and had just scored 26 goals and 38 assists in his most recent season of deterioration. A deteriorating Heatley had just scored 7 more points in the worst season of his career (at the time we traded him) than Kane has scored in the absolute best season of his career.

But sure, just condescend me and say I’m a “new fan”. Lmao.

 

[Maladroit]

Hilarious that Jannik Hansen ends up in the KHL before Goldobin. What a horrible trade.

 

[Hinterland]

Hilarious that Jannik Hansen ends up in the KHL before Goldobin. What a horrible trade.

Why exactly? Goldobin is trash...will never be an NHL player with actual value. With Hansen the Sharks received an excellent veteran depth forward. Granted...he struggled at first but then got perma scratched despite playing well. Huge mistake by DeBoer not to play Hansen...he even got defensive when asked the obvious question about Hansen.
Now...what's worse...giving up a 3rd for an ignorant Coach who plays favourites over the best players or trading useless assets for a vet?

Reilly Walsh is an excellent prospect I'd love to see under Sharks control (of course he can still join the Sharks when he's done in Harvard but that's obviously not likely to happen)...Tim Söderlund developed very well since his draft but isn't likely to become an NHL player anytime soon. Lack of size and high end skill usually isn't a good combination. Will be an excellent player for European leagues but probably not in the NHL. 4th rounders don't work out too often anyways.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Hilarious that Jannik Hansen ends up in the KHL before Goldobin. What a horrible trade.

Honestly, it’s hilarious that Hansen ended up in the KHL in general when inferior players like Jay Beagle and Antoine Roussel got NHL contracts with fairly big term and money.

 

[Maladroit]

Why exactly? Goldobin is trash...will never be an NHL player with actual value. With Hansen the Sharks received an excellent veteran depth forward. Granted...he struggled at first but then got perma scratched despite playing well. Huge mistake by DeBoer not to play Hansen...he even got defensive when asked the obvious question about Hansen.
Now...what's worse...giving up a 3rd for an ignorant Coach who plays favourites over the best players or trading useless assets for a vet?

Reilly Walsh is an excellent prospect I'd love to see under Sharks control (of course he can still join the Sharks when he's done in Harvard but that's obviously not likely to happen)...Tim Söderlund developed very well since his draft but isn't likely to become an NHL player anytime soon. Lack of size and high end skill usually isn't a good combination. Will be an excellent player for European leagues but probably not in the NHL. 4th rounders don't work out too often anyways.

Goldobin is a 22 year old who dominates the AHL and scored at a 17-goal pace in extremely limited NHL minutes on the worst team in the league last season. It's way too early to write him off. He was never given anything approaching a legitimate chance in San Jose and then was sold at the lowest point of his value for a career bottom six forward coming off an unsustainable career season whose value was at his highest. Just awful asset management no matter how you feel about Goldobin.

 

[Internazionale]

Goldobin is a 22 year old who dominates the AHL and scored at a 17-goal pace in extremely limited NHL minutes on the worst team in the league last season. It's way too early to write him off. He was never given anything approaching a legitimate chance in San Jose and then was sold at the lowest point of his value for a career bottom six forward coming off an unsustainable career season whose value was at his highest. Just awful asset management no matter how you feel about Goldobin.

Stop making Goldobin sound like a bonafide superstar. He can't even stick up with the big boys on a bad Canucks team. He'll probably be one of those players that moves around alot in his career. As of right now, the trade isn't as bad as you make it sound. Hansen was easily replacable, and that's exactly what we did. It didn't work out for both teams. Oh well.

 

[Hinterland]

Goldobin is a 22 year old who dominates the AHL and scored at a 17-goal pace in extremely limited NHL minutes on the worst team in the league last season. It's way too early to write him off. He was never given anything approaching a legitimate chance in San Jose and then was sold at the lowest point of his value for a career bottom six forward coming off an unsustainable career season whose value was at his highest. Just awful asset management no matter how you feel about Goldobin.

I'd take Reilly Walsh over Goldobin every day of the week.