Speculation: Summer 2018 Roster Discussion Part III
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jarr92
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- May 7, 2013
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I was going to start a new thread with a bunch of stats and images but I'll just keep it simple on here:
No team in the last 8-9 years has won the cup without a #1 Center, most of which being elite (top 8-9 ranked C). There is no more important position to lack, and a 1C is the most surefire way to build towards success.
With that being said, it's my opinion the Sharks are a top line Center away from being contenders for the next 5-6 years. For the current aging core of Thornton and Pavelski to have any shot at a cup, the Sharks need to make a move for a #1C in the next 1-2 years.
How do the Sharks acquire a top line center with the current team makeup?
After the most recent UFA happening, it seems obvious the Sharks can't rely on a big free agent signing somehow going their way. But if they did that leaves:
Tyler Seguin (Next summer)
Anyone else?
There's always the draft, but the Sharks aren't tanking which is the only way they will draft an NHL ready #1C in the next two years.
That leaves the option of trading for a #1C or a player DW thinks can turn into that #1C. After looking at all the NHL, AHL, and prospect Center stats the only clear options to me would be somehow trading for Seguin (unlikely, would also hinder current roster), signing him as a UFA next summer (even more unlikely), or what I think is the most reasonable way to acquiring a possible top line center - make another trade with the Florida Panthers.
They have 3 centers who all have high point totals, good to decent possession stats, and good faceoff numbers.
Alex Barkov
Vincent Trocheck
Nick Bjugstad
Barkov looks to be the true #1C, but the other two are also interesting. Looking at the advanced stats, it seems Trocheck was deployed in a somewhat high percentage of defensive zone starts while still compiling 75 points and having a good faceoff rate. Nick Bjugstad is 6'6'', had good possession stats, and put up 49 points while playing 15 minutes a game.
I'm interested to hear what it would cost to acquire either of those 3 players, as to me they seem like the best shot the Sharks currently have to potentially get that elusive #1C. DW has done it before, let's hope he can do it again.
No team in the last 8-9 years has won the cup without a #1 Center, most of which being elite (top 8-9 ranked C). There is no more important position to lack, and a 1C is the most surefire way to build towards success.
With that being said, it's my opinion the Sharks are a top line Center away from being contenders for the next 5-6 years. For the current aging core of Thornton and Pavelski to have any shot at a cup, the Sharks need to make a move for a #1C in the next 1-2 years.
How do the Sharks acquire a top line center with the current team makeup?
After the most recent UFA happening, it seems obvious the Sharks can't rely on a big free agent signing somehow going their way. But if they did that leaves:
Tyler Seguin (Next summer)
Anyone else?
There's always the draft, but the Sharks aren't tanking which is the only way they will draft an NHL ready #1C in the next two years.
That leaves the option of trading for a #1C or a player DW thinks can turn into that #1C. After looking at all the NHL, AHL, and prospect Center stats the only clear options to me would be somehow trading for Seguin (unlikely, would also hinder current roster), signing him as a UFA next summer (even more unlikely), or what I think is the most reasonable way to acquiring a possible top line center - make another trade with the Florida Panthers.
They have 3 centers who all have high point totals, good to decent possession stats, and good faceoff numbers.
Alex Barkov
Vincent Trocheck
Nick Bjugstad
Barkov looks to be the true #1C, but the other two are also interesting. Looking at the advanced stats, it seems Trocheck was deployed in a somewhat high percentage of defensive zone starts while still compiling 75 points and having a good faceoff rate. Nick Bjugstad is 6'6'', had good possession stats, and put up 49 points while playing 15 minutes a game.
I'm interested to hear what it would cost to acquire either of those 3 players, as to me they seem like the best shot the Sharks currently have to potentially get that elusive #1C. DW has done it before, let's hope he can do it again.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
LaBanc+Braun+Tierney+Joshua Norris+2020 1st for Erik Karlsson+Bobby Ryan
Melker Karlsson+3rd for future considerations
Hertl-Couture-Donskoi
Kane-Thornton-Pavelski
Balcers-Suomela-Meier
Sorensen-Goodrow-Gambrell
Vlasic-Karlsson
Ryan-Burns
Dillon-Heed
Jones
Dell
With this lineup, we have ~$1M in cap space for a 21st roster player. Then, next year, if Tyler Seguin hits UFA, we have a chance at signing him.
Melker Karlsson+3rd for future considerations
Hertl-Couture-Donskoi
Kane-Thornton-Pavelski
Balcers-Suomela-Meier
Sorensen-Goodrow-Gambrell
Vlasic-Karlsson
Ryan-Burns
Dillon-Heed
Jones
Dell
With this lineup, we have ~$1M in cap space for a 21st roster player. Then, next year, if Tyler Seguin hits UFA, we have a chance at signing him.
Trade for erik. keep melker and rush linus. Trade for william.
Have a team of karlssons.
Have a team of karlssons.
KirbyDots
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- May 10, 2011
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After the offer: Erik Karlsson trade talk continues to heat up
Garrioch says we're expected to be in on Karlsson.
Garrioch says we're expected to be in on Karlsson.
- Sep 29, 2016
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I say go all in and get Panarin. Not sure what that's gonna cost but Columbus needs NHL ready/close LD's and Centers so they could be interested in Ryan and Tierney. Tierney, Ryan, Gambrell and a 1st for Panarin would sound fair to me even though Columbus would probably prefer to get more high end talent back.
I'd hate to trade Ryan but if Wilson can get DeHaan (preferred option) or Sbisa then I'd be okay with it.
Meier, Hertl, Donskoi
Kane, Couture, Panarin
Goodrow, Thornton, Pavelski
Balcers, Suomela, Labanc
Sorensen
Vlasic, Braun
DeHaan, Burns
Dillon, Heed
Simek, DeMelo
PP1: Couture, Burns, Pavelski, Thornton, Panarin
PP2: Balcers, Heed, Meier, Hertl, Labanc
Would sound good enough to me. Hertl line is the three headed possession monster logging big minutes and taking the toughest matchups whenever possible. A separation of Hertl and Couture would allow the Sharks to play Couture in a more offensive role. He'd also have enough talent on his line with Kane and Panarin. The Joe's would get some excellent matchups if used in a 3rd line role and Goodrow seems like a good fit for them. 4th line would finally contain more talent and be more mobile.
I'd hate to trade Ryan but if Wilson can get DeHaan (preferred option) or Sbisa then I'd be okay with it.
Meier, Hertl, Donskoi
Kane, Couture, Panarin
Goodrow, Thornton, Pavelski
Balcers, Suomela, Labanc
Sorensen
Vlasic, Braun
DeHaan, Burns
Dillon, Heed
Simek, DeMelo
PP1: Couture, Burns, Pavelski, Thornton, Panarin
PP2: Balcers, Heed, Meier, Hertl, Labanc
Would sound good enough to me. Hertl line is the three headed possession monster logging big minutes and taking the toughest matchups whenever possible. A separation of Hertl and Couture would allow the Sharks to play Couture in a more offensive role. He'd also have enough talent on his line with Kane and Panarin. The Joe's would get some excellent matchups if used in a 3rd line role and Goodrow seems like a good fit for them. 4th line would finally contain more talent and be more mobile.
STL Shark
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- Mar 6, 2013
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Duchene is more of a now option while you still have Thornton and Pavs. He’s not really an elite #1. Id put him on par with or slightly above Couture but consider him a below average #1/elite #2.
- Sep 29, 2016
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Karlsson (luckily) isn't happening and the same goes for Duchene unless he actually hits Free Agency. Wilson and Tallon trolled Dorion badly...I don't think he's keen on dealing with Wilson again anytime soon. I wouldn't if I were him.
T0uGh C0oki3
Goodbye Jumbo Joe
- Dec 19, 2014
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Right now we need our prospects to reach their potentials miraculously.
So we can use them as trade chips
So we can use them as trade chips
The rumor pundits don’t even have us in the conversation for Karlsson. Not surprising considering how we burned Dorion earlier in the season. And with an 11mil AAV ask, I doubt we are really interested.
Do we need a 1c though? I think that depends on Doug’s true intentions. If our goal is to just stay relevant, year after year, I think the Predator model works just fine. They don’t have a true 1c and yet remain in the conversation year after year. And say what you will, but I don’t think Backstrom is a true 1c, and especially not top-10 at that. So I think this year with the Caps, the Knights, the Predators and the Jets making it as far as they did, disputes the notion of a 1c being an absolute necessity.
DeBoer loves to talk about “attacking in waves” and I think that has become a valid strategy. With the 13 million we were rumored to be offering Tavares, we can add 2 more top-6 wingers and create serious mismatches for the oppositions bottom-6. More and more, teams have the ability to lock down top players. If you look at our 2016 run to the finals, a large part of that was Vlasic and Braun being able to keep “1c”’s off the score sheet.
Long story short, I think Tavares was our one shot for a 1c. Timo doesn’t buy you one and neither dose a list of parts. Barring another lost season now that everyone is stuck here, I just don't see it happening. I think we fill out our wings with quality players and run Pavelski, Couture, Hertl down the middle. That should be enough to allow us to build 3 solid lines each capable of locking down top opponents or scoring on bottom-6 scrubs.
Ohh and let’s replace Braun.
Do we need a 1c though? I think that depends on Doug’s true intentions. If our goal is to just stay relevant, year after year, I think the Predator model works just fine. They don’t have a true 1c and yet remain in the conversation year after year. And say what you will, but I don’t think Backstrom is a true 1c, and especially not top-10 at that. So I think this year with the Caps, the Knights, the Predators and the Jets making it as far as they did, disputes the notion of a 1c being an absolute necessity.
DeBoer loves to talk about “attacking in waves” and I think that has become a valid strategy. With the 13 million we were rumored to be offering Tavares, we can add 2 more top-6 wingers and create serious mismatches for the oppositions bottom-6. More and more, teams have the ability to lock down top players. If you look at our 2016 run to the finals, a large part of that was Vlasic and Braun being able to keep “1c”’s off the score sheet.
Long story short, I think Tavares was our one shot for a 1c. Timo doesn’t buy you one and neither dose a list of parts. Barring another lost season now that everyone is stuck here, I just don't see it happening. I think we fill out our wings with quality players and run Pavelski, Couture, Hertl down the middle. That should be enough to allow us to build 3 solid lines each capable of locking down top opponents or scoring on bottom-6 scrubs.
Ohh and let’s replace Braun.
jarr92
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- May 7, 2013
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Who are those top 6 players the Sharks are supposed to sign?
And Washington has 2 “#1C” players in Backstrom and Kuznetsov
I agree the Sharks can keep making the playoffs without a 1C, but playoffs aren’t supposed to be the goal..
STL Shark
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- Mar 6, 2013
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Kuznetsov is definitely a top end #1C. The Caps had two centers better than any center on our roster. Can’t consider that a legit comparison. I’m just struggling to find this team’s identity. Not overly fast but not overly big. Not elite on at scoring and not elite at goal suppression. It’s just a very boring roster that may be deep enough to win in the regular season, but will get overmatched against good teams consistently that have more top end skill. Luckily the Pacific is a train wreck so they’ll compete for a playoff spot but that’s about it unless they find a true #1.
Backstrom is no more a 1c than Pavelski. Which is no say, not at all. Kuznetsov is probably a stronger argument, but I don’t put him in the same company as McDavid, Crosby, Stamkos, Tavares, etc. I am not saying that you have to go 1OA to be a true 1c - but Kuznetsov went 26th for a reason. He had a good year. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
Pistol Pete
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- Dec 17, 2007
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If EK65 will take $11mil per season, that’s perfect because both Joes come off the books for exactly $11mil next year...
I’m very happy to have Thornton and Hertl but wish their cap hits were closer to what a lot of of us were predicting to have the additional ~$1.5mil in padding.
I just built out a roster for next season with a trade for EK65 and Ryan. I have no concerns about the speculation of Dorian not wanting to trade with DW. If the Sharks are willing to take Ryan back, and give some young potential and high picks, he’ll listen. Money is the number one priority in Ottawa.
Obviously there’s no money for a 13th forward and the depth is a little questionable. I don’t see a way for DW to get EK65 without giving up Hertl unless he takes Ryan back. There’s the option to buyout Ryan and have roughly $4mil in capspace for another top 9 forward, 13th forward, and potential 6th dman upgrade. I know Pavs playing center isn’t ideal but I like what that line did last year, not to mention it keeps the Joes apart and Hertl & Couture together.
Regarding the trade itself, Gambrell can be swapped out for Norris (that would be my preference). Please tell me how and why I am wrong. Thanks!
I’m very happy to have Thornton and Hertl but wish their cap hits were closer to what a lot of of us were predicting to have the additional ~$1.5mil in padding.
I just built out a roster for next season with a trade for EK65 and Ryan. I have no concerns about the speculation of Dorian not wanting to trade with DW. If the Sharks are willing to take Ryan back, and give some young potential and high picks, he’ll listen. Money is the number one priority in Ottawa.
Obviously there’s no money for a 13th forward and the depth is a little questionable. I don’t see a way for DW to get EK65 without giving up Hertl unless he takes Ryan back. There’s the option to buyout Ryan and have roughly $4mil in capspace for another top 9 forward, 13th forward, and potential 6th dman upgrade. I know Pavs playing center isn’t ideal but I like what that line did last year, not to mention it keeps the Joes apart and Hertl & Couture together.
Regarding the trade itself, Gambrell can be swapped out for Norris (that would be my preference). Please tell me how and why I am wrong. Thanks!
Maladroit
Registered User
That trade and roster looks great, my concern would be what the forward corps looks like when Karlsson's making $11mil/yr starting in 2019-20 and we still have Bobby Ryan on the books. I'm hoping we can stash him on LTIR.
Pistol Pete
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- Dec 17, 2007
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Thanks, I appreciate it! If that roster came to fruition, I would want to first see how Ryan holds up over the course of the year and what his production is. If he’s still made of glass while putting up less than 40-50 points, there’s a few ideas:
- Buyout.
- Trade to a team that needs to reach the cap floor.
- LTIR.
Obviously it’s not ideal, we could only hope for the best...
spintheblackcircle
incoming!!!
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T0uGh C0oki3
Goodbye Jumbo Joe
- Dec 19, 2014
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According to Sens fans, Bobby Ryan has a NMC.
So goodbye to all those buyouts or trades to floor teams.
So goodbye to all those buyouts or trades to floor teams.
I believe if he accepts a trade to a team they don't have to carry over his NMC after the trade. I may be wrong.
NMC’s follow the player unless a clause is not yet active. But an NMC doesn’t prevent a buyout.
Also, people need to stop being so petty about this Marleau thing.
StanleyCup2035
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