Summer 2017 individual prospect rankings + Questionnaire

[Jray42]

1. Patrick
2. Sanheim
3. Myers
4. Lindblom
5. Rubtsov
6. Morin
7. Frost
8. Allison
9. Hagg
10. Ratcliffe
11. Friedman
12. Laberge
13. Vorobyov
14. Laczynski
15. Aube-Kubel
16. Hogberg
17. Kase
18. Bunnaman
19. Strome
20. Cates

1. Sandstrom
2. Hart
3. Stolarz
4. Ustimenko
5. Lyon

I changed things up a few times in making this, and I'm still not positive if this is my definitive list but oh well.

1- The player in your top 10 you're afraid you may have overrated?
Tie between Allison and Hagg.

2- The player outside of your top 10 you're afraid you may have underrated?
Laberge and Hogberg

3- The player you think is most likely to rise from outside your top 15 into a top 10 spot next year?
Hogberg

4- The player outside your top 20 who you think has the best chance to become a regular on the Flyers roster someday?
Vecchione

 

[Kermit the Prog]

Kenny Linseman will forever own that nickname. Sorry

He was the center on the best-named line in Flyers history, in my opinion: Rat Patrol (with Brian Propp at LW and Paul Holmgren at RW)

Rat Patrol was a 1960s TV show about a unit in the North African theater during WWII and was a frequent re-run on local UHF stations in Philadelphia in the early 1980s, so the sobriquet felt quasi-topical.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Is Ratcliffe's nickname the Rat? It should be if it isn't. Can the Official Nickname Committee weigh in on this?

Might as well continue our Dick Tracy trend.

 

[Philly Fanatik]

1.Patrick
2.Lindblom
3.Sanheim
4.Morin
5.Rubtsov
6.Vorobyov


7.Hagg
8.Myers
9.Allison
10.Aube-Kubel
11.Friedman
12.Laczynski
13.Kase
14.Frost
15.Laberge
16.Ratcliffe
17.Bunnaman
18.Hogberg
19.Cates
20.Strome

Goalies
1.Stolarz
2.Lyon
3.Sandstrom
4.Hart
5.Ustimenko


Overrated:Vorobyov
Underrated: Laberge
Jump into top 10:Frost
Outside top 20:Vecchione

 

[Magua]

Late.

Skaters:

1. Patrick
2. Sanheim
3. Myers
4. Lindblom
5. Rubtsov
6. Frost
7. Vorobyev
8. Morin
9. Laczynski
10. Friedman
11. Allison
12. Hogberg
13. Hagg
14. Laberge
15. NAK
16. Bunnaman
17. Strome
18. Ratcliffe
19. Cates
20. Kase
21. Lycksell
22. Bernhardt
23. Martel
24. Marody
25. Vecchione
26. Leier
27. Fazleev
28. Salinitri
29. Sushko
30. Bardreau

Goalies:

1. Hart
2. Sandstrom
3. Stolarz
4. Ustimenko
5. Lyon


1- The player in your top 10 you're afraid you may have overrated?

Morin. I go back and forth on if he should be separated from the Friedman/Hagg/Hogberg group and how much his unique tools+draft status+wishful thinking is weighing on my ranking. Tell me they end up as good or better than him in actual on-ice value, and I won't be surprised.

2- The player outside of your top 10 you're afraid you may have underrated?

Hagg, if he shows he is more what that miniscule game 82 NHL sample showed as opposed to his AHL time, which usually left me lukewarm. Weird things can happen with level jumps, but I tried to not let that 1 game sample affect my ranking. But maybe he's been hiding things.

You have guys like Cates who are mystery boxes, but I don't think having him slotted there presently is being "underrated." He has to prove it, and I'm already giving him the benefit of the doubt with that rank. And guys like Laberge and Kase I don't underrate in terms of ability. I just need to see more of it after weird post-draft years -- gave them the benefit of the doubt too -- and they could make sizable jumps. Whereas, I legitimately question if I value Hagg enough as a player, not his season.

3- The player you think is most likely to rise from outside your top 15 into a top 10 spot next year?

Probably no one next year, since I have the major candidates already inside my top 15. I guess one of Bunnaman, Cates, or Kase if I must choose.

4- The player outside your top 20 who you think has the best chance to become a regular on the Flyers roster someday?

Does "regular" mean just for a couple years (was VDV a "regular"?) or more long-term? If the former qualifies, Vecchione/Leier, if only for how close/ready they are -- but they seem a bit obvious.

Besides them, Lycksell is too unknown for me to project with any certainty. Martel+Bernhardt.....I am a bit skeptical either has a path here. Do they sign Marody? Fazleev seems like a decent choice, provided they don't box him out or sour the relationship.

 

[Rebels57]

Strome over Ratcliffe surprises me on your list Magua

 

[Flyerfan13]

I have this gut feeling strome is going to surprise us and fix his skating just as lindblom did.

 

[Magua]

Strome over Ratcliffe surprises me on your list Magua

Watching him since the draft, I've become more of a believer in Strome. The more I watch him, the more I like him. His skating issues are obvious -- and no, I don't project him ever skating as well as Lindblom -- but I've gotten past that to look at his many strengths. His lack of conditioning is a silver lining, and I just don't think I can recall a forward with size, smarts, and skill whose skating was so putrid it couldn't be improved enough to the point it's mitigated by the rest. Maybe he'll be a first!

But the more I watch Ratcliffe, and many of these thoughts go back pre-draft, the less I'm sure of him. Keep watching.....and watching.....and watching old games from all over the season trying to convince myself otherwise, but it's always the same. It shouldn't be too surprising -- if you saw/remembered -- because I've said this stuff in passing elsewhere. I know I'm out on a limb with him, though I'll be happy to change my opinion if he shows me what I'm missing.

The one thing Ratcliffe has on Strome is being a good skater, though a lot of it can feel like empty miles to me. He's rarely skating with the puck, and I get some vibes he may be a bit of a play chaser. But I'm sold on Strome's high end hockey sense. The game slows down for Strome, in a good way; for Ratcliffe, I worry it can tilt towards frenetic. He always keeps up with the play, despite his skating, because he's mentally ahead of it and has a plan. He's an underrated passer with great feel for using his teammates and cycling and, in general, minimizing his weaknesses. Ratcliffe's calling cards are his size + net front ability + shot. But Strome is almost 6'4 himself and provides much of the same. His shot is better as well with a quicker release. Ratcliffe's is heavy, but it's a bit long. Strome has really soft hands too, whereas Ratcliffe can have serious issues with his puck handling, especially if he's moving with it. I think his passing is below average too, with too many turnovers. I didn't factor this in because it could go away with time, but he really has to improve his strength on the puck and using his body to shield it. He loses far too many battles down low at his size. Strome is also more effective here. If Strome doesn't improve his skating/conditioning it will mean jack ****, but I do think he's a better hockey player.

 

[Rebels57]

Watching him since the draft, I've become more of a believer in Strome. The more I watch him, the more I like him. His skating issues are obvious -- and no, I don't project him ever skating as well as Lindblom -- but I've gotten past that to look at his many strengths. His lack of conditioning is a silver lining, and I just don't think I can recall a forward with size, smarts, and skill whose skating was so putrid it couldn't be improved enough to the point it's mitigated by the rest. Maybe he'll be a first!

But the more I watch Ratcliffe, and many of these thoughts go back pre-draft, the less I'm sure of him. Keep watching.....and watching.....and watching old games from all over the season trying to convince myself otherwise, but it's always the same. It shouldn't be too surprising -- if you saw/remembered -- because I've said this stuff in passing elsewhere. I know I'm out on a limb with him, though I'll be happy to change my opinion if he shows me what I'm missing.

The one thing Ratcliffe has on Strome is being a good skater, though a lot of it can feel like empty miles to me. He's rarely skating with the puck, and I get some vibes he may be a bit of a play chaser. But I'm sold on Strome's high end hockey sense. The game slows down for Strome, in a good way; for Ratcliffe, I worry it can tilt towards frenetic. He always keeps up with the play, despite his skating, because he's mentally ahead of it and has a plan. He's an underrated passer with great feel for using his teammates and cycling and, in general, minimizing his weaknesses. Ratcliffe's calling cards are his size + net front ability + shot. But Strome is almost 6'4 himself and provides much of the same. His shot is better as well with a quicker release. Ratcliffe's is heavy, but it's a bit long. Strome has really soft hands too, whereas Ratcliffe can have serious issues with his puck handling, especially if he's moving with it. I think his passing is below average too, with too many turnovers. I didn't factor this in because it could go away with time, but he really has to improve his strength on the puck and using his body to shield it. He loses far too many battles down low at his size. Strome is also more effective here. If Strome doesn't improve his skating/conditioning it will mean jack ****, but I do think he's a better hockey player.

The way you describe Ratcliffe makes me see him as potentially a future Simmonds if all goes well. With Wayne, the sum is greater than it's parts. He uses his size and sheer will to be an effective goal scorer. He doesn't have great hockey sense, passing, stick-handling, etc. He's a good skater that goes to the net and gets it done.

 

[BernieParent]

TBRD will henceforth be how I refer to him.

I can get on board (so to speak) with that.

 

[Stizzle]

Goalies:

1. Hart
2. Sandstrom
3. Stolarz
4. Ustimenko
5. Lyon

Is there any particular reason for Hart over Sandstrom?

Do you have any initial impression on Ustimenko? I realize you, like myself, have only seen him once, so it's tough to gauge anything.

1- The player in your top 10 you're afraid you may have overrated?

Morin. I go back and forth on if he should be separated from the Friedman/Hagg/Hogberg group and how much his unique tools+draft status+wishful thinking is weighing on my ranking. Tell me they end up as good or better than him in actual on-ice value, and I won't be surprised.

I've seen Morin play a million times and I still don't have a concrete opinion on him. He's obviously a unique specimen. Which makes him a tougher read. I'm confident enough in him that he deserves his shot on the roster right now (as do Hagg & Sanheim, AMac go away). Past that, I'm not sure what to expect. For me though, he doesn't belong ranked anywhere near our upper echelon young defensemen.

4- The player outside your top 20 who you think has the best chance to become a regular on the Flyers roster someday?

Does "regular" mean just for a couple years (was VDV a "regular"?) or more long-term? If the former qualifies, Vecchione/Leier, if only for how close/ready they are -- but they seem a bit obvious.

Besides them, Lycksell is too unknown for me to project with any certainty. Martel+Bernhardt.....I am a bit skeptical either has a path here. Do they sign Marody? Fazleev seems like a decent choice, provided they don't box him out or sour the relationship.

Yes, I would definitely consider Vandevelde a regular for the purposes of this exercise.

 

[Magua]

The way you describe Ratcliffe makes me see him as potentially a future Simmonds if all goes well. With Wayne, the sum is greater than it's parts. He uses his size and sheer will to be an effective goal scorer. He doesn't have great hockey sense, passing, stick-handling, etc. He's a good skater that goes to the net and gets it done.

I don't think Simmonds is the smartest player and he isn't a playmaker -- which manifests in his ES weaknesses -- but his ability along the boards and in front to win battles is among league best. It's not like Simmonds can't pass either in terms of puck skills (he's not some stone hands crease crasher), he's just not a player with good awareness. I worry Ratcliffe is both. I know Ratcliffe is somewhat of a project, but he loses so many puck battles and gets stripped far too easily. If people think he's presently a monster who overpowers people down low and is impossible to strip......he's not. That would have to be projection, which is fine. Lot of reaching with his stick instead of using his body, balance issues, and iffy puck skills give him trouble. It's where being bigger isn't automatically better. Simmonds is very good at stick-handling in tight. You will not see him deke players, true, but watch his puck (and body) control with players on him or along the boards to maintain possession, and it's phenomenal.

I think the player I described Simmonds as is more Wade Allison, if it's anyone, not that I'd go out of my way to style compare him to Simmonds.

Is there any particular reason for Hart over Sandstrom?

Not really. Gotta have one first, right? They might as well be tied.

Do you have any initial impression on Ustimenko? I realize you, like myself, have only seen him once, so it's tough to gauge anything.

I'm trusting how high the Flyers were on him. Hoodikoff is a good scout, and the Flyers have been strong in goalie scouting this regime. The one game I saw, I wasn't paying attention to him anyway, not that I'm any good at evaluating goalie prospects.

I've seen Morin play a million times and I still don't have a concrete opinion on him. He's obviously a unique specimen. Which makes him a tougher read. I'm confident enough in him that he deserves his shot on the roster right now (as do Hagg & Sanheim, AMac go away). Past that, I'm not sure what to expect. For me though, he doesn't belong ranked anywhere near our upper echelon young defensemen

It's a common theme with the Phantoms. Almost everyone down there I find hard to evaluate, for reasons discussed plenty. Which is really nice in determining what you have.

It's why I tried to put him only slightly ahead of Friedman/Hogberg/Hagg, and I'm not even sure about that. He definitely is a mile behind Sanheim/Myers. I do think he still has the most league value out of that last group though, so maybe that's a half decent reason to separate him a little. And realistically one of Hagg/Morin may have to get traded after their rookie season. If Hagg/Morin don't show a distinction, the most valuable one is the most tradable.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Ratcliffe kind of reminds me of a forward version of Morin.

 

[BritainStix]

^ I would agree with that. He's very raw, but he's a huge specimen of a human being. If he develops in the same way that Morin has been, we are onto a winner.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Is Ratcliffe's nickname the Rat? It should be if it isn't. Can the Official Nickname Committee weigh in on this?

His nickname in Guelph is Ratty.

 

[tymed]

1. Patrick
2. Sanheim
3. Myers
4. Rubtsov
5. Frost
6. Lindblom
7. Morin
8. Allison
9. Strome
10. Ratcliffe
11. Hagg
12. Laczynski
13. Vorobyev
14. Friedman
15. Hogberg
16. Laberge
17. Aube-Kubel
18. Bunnaman
19. Cates
20. Kase
21. Bernhardt
22. Lycksell
23. Marody
24. Martel
25. Leier
26. Vecchione
27. Salinitri
28. Fazleev
29. Sushko
30. Amarosa


Overrated in top 10?
-Morin. Still has high upside but I was hoping to see better hands by now and he still seems like he could be easily turned inside out by quick NHL forwards.

-Strome. Huge on his talent but betting on big skating improvements.

Underrated outside top 10?
-Laczysnki. Like what I hear about him and what I've seen of him.

-Hagg. I agree with the idea that he's liekly to excel with more team structure and more talented teammates. If he keeps things simple, he should be an NHLer. Reminds me of the type of player we could've had in Bourdon.

-Vorobyev. I like the player but not sure how he can amount to more than a 3C here.

Most likely to rise from outside your top 15 into a top 10 spot next year?
-Laberge

Player outside your top 20 with best chance to become a regular on the Flyers roster someday?
-Leier