OT: Strange Ray Bourque stat

[4ORRBRUIN]

Ray skates circles around Chara. Also, he wasn't "injured" or "tired" in the playoffs like Chara is every single year.

Your correct , he was home after the first round most of the time. Can't get "injured" or "tired" on the golf course.

 

[callacave]

Get real, Chara will go down as one of If not the Best " defenseman " to ever wear a B's uniform.

And is great captain/leader that help the Bruins get back to relevancy. Ray had many chances to win a cup with some great teams yet could not get it done.

He should have been traded long before he was.

Lol....I love Chara, and he will go down as one of the greats, and we wouldn't have won a cup without him, but Bourque was a machine. His defensive play was stellar. His offensive ability uncanny. He was a complete defenseman.

Maybe he didn't have the 100+ mph slap shot of Chara, but he actually knew how to get the shot off, and with precision.

He was incredibly intelligent on the ice, and had great vision.

I haven't seen a defensman on the B's since him that was able to keep the puck in the zone like Ray. It's like he had a magnet on his blade that wouldn't let the puck pass the blue line.

 

[smithformeragent]

A thread about Bourque and somehow it gets into Chara bashing.

Boy, we're in midseason form in these parts!
I wish I were old enough to remember more of Bourque before the end of his road.
I feel like I'm too young to appreciate his game.

FWIW Chris Kelly is a +2 career in the playoffs

 

[Scotto74]

A thread about Bourque and somehow it gets into Chara bashing.

Boy, we're in midseason form in these parts!
I wish I were old enough to remember more of Bourque before the end of his road.
I feel like I'm too young to appreciate his game.

FWIW Chris Kelly is a +2 career in the playoffs

Bourque was one of the greatest players I ever got to watch play. Guy was just always in the right place at the right time. mastered the half slap/snap shot from the point. NEVER seemed to get tired and was just very good at everything he ever did. His shot accuracy was unreal.

Chara is great and another player I will remember watching for years to come.

However they are so different I don't see how you can compare the two at all other than they were both B's captains (and damn good ones) and both played D.

 

[LouJersey]

Bourque's bruins lost 10 series as the favorite and 9 series as the underdog.

There were some monumental choke jobs by those Bruins teams,... Remember some of those first round ousters? Man, I remember being so pissed.

 

[smithformeragent]

I'd say when I started watching the Bruins, Bourque was just Bourque and Neely was always hurt. I didn't really understand Bourque other than the fact that everyone told me how great he was (but not as great as Orr). I remember him breaking some type of record on the road against Tampa Bay the last year that Fred and Derek called the games. I also know that he and Neely looked out of place with those Gold Pooh uniforms. I remember the first time they wore them on the Fox Saturday game they wore white helmets. I also remember Neely and Stevens being benched, but I couldn't comprehend what that meant. I remember Bourque scooping up the puck after as the horn sounded.

Then I remember the void that was the Bruins defense as I truly started understanding the game in the pre-lockout seasons. Lean times for sure.

For all of Chara's weaknesses, he's been worth the money.

 

[smithformeragent]

Bourque's bruins lost 10 series as the favorite and 9 series as the underdog.

There were some monumental choke jobs by those Bruins teams,... Remember some of those first round ousters? Man, I remember being so pissed.

That's hockey though, right?

You battle for 82 games and don't end up with much of an advantage for it. Not like the NBA anyway. The upsets are what make the sport great, but are also extremely frustrating when you're the top seed going down in round 1.

 

[LouJersey]

That's hockey though, right?

You battle for 82 games and don't end up with much of an advantage for it. Not like the NBA anyway. The upsets are what make the sport great, but are also extremely frustrating when you're the top seed going down in round 1.

Right I agree..but people make it seem like Bourque was continually on a team of rag a muffins...

 

[smithformeragent]

Right I agree..but people make it seem like Bourque was continually on a team of rag a muffins...

Makes you think about what Brady's legacy will be if he never wins another SB.

How much blame will go on his shoulders versus BB & the Krafts for not giving him weapons/defense.

If Hamilton is the heir to Chara's throne, it also makes me wonder about what those expectations will be like.

 

[rcduthie77]

Right I agree..but people make it seem like Bourque was continually on a team of rag a muffins...

Not rag a muffins but there was never team around him to win a Stanley Cup. They were always one player or one line short when they'd run into one of those dynasty teams.

I also remember some upsets against us where we got some of the worst playoff goaltending I can ever remember

edit: Perfect example, when we made the Craig Janney for Adam Oates trade swapping first line centers. Did it work? Yes. But look at that deal a little closer, Neely's pivot was improved but it still left the same problem, who was playing behind Neely & Oates. If that trade had been made a half dozen years later it would have been a package of picks and prospects and maybe a lesser roster player for Oates.

Oates, Neely, Janney, Carpenter, Ruzicka, Leach, Poulin, Reed, Murray, Hughes, Donato, Heinze, Douris, B. Sweeney
Bourque, Wesley, D. Sweeney, Galley, Weimer, Hynes, Murphy

Just that one move alone makes that era's team way deeper

 

[mikelvl]

He played yeoman minutes and was on the ice for many goals for and against because of it. One man can only do so much.

 

[LouisSleigher]

Right I agree..but people make it seem like Bourque was continually on a team of rag a muffins...

They usually did not have enough depth to make a long playoff run. Relied too much on just a few stars like Middleton/Pederson and later Neely/Oates.

Lower pairing D-men were appallingly weak--Randy Hillier, Brian Curran, Paul Boutilier, etc.

 

[rcduthie77]

They usually did not have enough depth to make a long playoff run. Relied too much on just a few stars like Middleton/Pederson and later Neely/Oates.

Lower pairing D-men were appallingly weak--Randy Hillier, Brian Curran, Paul Boutilier, etc.

Oh Stop, STOP!

I can't take it!!!

I'm going to have to go look at our 8 potential d-men for this season and get back to building my monument to Peter Chiarelli.

 

[Bruwinz37]

Ray skates circles around Chara. Also, he wasn't "injured" or "tired" in the playoffs like Chara is every single year.

This should neither be a Chara or Bourque bashing thread but to say Bourque was never tired/worn down/dealing with injuries in the playoffs and had his play effected by it is flat out wrong. May Day...Mat Day for instance.

IMO the two are very close. Bourque was great Chara is great. Different type players but both excellent at what they do/did.

 

[LouisSleigher]

Bourque gave 100% all 1400+ games he played.

Hard to think of a player more beyond reproach.

 

[Number8]

1424 regular season games for the Bruins, was a +460

181 play-off games for the Bruins, was a -8 ... including a minus 7 years in a row.

Like what do you make of that? Anomaly?

I think towards the end of his career (at least in Boston) the playoff book was to dump the puck into the corner and pound Ray. He took a beating in playoff games towards the end of his time here.

Not sure if that was a direct impact on his +/- but it couldn't have helped.

 

[Number8]

I'd say when I started watching the Bruins, Bourque was just Bourque and Neely was always hurt. I didn't really understand Bourque other than the fact that everyone told me how great he was (but not as great as Orr). I remember him breaking some type of record on the road against Tampa Bay the last year that Fred and Derek called the games. I also know that he and Neely looked out of place with those Gold Pooh uniforms. I remember the first time they wore them on the Fox Saturday game they wore white helmets. I also remember Neely and Stevens being benched, but I couldn't comprehend what that meant. I remember Bourque scooping up the puck after as the horn sounded.

Then I remember the void that was the Bruins defense as I truly started understanding the game in the pre-lockout seasons. Lean times for sure.

For all of Chara's weaknesses, he's been worth the money.

You hit the nail on the head. The day Ray Bourque left Boston it became immediately clear how truly lucky we were to have him here -- more than we already instinctively knew. The void was immediate and obvious.

I've said it before, but I fear we'll have the same appreciation once Big Z leaves/retires.

 

[smithformeragent]

You hit the nail on the head. The day Ray Bourque left Boston it became immediately clear how truly lucky we were to have him here -- more than we already instinctively knew. The void was immediate and obvious.

I've said it before, but I fear we'll have the same appreciation once Big Z leaves/retires.

It's amazing how much better the machine works when everyone is slotted in their correct spot.

We got a small taste of this when Seids went down.

All of a sudden, everyone else besides Chara moves up a slot. Sure, Boychuk played well in the #2 role, but it puts added pressure on each guy below you.

 

[MtlBoxFan]

Why don't we just argue over who would win between superman and godzilla?
They were both great players.
Bourque was the best defenseman of the 80s, Chara was the greatest physical presence on the ice in his prime.

Oh what the heck...if you had Bourque on this Chiarelli team, you wouldn't have had your cup win...you would have had a dynasty.

 

[unifiedtheory]

chara managed to do what ray couldn't though, lead his team to the finals and win.

bourque joined an all-star team at the right time.

You realize he was that "All Star teams" best defenseman? He was a first team all star in his final season.

Pisses me off when people talk about Bourque like he was a passenger on that Avs Cup run. Dude was a ****ing horse. They don't win that Cup without him.

 

[Lobster57]

You realize he was that "All Star teams" best defenseman? He was a first team all star in his final season.

Pisses me off when people talk about Bourque like he was a passenger on that Avs Cup run. Dude was a ****ing horse. They don't win that Cup without him.

And it wasn't a "lifetime achievement award" like Lidstrom's last Norris

 

[finchster]

Bourque's bruins lost 10 series as the favorite and 9 series as the underdog.

There were some monumental choke jobs by those Bruins teams,... Remember some of those first round ousters? Man, I remember being so pissed.

Disagree, Bruins may have had more points, but that was on the strength of Ray Bourque. Those 90's teams with Ray in my opinion were TERRIBLE and carried by him and Cam.

Right I agree..but people make it seem like Bourque was continually on a team of rag a muffins...

He was how many flash in a pan top six did the Bruins have in that era?

Hodge Jr and Ruzicka come to mind right away

You realize he was that "All Star teams" best defenseman? He was a first team all star in his final season.

Pisses me off when people talk about Bourque like he was a passenger on that Avs Cup run. Dude was a ****ing horse. They don't win that Cup without him.

Played 28:30 minutes a night in the playoffs also more SHTOI than Blake or Foote that final year. Guy was the definition of passenger

 

[BigGoalBrad]

You realize he was that "All Star teams" best defenseman? He was a first team all star in his final season.

Pisses me off when people talk about Bourque like he was a passenger on that Avs Cup run. Dude was a ****ing horse. They don't win that Cup without him.

Absolutely.

Chara's shortcoming is that he isn't as slick as Bourque. Bourque's shortcoming is that he isn't 6-8 and wasn't as high end a shut down guy.

Both players were the best at what they did in the NHL for almost the entirety of their careers. Neither should be criticized for not doing what the other did. You compare both to their contemporaries and they will prevail Bourque was a much better player than tools who stole Norris's from him like Leetch and Chelios and the best D men of Chara's time didn't measure up to him defensively.

Lidstrom was soft as a marshmallow and Pronger was hurt a lot and only had a handful of elite seasons. Those are the only 2 modern guys who deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Chara and Bourque and neither is perfect.

 

[BNHL]

Absolutely.

Chara's shortcoming is that he isn't as slick as Bourque. Bourque's shortcoming is that he isn't 6-8 and wasn't as high end a shut down guy.

Both players were the best at what they did in the NHL for almost the entirety of their careers. Neither should be criticized for not doing what the other did. You compare both to their contemporaries and they will prevail Bourque was a much better player than tools who stole Norris's from him like Leetch and Chelios and the best D men of Chara's time didn't measure up to him defensively.

Lidstrom was soft as a marshmallow and Pronger was hurt a lot and only had a handful of elite seasons. Those are the only 2 modern guys who deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Chara and Bourque and neither is perfect.

What???

 

[Number8]

Absolutely.

Chara's shortcoming is that he isn't as slick as Bourque. Bourque's shortcoming is that he isn't 6-8 and wasn't as high end a shut down guy.

Both players were the best at what they did in the NHL for almost the entirety of their careers. Neither should be criticized for not doing what the other did. You compare both to their contemporaries and they will prevail Bourque was a much better player than tools who stole Norris's from him like Leetch and Chelios and the best D men of Chara's time didn't measure up to him defensively.

Lidstrom was soft as a marshmallow and Pronger was hurt a lot and only had a handful of elite seasons. Those are the only 2 modern guys who deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Chara and Bourque and neither is perfect.

I'm with BNHL here, not sure if I see Lidstrom that way.

If he was, that would have to a four year old box of sinewy, tough Easter Marshmallow chicks sold in the dollar store.