OT: Strange Ray Bourque stat

[jgatie]

Absolutely.

Chara's shortcoming is that he isn't as slick as Bourque. Bourque's shortcoming is that he isn't 6-8 and wasn't as high end a shut down guy.

Both players were the best at what they did in the NHL for almost the entirety of their careers. Neither should be criticized for not doing what the other did. You compare both to their contemporaries and they will prevail Bourque was a much better player than tools who stole Norris's from him like Leetch and Chelios and the best D men of Chara's time didn't measure up to him defensively.

Sorry, but Chara was little more than a freak on the Island, and even up till him going to the Bruins, there were some (including the Sens management) who claimed Wade Frigging Redden was the better choice moving forward. It wasn't till he came to the Bruins that he became truly "the best at what (he) did in the NHL." Bourque, on the other hand, was a Calder winner and perennial All Star from the get go.

Lidstrom was soft as a marshmallow and Pronger was hurt a lot and only had a handful of elite seasons. Those are the only 2 modern guys who deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Chara and Bourque and neither is perfect.

Absurd. Nick Lidstrom was the best all around defenseman of his era. He didn't deserve all his Norris trophies, especially the one he stole from Chara, but he deserved more of them than anyone else in his era.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

You realize he was that "All Star teams" best defenseman? He was a first team all star in his final season.

Pisses me off when people talk about Bourque like he was a passenger on that Avs Cup run. Dude was a ****ing horse. They don't win that Cup without him.

Some may be interested to know that Bourque played more minutes in that season than anyone else in the league. At age 40.

13 times first team all-star and 6 times 2nd team all-star. Only Gordie Howe had more.

I appreciate Chara greatly. But he is not on the level of Orr, Shore or Bourque.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Sorry, but Chara was little more than a freak on the Island, and even up till him going to the Bruins, there were some (including the Sens management) who claimed Wade Frigging Redden was the better choice moving forward. It wasn't till he came to the Bruins that he became truly "the best at what (he) did in the NHL." Bourque, on the other hand, was a Calder winner and perennial All Star from the get go.



Absurd. Nick Lidstrom was the best all around defenseman of his era. He didn't deserve all his Norris trophies, especially the one he stole from Chara, but he deserved more of them than anyone else in his era.

Good player but Bourque was better than him.

Lidstrom was a more well rounded version of Neidermeyer. I don't mean to slam him but Bourque and Chara are equals to him. It bugs me when Bruins fans put Lidstrom above them.

Ask any old school Wings fan and they'll tell you Vladdy Konstantinov was better than him in his younger days and was shaping up to have the better career.


I don't have anything against Lidstrom except when he is put on a pedestal above the other great D men of his era like you would do for Orr. But he was very very good for a long time again a great player but head to head against other Hall of Famers he is pretty overrated.


A fully healthy Pronger with no back injuries would have been better than Chara I think thats the only guy who could have Z beat. Z chipped in enough points over his career and was so dominant defensively that I take him over Lidstrom if you can chose both for 1 game in their primes.

 

[jgatie]

Good player but Bourque was better than him.

Lidstrom was a more well rounded version of Neidermeyer. I don't mean to slam him but Bourque and Chara are equals to him. It bugs me when Bruins fans put Lidstrom above them.

Ask any old school Wings fan and they'll tell you Vladdy Konstantinov was better than him in his younger days and was shaping up to have the better career.


I don't have anything against Lidstrom except when he is put on a pedestal above the other great D men of his era like you would do for Orr. But he was very very good for a long time again a great player but head to head against other Hall of Famers he is pretty overrated.


A fully healthy Pronger with no back injuries would have been better than Chara I think thats the only guy who could have Z beat. Z chipped in enough points over his career and was so dominant defensively that I take him over Lidstrom if you can chose both for 1 game in their primes.

I don't put Lidstrom over Bourque, I do put him over Chara. Bourque was better than Lidstrom in all ways: Offense, defense, physicality, durability, longevity. Everything. I also don't consider Bourque part of Lidstrom's "era". Nobody who was drafted in the 70's is part of Lidstrom's era. I do consider Lidstrom better than Chara over his full career, with Chara being better than Lidstrom the last 4-5 years.

 

[Gordoff]

I'd throw Denis Potvin in the mix.

Yes, some never watched with an objective eye anyone besides those with a "B" on their chest.

Get real, Chara will go down as one of If not the Best " defenseman " to ever wear a B's uniform.

And is great captain/leader that help the Bruins get back to relevancy. Ray had many chances to win a cup with some great teams yet could not get it done.

He should have been traded long before he was to start a rebuild

There were a couple other pretty good Defense-men called ORR and PARK who I'm sure were almost as good as Mr. Chara.

Really: WHY do some here have to tear down a hockey GOD(s) to make a point???

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Good player but Bourque was better than him.

Lidstrom was a more well rounded version of Neidermeyer. I don't mean to slam him but Bourque and Chara are equals to him. It bugs me when Bruins fans put Lidstrom above them.

Ask any old school Wings fan and they'll tell you Vladdy Konstantinov was better than him in his younger days and was shaping up to have the better career.


I don't have anything against Lidstrom except when he is put on a pedestal above the other great D men of his era like you would do for Orr. But he was very very good for a long time again a great player but head to head against other Hall of Famers he is pretty overrated.


A fully healthy Pronger with no back injuries would have been better than Chara I think thats the only guy who could have Z beat. Z chipped in enough points over his career and was so dominant defensively that I take him over Lidstrom if you can chose both for 1 game in their primes.

One of those rare times I'll agree with you sans disclaimer.

I've always felt the same way and MAN is that an unpopular opinion.

 

[Neely08]

Bourque gave 100% all 1400+ games he played.

Hard to think of a player more beyond reproach.

The only guy that comes close for me in terms of consistency is Patrice Bergeron.

Apples and Oranges, I know. But, just in terms of night in and night out putting out the same effort, and delivering on what you have come to expect from them.

The plus/minus surprises me, then you factor in the inhuman minutes Bourque was eating up.

 

[doc5hole]

I just checked out his playoff stats at http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8445621

Their +/- numbers don't add up. It looks as though his Bruin year total should be +9 in the playoffs if you simply add and subtract each individual playoff season. Weird.

In any event, you're right about the 7 straight years with a minus. The one mitigating factor: in 4 of those years, Bruins lost in the first round, so you'd almost expect him to be a minus. How he ended up a minus in 1991 when they went to the Conference Finals is awfully surprising.

--BCN

They fell behind Hartford (for the 2nd year in a row), eked it out in 6; needed 7 to beat Montreal and lost to Pittsburgh in 6. Overall record in the '91 playoffs: 10-9. He also skated a ton of minutes playing for Milbury, who believed in going to the well until it was bone dry.

 

[Coors9]

If you lived through it , you'd see that Ray was really shut down on the power play . I can still see him rushed at the point every time the rubber was heading towards him. One of the best ever though...