Post-Game Talk: Stolen points - Flyers 2, Jets 3 (SO)

[dratbunnies]

It's not about creating some super inventive, unique system. It's about instilling a system of play where everyone knows their roles and understands their options, based on many different situations. It's the coaches job to get the team playing cohesively and disciplined in that respect. I still see the Jets struggling in this regard in any ways, not always, but often. I thought the Flyers were better than the Jets in that regard, they just don't have the talent to have it follow through.

Not to say none of it is on the players but I don't think the Jets are overly stupid hockey players.

By saying what? That they were more organized than the Jets? I think the Flyers were more organized than the Jets on the breakout, they simply didn't have the weapons up front to see it through, that's all.

Yeah execution is still mediocre and inconsistent, I see that as coaching to a large degree. Not sure what you mean by "leeway as not to hamper their offense" The team is still struggling to generate 5v5 and much of it has to do with how they are coming up the ice imo. Playing below the puck is a good thing, it's how you go about doing it that counts.

It's good that you acknowledge that some of it might be on the players instead of Maurice. I honestly don't think that is the prevailing opinion around here though. I mean, you even go on the say that the mediocre execution and inconsistency is "coaching to a large degree". I think hockey is an incredibly fast and difficult game, and just because our players make bad decisions does not mean they are overly stupid hockey players.

IMO players understand the coaching system but at times get a bit too greedy, or ambitious, or panicky, or just miss something and make the wrong split second read. I think that is to be expected in hockey. I really don't think that every performance problem is because the coach is behind the times and stubborn.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

They perform well enough from a systems perspective on the things that the coaching staff has really focussed on. For instance we are staring to get good at preventing those a ot chances (Number 1 focus of the staff both stated and verified by what ive seen in practice). They also are improving in how the gap and counter through the nz (Also something I've seen in practice a lot).

They however are lost on the breakout if their simplified up the board play doesn't work. I attribute this to the fact that our coaching staff has likely not prioritized this aspect of the system. I think this is the next thing they really need to spend a lot of time on. We have the skill and talent to run a much more robust zone wait strategy with multiple options based on how the other team is playing us. At the moment we have a very simple system with no back up options if the other team pinches aggresively. It is leading to improve from the wingers and is resulting in no body brig on the same page and hence all the turnover from forced passes by Laine etc.

I also think we need to start developing some offensive zone systems. Maurice seemingly let' our players freelance once there which is fine but some set plays with our talent level would be beneficial.

Interesting analysis. From the one practice I saw it was all tempo through the NZ. It paid off in the next few games as I remember, actually saw a difference in their attack of NZ turnovers.

 

[antiqueslivers]

I think armia walks away from this game walking on clouds. Finally a linemate that can make good on armia's sweet passes.


I'm starting to believe maN! These layers of pessimism are peeling away revealing a soft pulpy core of hope/belief in my home team and its terrifying!!!

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this as I didn't read all the thread but I'll be bluntly honest here, I don't like Buff on the ice in overtime, in my opinion we have a better chance not to cough up the puck with Trouba or Morrissey. I don't understand with the speed of our team how we don't dominate 3 on 3? None the less stoked we stole 2 points, character win for sure.

My issue with Buff in overtime is that he won't get off the ice after a normal 45 seconds. Then he gets caught out there and ends up on a 2-3 minute shift with 3 on 3 ice to cover. Stupid.

 

[TheKingPin]

I think you guys should have Ehlers looked at. I think he may have some kind of alien tech augmentation with his legs. The guy seems crazy dangerous. Glad you guys are having success. Good game.

 

[Aavco Cup]

 

[Ducky10]

Basically they cheat for offense that isn't how the system is designed. Leads to some of their poor corsi numbers.

We're not talking about the same things, and largely I don't think they've been cheating for offense all that much tbh.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

We're not talking about the same things, and largely I don't think they've been cheating for offense all that much tbh.

I tried to specify what I was meaning. I think we were both on different pages then.

As for cheating for offense... it's been fairly clear to me they have been especially in the Dzone. Chef/Wheels/Ehlers all appear to play quite a bit looser IMO.

Connor/Little/Laine have all seemed to be in better defensive position.

This may be by design or just how it's shaking out.

My view anyways.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

I think you guys should have Ehlers looked at. I think he may have some kind of alien tech augmentation with his legs. The guy seems crazy dangerous. Glad you guys are having success. Good game.

Lol. That would also explain why his groin didn't blow apart when he went into the boards off the Simmonds little crosscheck push.

Good on Simmonds for going out of his way to apologize afterwards as well. He clearly wasn't happy with how that play developed and it looked like misfortune not any intent to injury. Scary play though.

 

[Howard Chuck]

My issue with Buff in overtime is that he won't get off the ice after a normal 45 seconds. Then he gets caught out there and ends up on a 2-3 minute shift with 3 on 3 ice to cover. Stupid.

My wife thought I was crazy. I was yelling at the TV for him to get the hell off the ice. He could hardly skate.

 

[Ducky10]

It's good that you acknowledge that some of it might be on the players instead of Maurice. I honestly don't think that is the prevailing opinion around here though. I mean, you even go on the say that the mediocre execution and inconsistency is "coaching to a large degree". I think hockey is an incredibly fast and difficult game, and just because our players make bad decisions does not mean they are overly stupid hockey players.

IMO players understand the coaching system but at times get a bit too greedy, or ambitious, or panicky, or just miss something and make the wrong split second read. I think that is to be expected in hockey. I really don't think that every performance problem is because the coach is behind the times and stubborn.

I didn't say he was behind the times and stubborn. Bad decisions are one thing, so is the odd failed execution of a particular play but often it's a breakdown in what you are supposed to be doing. I'm not suggesting it's not something Maurice isn't working on, just that from my vantage point there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency, something I think coaching has a lot to do with.

 

[TheKingPin]

Lol. That would also explain why his groin didn't blow apart when he went into the boards off the Simmonds little crosscheck push.

Good on Simmonds for going out of his way to apologize afterwards as well. He clearly wasn't happy with how that play developed and it looked like misfortune not any intent to injury. Scary play though.

It was scary and a bad play. I think he just saw a player blowing past him and reacted.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Connor Hellebuyck was rattled after getting left hanging by Dustin Byfuglien - Article - BARDOWN

 

[dratbunnies]

I didn't say he was behind the times and stubborn. Bad decisions are one thing, so is the odd failed execution of a particular play but often it's a breakdown in what you are supposed to be doing. I'm not suggesting it's not something Maurice isn't working on, just that from my vantage point there doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency, something I think coaching has a lot to do with.

Fair enough, sorry for putting word in your mouth!

I understand and largely agree that coaching has a large impact on the consistency of players performances, but I do think you may be underrating the contributions of players as well. It seems pretty obvious that the have more of an impact on their on-ice performance and execution of the system than the coach would.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

It was scary and a bad play. I think he just saw a player blowing past him and reacted.

He had the right reaction. Shit happens in hockey.

 

[Flair Hay]

Got to watch from row 6 in the corner. What an awesome experience. The skill of these guys is something else.

 

[SoCalJetsFan]

Folks have been so worried about the Corsi they forgot about the Scorsi.

The Jets are winning despite Maurice and his ineptitude. I am not even going to go through it all again here, but one very obvious example of coaching issues where hockey professionals are actually publically laughing at us - Special Teams.

Are these hockey professionals representing teams that are above the Jets in the standings? or below?

 

[mcpw]

Goals	16-17	17-18
5v5 w/ Scheifele,Little	107-93	24-20
5v5 w/o Scheifele,Little	49-71	11-11
PP and SH	58-71	18-15
other (4v4, 3v3, EN)	32-20	5-3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[GNP]

This was a very close competitive game. Overall - approaching the 1/4 part
of the season, we can see we have a changed team here. They are starting
to develop an identity, and not panic when their down, and come back
and win. The Jet's are building character here.( not falling apart)

I think Chevy needs to be given a lot of credit for recruiting a lot of the
talented players we have. He's really built the team- he's a great GM, and
not throwing money out the window on "over bucked" contracts.$$$$

Now that Maurice has a good team to coach, with great Goaltending, so far
he's done pretty good with this young team-- so fans/posters should give him a
chance, and see what he can do. We have a good shot at 1st in the Central.
I know their is mixed sentiment on Maurice, but I think some of the posters
should see what he can do this year, before coming down on him.

In summary, you can haggle over line combos, and player personnel, and
different strategies etc., but the results are there. Including the last 7 games
in 2016 ( Jets won 7 straight) and this year so far the Jet's are 17-4. They have
only lost 4 games in the last 21 they played. Not to bad at all-right !!!

This team is only going to get better, as the youth develops. Over time line
shuffling will happen, and we'll see who has the right chemistry together.

Overall, especially with great Goaltending, the Jet's fans on here, should be
happy with, and acknowledge the success we're having, even though you
may not agree with some of the game strategies deployed.( lines etc)

It's nice to have a Winner here in our City--rather than a loser.
( This club has "deep talent") We'll be in the playoffs "for sure."

NOTE- If we beat the red hot Devils on Saturday, that will be 4 in a row,
and give us a great idea, where this team stands. It will be a close game,
and our chances are good. Likely be a 1 goal game !!!

 

[DarthMonty]

If I'm dreaming, pinch me.

- Fourth overall in points with games in hand on all teams ahead in standing?

- Four points out of Central first place with a game in hand?

- Tied for fifth in ROW (with games in hand on all teams ahead in standing save Vegas)?

- Tied for fifth overall in goal differential (with games in hand on all teams ahead in standing)?

- Player(s) in top ten positions in all individual statistics categories except for shut-outs?

So pardon me if I don't get horribly worked up over the Jets spotting the Flyers two goals and then needing a shootout to claim the two points in the standings. I was hugely entertained by that game; the Jets got a win; Hellebuyck continued looking like a top flight goalie; Tanev and the other bottom six hombres came through; and Laine continued his points streak.

All in all, the Jets did what so-called good teams do when faced with adversity - they didn't collapse as in teams of yore, and found a way to get the W.

 

[Romang67]

If I'm dreaming, pinch me.

- Fourth overall in points with games in hand on all teams ahead in standing?

- Four points out of Central first place with a game in hand?

- Tied for fifth in ROW (with games in hand on all teams ahead in standing save Vegas)?

- Tied for fifth overall in goal differential (with games in hand on all teams ahead in standing)?

- Player(s) in top ten positions in all individual statistics categories except for shut-outs?

So pardon me if I don't get horribly worked up over the Jets spotting the Flyers two goals and then needing a shootout to claim the two points in the standings. I was hugely entertained by that game; the Jets got a win; Hellebuyck continued looking like a top flight goalie; Tanev and the other bottom six hombres came through; and Laine continued his points streak.

All in all, the Jets did what so-called good teams do when faced with adversity - they didn't collapse as in teams of yore, and found a way to get the W.

 

[Atoyot]

If I'm dreaming, pinch me.

- Fourth overall in points with games in hand on all teams ahead in standing?

- Four points out of Central first place with a game in hand?

- Tied for fifth in ROW (with games in hand on all teams ahead in standing save Vegas)?

- Tied for fifth overall in goal differential (with games in hand on all teams ahead in standing)?

- Player(s) in top ten positions in all individual statistics categories except for shut-outs?

So pardon me if I don't get horribly worked up over the Jets spotting the Flyers two goals and then needing a shootout to claim the two points in the standings. I was hugely entertained by that game; the Jets got a win; Hellebuyck continued looking like a top flight goalie; Tanev and the other bottom six hombres came through; and Laine continued his points streak.

All in all, the Jets did what so-called good teams do when faced with adversity - they didn't collapse as in teams of yore, and found a way to get the W.

I'll give you a pinch, we actually have 2 games in hand on St Louis

 

[Aavco Cup]

Are the Winnipeg Jets Canada's best team? - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Maukkis]

Are the Winnipeg Jets Canada's best team? - Sportsnet.ca

Some fanbase will be upset.

 

[Ducky10]

I thought you were implying we out talented Philly. That part.

It's my belief many see us as having a large talent advantage over other teams. I'm not sure there is always as large a gap there as many others do.

I think we are a much more offensively talented team than Philly, at least on a player to player basis.