Confirmed Trade: [STL/WAS] Shattenkirk 39% rtnd, Copley for Sanford, Malone, 1st ('17), cndl 2nd ('19)

[txpd]

No excuses left for WSH now.

Being fair, the Caps haven't had any excuses since 2008-2009 when they lost in the 7 games to the Pens. That team was every bit as good as the Pens and lost. If they have the best record in the league again this season, it will be for the 3rd time with Ovechkin. Did they really have excuses last season?

 

[Oberyn]

Even if they thought they could get him in the fifth round, if you're really high on him you'd draft him in the third round just to guarantee it since you never really know what other scouts are doing.

This is a quote from an article on Parayko last summer. A few teams that actually knew about him were thinking of selecting him in the 4th/5th round which is why the Blues pulled the trigger earlier in the 3rd. Didn't want to risk it any longer.

Chicago, Toronto and Edmonton were all sniffing around ahead of the 2011 draft, Thibodeau says. He thought the Blackhawks and Maple Leafs might take a chance, but neither did. The draft chatter picked up a bit more in Parayko's sophomore season with Alaska.

At that point, despite his absence on central scouting's radar, a few teams were prepared to grab Parayko in the fourth or fifth round, according to Thibodeau, but the Blues struck first in the third round. Marshall Davidson, then an area scout for St. Louis, had done his homework on Parayko, who had nine goals and 33 points as an NHL rookie.

 

[txpd]

This is actually pretty funny, and not true at all

He's your player. Not mine. The reports on him from the Canadian media indicate as I posted. His ice time says that he doesn't pk unless I read it wrong.

He has outstanding offensive skills. You are saying he is a legit 1d? that's great if he is but...

 

[illpucks]

Being fair, the Caps haven't had any excuses since 2008-2009 when they lost in the 7 games to the Pens. That team was every bit as good as the Pens and lost. If they have the best record in the league again this season, it will be for the 3rd time with Ovechkin. Did they really have excuses last season?

Depth and speed. Kuznetsov not showing up in the playoffs.

 

[txpd]

Depth and speed. Kuznetsov not showing up in the playoffs.

Those are reasons. For instance, what is keeping Kuznetsov from going missing again? Nothing. Orpik was a mess because of the broken leg during the season and the concussion in the playoffs. Oshie is out of the lineup for the 3rd time for injury this season. Were he to be injured again, would that be a reason or an excuse?

Hell, the entire Erat/Forsberg laughing stock thing has a completely different feel if Ov doesn't run Erat over and break his arm. Taking him out of the playoffs. If he scores one timely goal vs the Rangers and the Caps get to the ECF, its not so funny anymore.

Who says the team the Caps have on paper will ever see the playoffs?

 

[illpucks]

Those are reasons. For instance, what is keeping Kuznetsov from going missing again? Nothing. Orpik was a mess because of the broken leg during the season and the concussion in the playoffs. Oshie is out of the lineup for the 3rd time for injury this season. Were he to be injured again, would that be a reason or an excuse?

Hell, the entire Erat/Forsberg laughing stock thing has a completely different feel if Ov doesn't run Erat over and break his arm. Taking him out of the playoffs. If he scores one timely goal vs the Rangers and the Caps get to the ECF, its not so funny anymore.

Who says the team the Caps have on paper will ever see the playoffs?

Biggest change is 3rd line with Burakovsky and Connelly. They are a threat and scoring consistently. Last season was a 2 line team with Kuzy's line going MIA. Now you have at least a 3 line team.

 

[Sam Spade]

The Caps are not favorites for anything except making the playoffs. They are the Caps they wont be the favorites to win the cup until Bettman hands it to Ov.

Even at that point I would be expecting a coaches challenge to take the Cup away.


This move solidifies the team and it is a good one but a healthy Pens team is the favorite, no doubt in my mind.

 

[txpd]

Biggest change is 3rd line with Burakovsky and Connelly. They are a threat and scoring consistently. Last season was a 2 line team with Kuzy's line going MIA. Now you have at least a 3 line team.

That's really not the point. The Caps lost Oshie, Niskanen and Orpik in one game last week. These things can happen in playoffs. What then? Usually there are reasons why the Caps lose. Things that you hadn't thought of before it happens.

What I do know is that Kuzy disappears again this playoffs, the Caps wont be winning

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Well even if the Caps fail horribly in the playoffs, at least the fans know they'll have drinking buddies in St. Louis...

 

[Mothra]

Shattenkirk skates between Orlov and Niskanen for speed. He is not that good without the puck or in his own zone. Reirden and Trotz will have to coach him up.
He does not PK and therefore again is like Orlov.

This a right handed Orlov with more experience.

Orlov has played good hockey since about mid December, before that it was lots of ups and downs IMO

your remarks make it sound like he is at Shattenkirks level and I dont think he is

 

[Rabid Ranger]

He's your player. Not mine. The reports on him from the Canadian media indicate as I posted. His ice time says that he doesn't pk unless I read it wrong.

He has outstanding offensive skills. You are saying he is a legit 1d? that's great if he is but...

What makes the "Canadian media" (whoever that is) an expert on the kind of player Shattenkirk is?

 

[Mike Liut]

This trade basically boils down to Shattenkirk at 39% retained for 1st in 2017 and conditional 2nd in 2019.

This is a very good deal for WSH. STL should've gotten more for Shattenkirk.

What about Sanford? He's the player the Blues really wanted.

 

[TerminatorBlue]

Doug Armstrong is a disaster, St.louis has no direction what so ever now.

 

[KirkOut]

What about Sanford? He's the player the Blues really wanted.

That reminds me of when everyone said Copley was the player we really wanted in the Oshie deal

 

[Revelation]

That reminds me of when everyone said Copley was the player we really wanted in the Oshie deal

Except Sanford is already an NHLer with upside.

 

[sycamore]

This move solidifies the team and it is a good one but a healthy Pens team is the favorite, no doubt in my mind.

A healthy Caps team beats a healthy Pens team IMO. Caps O is pretty comparable with that of the Pens, while the Caps D is far and way better than anything the Pens have.

 

[cska78]

Orlov has played good hockey since about mid December, before that it was lots of ups and downs IMO

your remarks make it sound like he is at Shattenkirks level and I dont think he is

to those following Orlov since his junior days in Russia his decent play is no surprise. He needed to adjust his size and decision making to a different rink size. He was possibly the best Russian d-man at the WC (which is not great achievement nowadays, but still)
As for Shatenkirk, didn't see much of him for the blues, but for Colorado he was a PP guy, prompt to defensive lapses. I would say his PP level play is elite, but what else?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

to those following Orlov since his junior days in Russia his decent play is no surprise. He needed to adjust his size and decision making to a different rink size. He was possibly the best Russian d-man at the WC (which is not great achievement nowadays, but still)
As for Shatenkirk, didn't see much of him for the blues, but for Colorado he was a PP guy, prompt to defensive lapses. I would say his PP level play is elite, but what else?

So you're basing your evaluation of Shattenkirk on his Avalanche days?

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

to those following Orlov since his junior days in Russia his decent play is no surprise. He needed to adjust his size and decision making to a different rink size. He was possibly the best Russian d-man at the WC (which is not great achievement nowadays, but still)
As for Shatenkirk, didn't see much of him for the blues, but for Colorado he was a PP guy, prompt to defensive lapses. I would say his PP level play is elite, but what else?

That's an outdated evaluation

 

[bradrich99]

Oh poor Blues.

Because of this, Avs have officially won the EJ/Shattenkirk+Stewart trade.

Just having fun looking at this one. I guess as of today the trade stands EJ and Duncan Siemens for 1st rnd pick, cond. 2nd round pick, Zach Sanford and Ty Rattie.

Since Rattie and Siemens are ceiling AHL'ers we are left with:

EJ for 1st rnd pick, cond. 2nd round pick, Zach Sanford

All in all pretty even.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

going all in here good for them

 

[bigduga]

That's an outdated evaluation

As a blues fan that's watched shatty for six-ish years...it's not horribly outdated.

Shattenkirk isn't a bad defenseman by any stretch of the imagination, but he will get hung up looking awful trying to make home-run plays from time to time because his offensive vision out-thinks his common sense.

you take the good with the bad, because he's very good offensively and an absolute killer with the man advantage, but he does dance around the margins of what most people consider good 5-on-5 defense, especially if he goes a little cold offensively and starts pressing.

 

[bluetuned]

That's an outdated evaluation

As a Blues fan... that's still pretty much the book on him. He hasn't really evolved a ton as a player. He was an excellent offensive defenseman pretty much as soon as he got to the NHL, and while his defensive game has improved, it's still pretty average. He's still prone to defensive lapses. Put him on the powerplay and he'll make good things happen. Put him in his own end against the opponent's top line and he'll get exposed.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

As a blues fan that's watched shatty for six-ish years...it's not horribly outdated.

Shattenkirk isn't a bad defenseman by any stretch of the imagination, but he will get hung up looking awful trying to make home-run plays from time to time because his offensive vision out-thinks his common sense.

you take the good with the bad, because he's very good offensively and an absolute killer with the man advantage, but he does dance around the margins of what most people consider good 5-on-5 defense, especially if he goes a little cold offensively and starts pressing.

As a Blues fan... that's still pretty much the book on him. He hasn't really evolved a ton as a player. He was an excellent offensive defenseman pretty much as soon as he got to the NHL, and while his defensive game has improved, it's still pretty average. He's still prone to defensive lapses. Put him on the powerplay and he'll make good things happen. Put him in his own end against the opponent's top line and he'll get exposed.

Those things are true for just about any offensive D in the league. Shattenkirk has rounded out his game since his rookie year. He's only going to get easy match ups in the playoffs, Niskanen and Carlson can shoulder the rest of the load. Shatty can easily take on whatever he'll be given, likely 3rd and 4th lines.

 

[bigduga]

Those things are true for just about any offensive D in the league. Shattenkirk has rounded out his game since his rookie year. He's only going to get easy match ups in the playoffs, Niskanen and Carlson can shoulder the rest of the load. Shatty can easily take on whatever he'll be given, likely 3rd and 4th lines.

His individual defensive game hasn't "rounded out" all that much in six years...he maybe played in a more defensive minded system, but he's not really a lot better defensively today than he was when he stepped off the plane from Colorado. If it had, the Blues would've likely moved other pieces around to keep the guy, or at least would've given him more defensive responsibility protecting leads.

Believe me, as a blues fan that understands what it's like to watch my team get bounced out of the playoffs year after year, and as a fan f the team who gets an additional draft pick if you make it to the ECF - i sincerely hope it works out as cleanly as you think it will.

There are road games in the playoffs. It's not as neat and easy as "just make sure Kevin Shattenkirk is only out there against the forwards that cant hurt you".