Confirmed Signing with Link: [STL] Jake Allen re-signs (4 years, $4.35M AAV)

[Bleedred]

I know it's only a few games, but he really melted down two years in a row in a playoffs. He was awful in the last two games against Minnesota last year in the playoffs and was one of the Sharks best players in game 6 of this past years playoffs. I was no huge fan of Elliott, but he was fantastic in the first two rounds and stole game 1 of the WCF.

I'm not a huge believer in this goaltender, but I admit it's a small sample size and he can change my opinion. He is by no means a lost cause.

If I was a Blues fan, I would hope for Bishop. Bishop at least would make me feel good about a deep playoff run. Allen is more than good enough that the team will make the playoffs, but I wouldn't trust him for a big run yet. He's probably capable, but the last few playoff games were ugly for him.

 

[Bleedred]

And Elliott is God, right? I seem to remember one of these goalies being sent down to Peoria because he couldn't get his crap together, the other one was Jake Allen.

Yes, I remember that year as well. The same year that Elliott still finished with a higher save percentage at even strength and overall than Jake Allen, even in Elliott's worst season as a Blue.

Just like every season they've both been in the NHL at the same time, Elliott has been the better goaltender.

 

[NORiculous]

Yes, I remember that year as well. The same year that Elliott still finished with a higher save percentage at even strength and overall than Jake Allen, even in Elliott's worst season as a Blue.

Just like every season they've both been in the NHL at the same time, Elliott has been the better goaltender.

If Elliott wasn't better he would have been traded. Oh wait...

Allen is younger and still learning and had a good first half before being injured. When was the last time he played when he was trown in the playoffs?

Had Elliott not stood on his head for so long ( only to crumble at the wrong time ) no one knows how Allen would have done and it took away some playing time.

Blues had to pick and they went with the younger one with higher potential.

 

[KingBran]

And Elliott is God, right? I seem to remember one of these goalies being sent down to Peoria because he couldn't get his crap together, the other one was Jake Allen.

Did Brian Elliott get us closer to the Cup? Yes, did he get us a Cup? No.

In a world where Ells and Allen are comparable in talent (and they are), I'll take Allen with the age, contract (which is indeed a nice contract), ability to move the puck, as well as potential over Elliott who, Blues fans seem to think is infallible in net. Ells was just as, if not MORE inconsistent than Allen has been throughout the latters duration as a netminder in a Bluenote. (And no, I don't hate Elliott, I just see the merits of trading him and think it was a good trade.)

Well Said. I think a HUGE part of Ells' popularity is the fact that nobody expected anything and he had a great run last season. Allen, people are expecting the next Brodeur because he has been talked about A LOT.

Ells has pretty good numbers with STL but remember that about 80% of his time here he was a backup playing lesser teams. I see some fans saying "Great traded away your franchise leader in shutouts". Well, Halak was just that when he was traded too but you wont see anyone crying that he is gone. Point is, he is a fan favorite that is overrated by lots of Blues fans. He is still a good keep but he has yet to prove any consistency. He never beat the Blackhawks in CHI until this past season. He has always struggled against what was considered to be top teams around the league until this season.

I know it's only a few games, but he really melted down two years in a row in a playoffs. He was awful in the last two games against Minnesota last year in the playoffs and was one of the Sharks best players in game 6 of this past years playoffs. I was no huge fan of Elliott, but he was fantastic in the first two rounds and stole game 1 of the WCF.

I'm not a huge believer in this goaltender, but I admit it's a small sample size and he can change my opinion. He is by no means a lost cause.

If I was a Blues fan, I would hope for Bishop. Bishop at least would make me feel good about a deep playoff run. Allen is more than good enough that the team will make the playoffs, but I wouldn't trust him for a big run yet. He's probably capable, but the last few playoff games were ugly for him.

You say Allen was awful but in the Blues L's last playoffs they scored a total of 4 goals in 4 games (2, 1, 1, 0) So basically Allen was required to make at least two more shutouts to even have a chance at beating MIN. Not only that but his GAA was 2.20 with a .904 sv% those playoffs. Elliott this season was 2.844 with a .911 sv%

Elliott is not and never was leagues ahead of Allen. In fact, their career numbers speak differently and Allen has never consistently struggled playing top teams around the league like Elliott has.

 

[Ranksu]

I believe in Corsi and he was behind giving Allen #1 spot. Has Allen deserved this contract not by a country mile tbh. Will Blues going to have problem with this contract,- I don't think so, but with unproven Allen as a #1 yes. When Allen will fall we run with Hutton, dear lord. After Hutton fall we run guy who's first year in NA.

Well this means Husso will get call-ups and real look in NHL next season.

We might see mid of November Doug Armstrong get fired.

If not 29 other GM's will use desperste Army on advance when he'll acquire vet goaltender as a rental, price will be on sky.

 

[BlueOil]

And Elliott is God, right? I seem to remember one of these goalies being sent down to Peoria because he couldn't get his crap together, the other one was Jake Allen.

Did Brian Elliott get us closer to the Cup? Yes, did he get us a Cup? No.

In a world where Ells and Allen are comparable in talent (and they are), I'll take Allen with the age, contract (which is indeed a nice contract), ability to move the puck, as well as potential over Elliott who, Blues fans seem to think is infallible in net. Ells was just as, if not MORE inconsistent than Allen has been throughout the latters duration as a netminder in a Bluenote. (And no, I don't hate Elliott, I just see the merits of trading him and think it was a good trade.)

Merits of trading him? He asked for a trade, so we traded him. Not sure what else you're adding into that.

It's always Allen vs. Elliott so I understand you're overreaction about this. But speaking strictly about Allen, I'm not excited about this contract. Allen has a lot of work to do just to become a starting goaltender, much less a good one. He's never played more than 44 games a season and has struggled under pressure consistently at every level. He'll probably handle the starting load, but I will not be surprised when he's not much more than an average starter who goes on a hot streak occasionally.

Elliott wasn't ready to be a starter, though it's not like the Blues ever actually gave him a full shot like they're willing to do with Allen. The notion that Elliott was more inconsistent when he regularly posted better numbers than Allen is mildly amusing.

I can't help but laugh when I read people saying they prefer Allen due to his age and contract. Was this anything more than a business decision after the other goalie asked to leave? There are a lot of cheaper and younger goalies out there, doubt it makes them better like people insist it does with Allen.

Blues are gambling on that handing the starting job to Allen will allow him to turn into a good NHL starter. He certainly couldn't out compete Elliott.

 

[BlueOil]

Well Said. I think a HUGE part of Ells' popularity is the fact that nobody expected anything and he had a great run last season. Allen, people are expecting the next Brodeur because he has been talked about A LOT.

No one expects Allen to be Brodeur. People expected Allen to out compete Elliott and secure the starting job, which he couldn't do and now that the other goalie has left, he's being handed it.

Ells has pretty good numbers with STL but remember that about 80% of his time here he was a backup playing lesser teams. I see some fans saying "Great traded away your franchise leader in shutouts". Well, Halak was just that when he was traded too but you wont see anyone crying that he is gone. Point is, he is a fan favorite that is overrated by lots of Blues fans. He is still a good keep but he has yet to prove any consistency. He never beat the Blackhawks in CHI until this past season. He has always struggled against what was considered to be top teams around the league until this season.

80%? Elliott was either the 1A or 1B of a tandem all 5 years he was here. He's never been the designated back up because Halak was never healthy enough to be the starter.

If we're going to knock Elliott on his inconsistentcy, same goes for Allen, who's just as inconsistent if not worse at times.

Can you please post these stats you claim?
A) Who are you considering a top team
B) Please post Allen's stats against the top teams

You say Allen was awful but in the Blues L's last playoffs they scored a total of 4 goals in 4 games (2, 1, 1, 0) So basically Allen was required to make at least two more shutouts to even have a chance at beating MIN. Not only that but his GAA was 2.20 with a .904 sv% those playoffs. Elliott this season was 2.844 with a .911 sv%

Allen not being awful =/= Allen being good. He was not the reason we lost or even a problem, but he has yet to have a good playoffs at any level.

Elliott is not and never was leagues ahead of Allen. In fact, their career numbers speak differently and Allen has never consistently struggled playing top teams around the league like Elliott has.

Career numbers favor Elliott, every single year. Again, please post these stats regarding top teams so we can all see what you're talking about. I personally would be surprised if that were true.

I will agree Elliott was never leagues ahead of Allen, but he has been consistently better than Allen so far. Allen's being handed the reigns without earning it and that's why fans are divided on whether or not this is a good contact. He may live up to it by the end, but he's not worth it yet.

 

[NORiculous]

No one expects Allen to be Brodeur. People expected Allen to out compete Elliott and secure the starting job, which he couldn't do and now that the other goalie has left, he's being handed it.



80%? Elliott was either the 1A or 1B of a tandem all 5 years he was here. He's never been the designated back up because Halak was never healthy enough to be the starter.

If we're going to knock Elliott on his inconsistentcy, same goes for Allen, who's just as inconsistent if not worse at times.

Can you please post these stats you claim?
A) Who are you considering a top team
B) Please post Allen's stats against the top teams



Allen not being awful =/= Allen being good. He was not the reason we lost or even a problem, but he has yet to have a good playoffs at any level.



Career numbers favor Elliott, every single year. Again, please post these stats regarding top teams so we can all see what you're talking about. I personally would be surprised if that were true.

I will agree Elliott was never leagues ahead of Allen, but he has been consistently better than Allen so far. Allen's being handed the reigns without earning it and that's why fans are divided on whether or not this is a good contact. He may live up to it by the end, but he's not worth it yet.

Halak was the #1 when he got traded and this situation is very similar.

Halak had to leave to let Carey grow.

Time will tell if Jake grows ( and most probably not as big as Carey, but who knows.. Right?) or not.

If Elliott did asked for a trade then he made it an easy descision.

 

[SteenMachine]

Halak was the #1 when he got traded and this situation is very similar.

Halak had to leave to let Carey grow.

Time will tell if Jake grows ( and most probably not as big as Carey, but who knows.. Right?) or not.

If Elliott did asked for a trade then he made it an easy descision.

Elliott wanted to be the starter before he agreed to an extension and they told him they were gonna give it to Allen anyway so he asked for a trade. Elliott being moved has everything to do with them assuming Allen will be better than Allen currently is.

People are mad because Allen's not that player yet, he's also not someone who steals wins in a 7 game series and in the modern NHL that's a huge advantage no matter what you did during the regular season.

If Allen actually came in and took the starting job from Elliott at any point people would be a lot more excited about this but he didn't, he progressed from a prospect to a rookie and now he's just been declared a full time NHL starter based on 3 months of play when the team in front of him was healthiest.

 

[KingBran]

No one expects Allen to be Brodeur. People expected Allen to out compete Elliott and secure the starting job, which he couldn't do and now that the other goalie has left, he's being handed it.

He couldn't do? How so? He was given the starting job last season, played amazing and kept the Blues at the top of the standings all while the Blues had a negative goal differential. Only reason he wasn't starting the second half / playoffs is because he got injured and Ells played out of his mind. Which is the only time in STL Ells has played THAT good against top teams around the league.



80%? Elliott was either the 1A or 1B of a tandem all 5 years he was here. He's never been the designated back up because Halak was never healthy enough to be the starter.

He definitely got the play against worse teams and always struggled against good teams. That's why he was 1a or 1b. He could never consistently beat good teams so he was never the starter.

If we're going to knock Elliott on his inconsistentcy, same goes for Allen, who's just as inconsistent if not worse at times.

When? Allen was 22-7-4 his first NHL season. 26-15-3 last season. Yeah those are terrible and horribly inconsistent numbers right? And if you want to talk about the playoffs. Again... The Blues scored 2, 1, 1, 0 goals in their 4 losses. Even god... I mean Elliott wouldn't have won those games.

Can you please post these stats you claim?
A) Who are you considering a top team
B) Please post Allen's stats against the top teams

A) Just did. You even quoted many of the stats I posted that disprove your theories.
B) Allen was the first Blues goalie to beat CHI in CHI since Hitch has been coach. He is also the first to beat them three times in a row since Hitch has been coach. He has beat more playoff contending teams during the regular season than Ells has on average. These are facts I have posted in quite a few places. I won't do ALL of your research but at least I am posting some actual stats here. You are posting opinions.


Allen not being awful =/= Allen being good. He was not the reason we lost or even a problem, but he has yet to have a good playoffs at any level.

Allen being good = Allen being good. Take off your rose colored glasses. Winning %, SV%, GAA... All better than Elliott's. Stats = facts.


Career numbers favor Elliott, every single year. Again, please post these stats regarding top teams so we can all see what you're talking about. I personally would be surprised if that were true.

No they don't. See above

I will agree Elliott was never leagues ahead of Allen, but he has been consistently better than Allen so far. Allen's being handed the reigns without earning it and that's why fans are divided on whether or not this is a good contact. He may live up to it by the end, but he's not worth it yet.

Notice how I am posting actual stats. You are posting assumptions that are wrong, act like they are fact then tell me to prove you wrong. I don't have to, the facts are the facts and the stats are the stats. You are too lazy to go look them up is not my problem. How about you try to prove me wrong since I have actually disproved A LOT of what you say. Your turn.

My comments in bold.

 

[Slush]

I think Allen will be a great starter. It might take some time for him to get comfortable as a starter but in the end it will be a great thing for the Blues.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Blueton-Perhaps I missed it but where are those stats showing how Elliott struggled against good teams? If you have not post them, please do. I'd also like to know how beating Chicago in Chicago suddenly means a goalie beats the good teams. It's one game. You need more to back up that assertion. You also talk about Allens record in order to prove he was not inconsistent, but there is so much more to look at as the record is about the team, not just the goalie. I like Allen a lot and want him to be a star, but he was very inconsistent. Making an amazing save one minute than giving up a goal on the short side because he isn't on the post the next. When it comes to your assertion about stats, you are completely wrong. Stats are meaningless without context and you provide zero context.

 

[KingBran]

Blueton-Perhaps I missed it but where are those stats showing how Elliott struggled against good teams? If you have not post them, please do. I'd also like to know how beating Chicago in Chicago suddenly means a goalie beats the good teams. It's one game. You need more to back up that assertion. You also talk about Allens record in order to prove he was not inconsistent, but there is so much more to look at as the record is about the team, not just the goalie. I like Allen a lot and want him to be a star, but he was very inconsistent. Making an amazing save one minute than giving up a goal on the short side because he isn't on the post the next. When it comes to your assertion about stats, you are completely wrong. Stats are meaningless without context and you provide zero context.

The CHI example was just that - an example. Sorry but I am not going to go through the game log of the Blues for the past 5 seasons and do everyones research for them. I have made plenty of other points and posted plenty of stats to prove my points. I watch the Blues religiously and watched when Halak went down a couple different times, Ells got sent to the minors... etc. Ells lost lots of games to playoff contending teams and won a few games against non-playoff teams.

he was treated like a backup for most of his career in STL and had great numbers while other goalies got good numbers against good teams. He was never able to handle the load until last season. He has done it once in the many years he was in STL. By "it" I mean consistently play well against playoff teams.

I can do last season:
Dallas - Allen - 3W's Elliott 1W.
Chicago - Allen - 2W's Elliott 1W.
Anaheim - Allen - 2W's Elliott 0W.
Nashville - Allen 3W's Elliott 1W.
Kings - Allen 0W's Elliott 2W's (Allen Injured at this time)
Sharks - Allen 0W's Elliott 1W's (Allen Injured at this time)
Tampa - Allen 1W Elliott 1W
Washington - Allen 1W Elliott 0W
Pittsburgh - Allen 0W Elliott 1W

If you want to go look at each playoff team the Blues played in the past 5 seasons and look at the W's the Blues had and find out which goalie it was, be my guest, here is a link where you can change the year at the top and see who won what game:

http://blues.nhl.com/club/teamvsteam.htm

 

[ChuckLefley]

The CHI example was just that - an example. Sorry but I am not going to go through the game log of the Blues for the past 5 seasons and do everyones research for them. I have made plenty of other points and posted plenty of stats to prove my points. I watch the Blues religiously and watched when Halak went down a couple different times, Ells got sent to the minors... etc. Ells lost lots of games to playoff contending teams and won a few games against non-playoff teams.

he was treated like a backup for most of his career in STL and had great numbers while other goalies got good numbers against good teams. He was never able to handle the load until last season. He has done it once in the many years he was in STL. By "it" I mean consistently play well against playoff teams.

I can do last season:
Dallas - Allen - 3W's Elliott 1W.
Chicago - Allen - 2W's Elliott 1W.
Anaheim - Allen - 2W's Elliott 0W.
Nashville - Allen 3W's Elliott 1W.
Kings - Allen 0W's Elliott 2W's (Allen Injured at this time)
Sharks - Allen 0W's Elliott 1W's (Allen Injured at this time)
Tampa - Allen 1W Elliott 1W
Washington - Allen 1W Elliott 0W
Pittsburgh - Allen 0W Elliott 1W

If you want to go look at each playoff team the Blues played in the past 5 seasons and look at the W's the Blues had and find out which goalie it was, be my guest, here is a link where you can change the year at the top and see who won what game:

http://blues.nhl.com/club/teamvsteam.htm

I always love when people make a claim and then, when questioned, respond by saying they aren't going to do research for other people. It's funny that YOU said someone else was lazy.

Posting wins proves nothing as wins and losses are a team stat. I said that already, but you choose to ignore that.

Combine the two things I've mentioned and it sure sounds like you have nothing to back up what you claim. I also notice what you decided to ignore in my post.

Perhaps you should post over at the asylum, you'd fit in well with them.

 

[Brendonhayden]

This contract looks amazing after the markstrom signing

 

[NORiculous]

Elliott wanted to be the starter before he agreed to an extension and they told him they were gonna give it to Allen anyway so he asked for a trade. Elliott being moved has everything to do with them assuming Allen will be better than Allen currently is.

People are mad because Allen's not that player yet, he's also not someone who steals wins in a 7 game series and in the modern NHL that's a huge advantage no matter what you did during the regular season.

If Allen actually came in and took the starting job from Elliott at any point people would be a lot more excited about this but he didn't, he progressed from a prospect to a rookie and now he's just been declared a full time NHL starter based on 3 months of play when the team in front of him was healthiest.

Price had a vary similar start...

(I'm not saying Allen will become Price).

And every fan in MTL had their eyes on Price and the pressure was HUGE. But then something happend because Price was going too ( or giving the impression of) collapse.

What happened?

PK Suban took ALL of the spotlight and the majority of the people just forgot about all the Price vs. Halak and the pessure that was on Price.

When the spotlight cane back. (It was not as bright as before because PK was still taken more the his share) Price had gotten a little more experience and it was enough. People kept going back to PK instead.

That gave Price the opportunity the fulfill his development without as much pressure.

The rest is history.

Allen is a good goalie. He might become great ( or not ) but he sure as heck has a strong shot to be better then Elliott. At worse, he should be equal.

So anyway, I just thought the comparison with Price/Halak was good.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

I'll never understand people's obsession with big deals for young players.

Not all young players improve. As of right now this is not a good contract.

It could be soon, but this isn't good now.

 

[pierre gagnon*]

This contract looks amazing after the markstrom signing

Yes I have to agree

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Good deal. He's not the first young goalie to have a poor playoffs.

 

[Tryblot]

Good deal. He's not the first young goalie to have a poor playoffs.

The problem is he's been poor in pressure situations at every level. Why would that change now? Maybe it could, but I'm not expecting it.

 

[KingBran]

I always love when people make a claim and then, when questioned, respond by saying they aren't going to do research for other people. It's funny that YOU said someone else was lazy.

Posting wins proves nothing as wins and losses are a team stat. I said that already, but you choose to ignore that.

Combine the two things I've mentioned and it sure sounds like you have nothing to back up what you claim. I also notice what you decided to ignore in my post.

Perhaps you should post over at the asylum, you'd fit in well with them.

I made my claim and posted the stats. You don't like the results so this is your response. I have posted tons of stats and facts. You are posting opinions with absolutely nothing to back up your claim and are just attacking the poster and not actually paying attention to the content.

Look at the stats and facts I have posted. Can you prove them wrong? I don't think so otherwise you wouldn't just attack me. Maybe if YOU posted some stats and facts to back up your claims I would take you more seriously.

 

[KingBran]

The problem is he's been poor in pressure situations at every level. Why would that change now? Maybe it could, but I'm not expecting it.

So what about the Blues scoring 2, 1, 1, 0 goals in their 4 losses the season Allen started the playoffs? Can you really blame Allen here by expecting a shutout to even have a chance at winning 3 of those games?

 

[pigpen65]

Now that is one hell of an agent. seems crazy high for him.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Now that is one hell of an agent. seems crazy high for him.

It's not...

 

[ChuckLefley]

I made my claim and posted the stats. You don't like the results so this is your response. I have posted tons of stats and facts. You are posting opinions with absolutely nothing to back up your claim and are just attacking the poster and not actually paying attention to the content.

Look at the stats and facts I have posted. Can you prove them wrong? I don't think so otherwise you wouldn't just attack me. Maybe if YOU posted some stats and facts to back up your claims I would take you more seriously.

Lets recap:
-You've made a claim, I asked you to post numbers that back it up and you refused.
It's not the first time you've refused in this thread.
-I've posted twice that wins are a team stat, but you claim they prove everything.
-You're response is to claim you've posted what's been asked for, ignore what I've said and go on the attack.

Yep, you are definitely an asylum poster.

If you want to have a discussion, step up, otherwise I'll just sit back and laugh.