Pre-Game Talk: Still Pre-Season ...

[ColePens]

The Capitals offseason continues to be one of my favorite unpleasant things to ever befall that franchise.

I'm on record saying infusing youth is the greatest thing that could happen to that team. They need their Rusts/Shearys/etc. to step up. Young guys infuse so much hunger into a lineup. Something the Caps severely missed. Players like Daniel Winnik suck. 4th liners like Archi are better because they at least gain momentum and bring on powerplays. Caps just have not had any of that. They have idiot Tom Wilson who does more damage than good.

And then I was advised by a few Caps fans that they don't have any of those guys in their prospect pool. And I became very happy.

 

[The Old Master]

No we couldn't. Wilson isn't better, giving Sheary for Haula would be a huge overpayment, Hags is around the same as Haula but more expensive.

that's why we could target a d-man too.

 

[Winger for Hire]

It would be really nice to see a consistent crack down on slashing and stick fouls, but I'm sure we'll get an October of semi strict stick calls then fairly loose coming up to Thanksgiving with Christmas time bringing pretty much the old way of everyone chopping wood. Then something later on about playoff hockey would be ruined by more whistles and powerplays, so another playoffs of maddening slogish play and skill being marginalized for the sake of old time hockey.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

I'm on record saying infusing youth is the greatest thing that could happen to that team. They need their Rusts/Shearys/etc. to step up. Young guys infuse so much hunger into a lineup. Something the Caps severely missed. Players like Daniel Winnik suck. 4th liners like Archi are better because they at least gain momentum and bring on powerplays. Caps just have not had any of that. They have idiot Tom Wilson who does more damage than good.

And then I was advised by a few Caps fans that they don't have any of those guys in their prospect pool. And I became very happy.

I completely agree that in general, these forced changes are what the Caps need, but obviously it has to be the right youth and at this point there is no indication that they have those guys. We never really know though until it happens because no one knew exactly what most of our young guys were either, but their collective success so quickly is definitely against the norm and required a lot of things coming together correctly so the odds are definitely that it doesn't work out nearly as well.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I'm on record saying infusing youth is the greatest thing that could happen to that team. They need their Rusts/Shearys/etc. to step up. Young guys infuse so much hunger into a lineup. Something the Caps severely missed. Players like Daniel Winnik suck. 4th liners like Archi are better because they at least gain momentum and bring on powerplays. Caps just have not had any of that. They have idiot Tom Wilson who does more damage than good.

And then I was advised by a few Caps fans that they don't have any of those guys in their prospect pool. And I became very happy.

Well, to be fair, we didn't think we had anything in guys like Rust, Sheary and Wilson before we gave them a shot. Guentzel, we knew. Sprong, we know/think we know, but Rust, Sheary and Wilson have been very pleasant surprises. That being said, I don't think the Caps are smart enough to put guys like that in a position to succeed. They are more likely to give more ice time to Tom Wilson (after all, the idiots protected him and Eller over Schmidt).

 

[PensandCaps]

I completely agree that in general, these forced changes are what the Caps need, but obviously it has to be the right youth and at this point there is no indication that they have those guys. We never really know though until it happens because no one knew exactly what most of our young guys were either, but their collective success so quickly is definitely against the norm and required a lot of things coming together correctly so the odds are definitely that it doesn't work out nearly as well.

They still have Orpik...poor caps. Trading Mojo for picks was a horrible move, losing two top four Dmen and not replacing them, Gonna have to hope Bowey and Djoos are not busts.

Their bottom six also reeks. I don't see them as a lock for the playoffs.

 

[Shady Machine]

Guys like Karlsson or Haula were not cheap to acquire in the summer. They'd already be here if they were and both may not have even been available.

EXACTLY which is what I said all summer while others were suggesting Haula for a 2nd+. I wish I could find the post, but I remember arguing that Haula was going to cost 1st+solid prospect and others laughed at me. Many posters were on the Haula train all summer and were suggesting that was the type of center JR was going for. Then reality set in and expectations lowered.

Let's see what JR does, but honestly, the "be patient and trust JR" crowd is funny to me, not because of the patience, but because of the changing expectations and then pretending they didn't change.

It went from Haula to W. Karlsson to Eakin to Sheahan and now apparently to Nic Dowd.

 

[Andy99]

JR's "patience" is not deliberate, such as waiting on certain players when he has other players to trade for. The media has been consistently reporting, including in DK's recent insider piece (I know it's DK), that there are absolutely no trade options right now. When AA signs and/or it's December and again nothing is happening, then you can have at him. JR cannot force teams to trade their players....

 

[XanderCrews34]

They still have Orpik...poor caps. Trading Mojo for picks was a horrible move, losing two top four Dmen and not replacing them, Gonna have to hope Bowey and Djoos are not busts.

Their bottom six also reeks. I don't see them as a lock for the playoffs.

Yep. Seems like it'll 100% depend on Holtby's play for them to be anything more than a borderline playoff team.

 

[canadianguy77]

The Capitals offseason continues to be one of my favorite unpleasant things to ever befall that franchise.

I know it's only the preseason, but the Devils made them look like a beer-league team the other night. It was pretty pathetic.

 

[The Old Master]

EXACTLY which is what I said all summer while others were suggesting Haula for a 2nd+. I wish I could find the post, but I remember arguing that Haula was going to cost 1st+solid prospect and others laughed at me. Many posters were on the Haula train all summer and were suggesting that was the type of center JR was going for. Then reality set in and expectations lowered.

Let's see what JR does, but honestly, the "be patient and trust JR" crowd is funny to me, not because of the patience, but because of the changing expectations and then pretending they didn't change.

It went from Haula to W. Karlsson to Eakin to Sheahan and now apparently to Nic Dowd.

34-26 pts a yr. sure doesn't sound like a 1st to me....more like Wilson and a low pick. and that would be a slight over pay.

 

[Shady Machine]

34-26 pts a yr. sure doesn't sound like a 1st to me....more like Wilson and a low pick. and that would be a slight over pay.

In a vacuum, sure, but Vegas has no incentive to trade Haula to us. They need good young players and Haula fits that mold. There are also plenty of teams looking for centers. I just don't see McPhee moving Haula for anything other than an overpayment.

 

[Peat]

EXACTLY which is what I said all summer while others were suggesting Haula for a 2nd+. I wish I could find the post, but I remember arguing that Haula was going to cost 1st+solid prospect and others laughed at me. Many posters were on the Haula train all summer and were suggesting that was the type of center JR was going for. Then reality set in and expectations lowered.

Let's see what JR does, but honestly, the "be patient and trust JR" crowd is funny to me, not because of the patience, but because of the changing expectations and then pretending they didn't change.

It went from Haula to W. Karlsson to Eakin to Sheahan and now apparently to Nic Dowd.

The question was asked a few weeks back - state what you'd actually be happy with - I think most people came back with an answer of "Play-off Bonino" as the minimum acceptable. A defensively responsible player who takes the hard minutes and chips in at the low end. I don't think any of those players falls below that and, tbh, I'm not sure any of those names fall notably above it either. Its not like we've gone from "Only Bozak/Henrique will do" to "Dowd is just fine".

Has turned out that people have (probably) been overestimating Vegas' willingness to trade though. Although I'm not sure I can blame people given how desperate for picks Vegas looked at the expansion draft. McPhee has acted a bit crazy if you ask me.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm on record saying infusing youth is the greatest thing that could happen to that team. They need their Rusts/Shearys/etc. to step up. Young guys infuse so much hunger into a lineup. Something the Caps severely missed. Players like Daniel Winnik suck. 4th liners like Archi are better because they at least gain momentum and bring on powerplays. Caps just have not had any of that. They have idiot Tom Wilson who does more damage than good.

And then I was advised by a few Caps fans that they don't have any of those guys in their prospect pool. And I became very happy.

I think the difference is the young guys the Caps need to step in have had disappointing seasons in the AHL, while the guys the Pens had step in, like Sheary, Rust, Guentzel, etc., were all having strong AHL seasons. A guy like Vrana, for instance, I believe was even a healthy scratch in the AHL last year because of issues with his effort.

I also laugh at the fact Brooks Orpik will once again be in their top four this season after the losses of Alzner, Shattenkirk, and Schmidt.

As for Winnik, I never saw the appeal. Teams keep adding the guy, but every single time I watch him I just see a vanilla player who does nothing other than "be solid defensively".

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

People don't actually regret not signing Bonino, do they?

I'd much, much rather risk a down year and reload than pay Nick Bonino a mint and still risk a likely down year and not be able to reload... because you just paid Nick Bonino a mint.

 

[Peat]

People don't actually regret not signing Bonino, do they?

I'd much, much rather risk a down year and reload than pay Nick Bonino a mint and still risk a likely down year and not be able to reload... because you just paid Nick Bonino a mint.

The extra 2m we'd give Bonino over our likely 3C could have been found elsewhere on the roster pretty easily and 4m for what he offers is steep but not outrageous. I'm still waiting to see how it turns out but I don't buy the idea that resigning Bonino is something rutherford should have never ever done.

JR's "patience" is not deliberate, such as waiting on certain players when he has other players to trade for. The media has been consistently reporting, including in DK's recent insider piece (I know it's DK), that there are absolutely no trade options right now. When AA signs and/or it's December and again nothing is happening, then you can have at him. JR cannot force teams to trade their players....

They have? Either I've the memory of a sieve, or nobody's been posting about it here, apart from you mentioning DK's insider piece when it came out.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

But that's an extra 2M over, what... 4 years? The AAV isn't the problem, really (though I think it's steep), it's the term.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

I'm on record saying infusing youth is the greatest thing that could happen to that team. They need their Rusts/Shearys/etc. to step up. Young guys infuse so much hunger into a lineup. Something the Caps severely missed. Players like Daniel Winnik suck. 4th liners like Archi are better because they at least gain momentum and bring on powerplays. Caps just have not had any of that. They have idiot Tom Wilson who does more damage than good.

And then I was advised by a few Caps fans that they don't have any of those guys in their prospect pool. And I became very happy.

I've never understood why any team would want Hershey as their AHL affiliate. Their management has never seemed to care (IMO) about developing players for their NHL squad. They've always been first and foremost about winning Calder Cups, even at the expense of developing talent.

 

[Andy99]

They have? Either I've the memory of a sieve, or nobody's been posting about it here, apart from you mentioning DK's insider piece when it came out.

Mackey suggests the same thing in his chats.....that it was Sheahan or bust, there was no other trade option out there despite JR saying he had three possible trades and that Sheahan can't happen without AA signing. Ergo, since AA hasn't signed, there are no options out there right now for the Pens. He's essentially saying the same thing

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

But that's an extra 2M over, what... 4 years? The AAV isn't the problem, really (though I think it's steep), it's the term.

Yeah, for me it's less the salary (though I still am not in favor of Bonino at over $4 million), but rather the term. If Bones would have accepted a 2-year deal, I'd be okay with it. I just don't think he's someone you commit 4 years to.

 

[Peat]

Not my reading but as I said, possibly memory like a sieve.

But that's an extra 2M over, what... 4 years? The AAV isn't the problem, really (though I think it's steep), it's the term.

The term is less than ideal, true. But I think you could have traded the contract away the moment you stopped liking it and I'd rather have problems down the line than now anyway.

Hopefully Rutherford wins his gamble and this is all meaningless words anyway.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

It's tough, this team is trying to go for a three-peat, something that literally has not been done since the 80's, over 30yrs ago. There is no way JR can seriously look at McKegg and Rowney and go "Well I like their gumption, they work hard..." it has nothing to do with their work ethic, they do work their asses off and McKegg would be a fine call-up if an injury occurs and Rowney would be a very serviceable 13th forward as a RW'er, but the Pens didn't trade for Reaves to rotate him in the line-up like a traditional goon, they don't see him as one at all, so I expect Reaves to take a regular shift and be a regular unless he plays horrendously and Rowney rotates in and does a better job.

In any case, if Dominic Moore (if even only him) is waived and for some magical reason, every team is like nah he's old, no thanks and he falls to the Pens, JR would be stupid not to add him, he instantly makes the 4th line much better, which would then give JR a bit of a break to find a 3C.

Moore has roughly averaged around 21-22pts in his last 4 seasons combined. Last year being 25pts. I think because of the hold on Bonino and Cullen (more so Cullen), JR might have missed the D.Moore train, but that can be corrected if JR plays this smart. Moore has a lot of gas left in the tank, maybe even more given the style and situation the Penguins are in, he has underrated offensive skills, I will never forget how he tortured the Pens in the Tampa series a few years back.

Leafs have 16 Forwards on their roster, if Moore is already the odd man out, if I am JR, I don't even risk the waivers option, I make a trade now. Send them a 4th round pick for Dominic Moore and be done with worrying about the 4C/3C spot. At least this way, even if Moore is the 3C for now, at least McKegg/Rowney are battling for the spot they should be fighting for only, 4C.

His cap hit is perfect (1m) and he's a solid faceoff guy that skates very well and could be good for 15-20pts in a 4C role, maybe 25~ in a 3C role if the AA/Sheahan thing is never sorted out.

Not going after Moore was probably the only thing I think JR got wrong this off season. He would have been the perfect insurance policy to have locked up while waiting for Cullen.

Appreciate the Cliff Notes version for the Pens, any chance I can get one for the rest of the league

Hopefully with Lil Winger now being able to amuse himself I can jump back into really digging into hockey season.

A few more recent Pens things. Pens signed 3 undrafted FA's to ELC's. 18 year old center Jordy Bellerive led us in scoring in the prospect tourney, from the bottom 6. Also 18 year old goalie Alex D'Orio and 20 year old winger Sam Miletic.

IMO, Pens may have found a gem in Adam Johnson. Needs to add some strength and shore up some weaknesses in WBS. Zach Aston-Reese was solid but unspectacular. Needs to adjust to the pace of the pro game. Lukas Bengtsson appears to have his POTS syndrome under control and looks extremely promising.

I'm on record saying infusing youth is the greatest thing that could happen to that team. They need their Rusts/Shearys/etc. to step up. Young guys infuse so much hunger into a lineup. Something the Caps severely missed. Players like Daniel Winnik suck. 4th liners like Archi are better because they at least gain momentum and bring on powerplays. Caps just have not had any of that. They have idiot Tom Wilson who does more damage than good.

And then I was advised by a few Caps fans that they don't have any of those guys in their prospect pool. And I became very happy.

Perfect.

 

[Shady Machine]

JR's "patience" is not deliberate, such as waiting on certain players when he has other players to trade for. The media has been consistently reporting, including in DK's recent insider piece (I know it's DK), that there are absolutely no trade options right now. When AA signs and/or it's December and again nothing is happening, then you can have at him. JR cannot force teams to trade their players....

I don't disagree, but

People don't actually regret not signing Bonino, do they?

I'd much, much rather risk a down year and reload than pay Nick Bonino a mint and still risk a likely down year and not be able to reload... because you just paid Nick Bonino a mint.

Sid and Geno aren't getting any younger. You do everything in your power to keep winning and without a NTC, Bonino is definitely movable at 4.1MM per. I'm not saying I regret not signing Bonino but I regret not finding anyway to replace him yet and think we may end up with a worse player there that will cost a fair amount of assets.

So knowing what I know now, yeah I'd rather have signed Bones.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I've never understood why any team would want Hershey as their AHL affiliate. Their management has never seemed to care (IMO) about developing players for their NHL squad. They've always been first and foremost about winning Calder Cups, even at the expense of developing talent.

Yeah. Definitely the danger of treating your farm team as a, like... minor league crown jewel. Great for the fans, true. Great for prestige within that league. But the focus is not on development for the parent club. And hence the position the Capitals find themselves in, now... without much in the way of young, cheap, NHL-ready talent.

 

[Speaking Moistly]