Prospect Info: STI 2021 Draft Rankings 2.0 for May -- Top 64

[StevenToddIves]

Yup I would have no issues picking Rosen at #10 or #11 but I have a feeling other teams are gunna have the "undersized" bias again (among other factors too). But hey, maybe I'll be surprised.

Here's your "why Isak Rosen at #20 or #21 would be a steal" clip of the week:

 

[aboriginal]

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Here's your "why Isak Rosen at #20 or #21 would be a steal" clip of the week:

I don't think I've seen any Rosen haters here but definitely show that to them if there happens to be one.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I don't think I've seen any Rosen haters here but definitely show that to them if there happens to be one.

People will hate on anyone for some reason. I'm waiting to hear the "he's too small" chorus from people who have never watched him and don't know anything about his fearlessness and sky-high compete level.

My nightmare scenario involves getting that big D with the first pick and then having to decide between Othmann and Rosen with the Islanders pick. I mean, it would be a win-win but I just really want them both, haha.

 

[TBF1972]

People will hate on anyone for some reason. I'm waiting to hear the "he's too small" chorus from people who have never watched him and don't know anything about his fearlessness and sky-high compete level.

My nightmare scenario involves getting that big D with the first pick and then having to decide between Othmann and Rosen with the Islanders pick. I mean, it would be a win-win but I just really want them both, haha.

you sound like my son, when he was 6 year old.

 

[StevenToddIves]

you sound like my son, when he was 6 year old.

My life choices are mostly reminiscent of 6 year olds, as well.

 

[TBF1972]

My life choices are mostly reminiscent of 6 year olds, as well.

that's how you get those regular visits from the lady living below you.

 

[Nubmer6]

My life choices are mostly reminiscent of 6 year olds, as well.

Your mom still dresses you?

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

An Anecdotal Case Analysis of Brandt Clarke's Skating Deficiencies

My suspicion on Clarke's skating appear to be valid. Quite in depth analysis into his deficiency.

 

[My3Sons]

An Anecdotal Case Analysis of Brandt Clarke's Skating Deficiencies

My suspicion on Clarke's skating appear to be valid. Quite in depth analysis into his deficiency.

that was really sophisticated and gave great insights into the technical aspects of skating. Thanks for sharing that. It was a great read.

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

People will hate on anyone for some reason. I'm waiting to hear the "he's too small" chorus from people who have never watched him and don't know anything about his fearlessness and sky-high compete level.

My nightmare scenario involves getting that big D with the first pick and then having to decide between Othmann and Rosen with the Islanders pick. I mean, it would be a win-win but I just really want them both, haha.

That’s where I’m at. I like Othmann a lot but Rosen is growing on me. If it’s D, I’m still leaning Ham & Salami over Lambos.

 

[StevenToddIves]

An Anecdotal Case Analysis of Brandt Clarke's Skating Deficiencies

My suspicion on Clarke's skating appear to be valid. Quite in depth analysis into his deficiency.

It was certainly an interesting article, but in the end I found it to be a guy who makes his living off stressing certain hockey mechanics emphasizing the importance of what he does for a living.

This is totally natural. I get worked up myself when people want to trade away all a team's draft picks for so-so NHLers, saying "the draft is just a crap shoot, anyway". You always want to feel what you are doing is, in some way, crucial.

He raised a couple of intriguing points about how Clarke's "knock-kneed" style lowers his ability to create deception with his upper body. But -- just as smaller players adapt to not being able to outmuscle bigger, stronger defensemen -- it was not mentioned how Clarke has a rare set of hands which, combined with advanced hockey IQ, makes him far and away the most deceptive (with the puck) defenseman in the 2021 draft class.

I think we all become dinosaurs when we oversell a particular ability and rule out players who do not have said ability. Anaheim has -- for years -- built a team with the philosophy that the most important quality for an NHL team (especially the blueline) is size, and how has that worked out for them? I believe they were the NHL's biggest team for the last two years, and a lottery team for both of them. But they have an older front office, and just 15 years ago the NHL was a league where every team was stressing size as perhaps the most important quality in building a winner.

We can literally take the 2005 draft (15 years ago) and dust off our Hockey News Draft Guide and read profile after profile about first round picks being "big and strong" or "huge and physical" and then we look at the litany of first round busts -- Peter Mueller, Ty Wishart, Mark Mitera, David Fischer, Denis Persson, Bobby Sanguinetti, Ivan Vishnevskiy, Matt Corrente -- and every single one of them was either 6'2 or 200 pounds or both when they were drafted except for Sanguinetti, who was listed at 6'1-180.

Later round picks in the 2005 draft included guys who simply dropped because they were "too small": Brad Marchand, Cal Clutterbuck (just 5'11!) and Matthieu Perreault.

Now it's just 15 years later, and we're talking about players with elite skills across the board and good-but-not-great skating as "too slow" to draft. Don't be mistaken -- we would all love to ice a team with all highly skilled 6'2 kids who are great at hockey and can fly, but it's just not possible. The problem is when a team passes up on the highly skilled kids who are great at hockey in favor of 6'2 kids who can fly.

Brandt Clarke's most common D partner in the 2021 U-18 tournament was Ethan Del Mastro -- a huge kid at 6'4 who can fly. If this were 2005, Del Mastro would be a lock for the first round. But watching the tournament -- and Del Mastro mostly played well -- there is no question in any universe that Clarke is a far, far superior hockey player.

The fact we need to be repeating over and over again with Brandt Clarke is that -- with the puck on his stick -- there is no defenseman in the 2021 draft who is even close to as good as him. Without the puck on his stick? Clarke still needs work. Without elite skating, will he ever be as good as Cale Makar? I don't believe so. But one of the players who this article compared him unfavorably to was Miro Heiskanen -- a tremendous skater. Though Clarke will never be as lights-out defensively as Heiskanen, he should be able to surpass Heiskanen's offensive output with his eyes closed. The skating won't hurt him there.

Ultimately, with Clarke we need to account for the fact that he is a good but not great skater who is good but not great defensively. But we need to also account for the fact that he has four elite or near elite skills in hands, passing/vision, hockey IQ and shooting. And although defensemen win Norris Trophies all the time without elite skating (in the last dozen years Giordano, Burns, Lidstrom and Chara have accounted for nearly half of these awards), they never win without high-end hockey IQ and passing -- so these could certainly be considered more important abilities for the modern NHL defenseman.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

That’s where I’m at. I like Othmann a lot but Rosen is growing on me. If it’s D, I’m still leaning Ham & Salami over Lambos.

Ceulemans is my favourite d if he’s there at the Isles pick.
I really like Rosen. Has potential to a huge steal in that range. Those two are my favourites for that pick.
After that I’m not that high on Othmann. He is a solid prospect but I don’t think he has enough speed or skill to be picked that high. Seems more like an early second rounder who could slide into the end of the 1st round to me.

There’s some other good wingers who I think have more potential and I’d rather take somebody with a higher ceiling.
Oscar Olausson is one of the guys I’m interested in who has a good chance of being available. Big Swedish winger (6’2”) who has good speed and skill and a really good shot. He’s a late 2002 who’s biggest issue has been consistency and maybe his compete to an extent. He also hasn’t produced a whole lot internationally the last 2 years. U18’s last year and world juniors this year(didn’t play much). But IMO he has a top 15 skillset in this draft maybe even higher and could be a really good fit alongside our centers if he turns out.

There’s some other guys I like too and I’m still trying to watch as much as I can of the players in our range. I’d be okay with Othmann I just think there’s some guys with more potential who will be available.

 

[StevenToddIves]

That’s where I’m at. I like Othmann a lot but Rosen is growing on me. If it’s D, I’m still leaning Ham & Salami over Lambos.

"Ham & Salami", haha.

With Othmann and Rosen you're choosing based on "type of player" rather than a simple "who is better?" Rosen is a potential gamebreaking offensive player who also gives you a high-compete, all-around game. Though Lysell had the two best games for Team Sweden, Rosen had the best overall tournament for the team. Othmann is really a power forward who is sneaky cerebral and a true sniper. His crushing body-check which absolutely flattened 6'5 Simon Edvinsson in the gold medal U-18 game just dropped my jaw to the ground, and then his bad-angle snipe which put Canada firmly in control was just wicked.

I think both of these players are only possibilities for the Devils due to the pandemic, strangely enough. If this were any other season, Rosen would be dominating the Swedish J20 and Othmann tearing up the OHL. But Rosen was forced to the Swedish men's league despite being very physically (not mentally, mind you) immature at 5'11-maybe 150 and barely played. Othmann was forced to a pro league in Switzerland and never really got going or received top line minutes.

Ultimately, I feel Othmann's ceiling involves more goals and big hits, but Rosen's ceiling will have him see greater overall scoring totals while still being a ferocious 200-foot player. Both kids should be staples on both the PP and PK. Like I said, it's "choose your future great player" and ultimately a win-win when deciding between these two bright young talents.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Ceulemans is my favourite d if he’s there at the Isles pick.
I really like Rosen. Has potential to a huge steal in that range. Those two are my favourites for that pick.
After that I’m not that high on Othmann. He is a solid prospect but I don’t think he has enough speed or skill to be picked that high. Seems more like an early second rounder who could slide into the end of the 1st round to me.

There’s some other good wingers who I think have more potential and I’d rather take somebody with a higher ceiling.
Oscar Olausson is one of the guys I’m interested in who has a good chance of being available. Big Swedish winger (6’2”) who has good speed and skill and a really good shot. He’s a late 2002 who’s biggest issue has been consistency and maybe his compete to an extent. He also hasn’t produced a whole lot internationally the last 2 years. U18’s last year and world juniors this year(didn’t play much). But IMO he has a top 15 skillset in this draft maybe even higher and could be a really good fit alongside our centers if he turns out.

There’s some other guys I like too and I’m still trying to watch as much as I can of the players in our range. I’d be okay with Othmann I just think there’s some guys with more potential who will be available.

I really like Olausson, but I don't think he's a first round pick, at least not until the final pick or two in the round. He is certainly not in the same tier as Othmann, who can do everything that Olausson can do except skate as fast in a straight line, while Othmann adds physicality, passing ability, hands, 200-foot play, compete level and hockey IQ which Olausson does not even register on the same scale on.

My comparison for Olausson is more commonly Simon Robertsson, another sniping, left-shot winger with size. At the beginning of the year, Olausson was more on my radar because he was, quite simply, more hyped. But over the course of the year, Robertsson blew by him for me -- he's a superior 200-foot guy with a more consistent compete and a far better shot. Again, Olausson has a clear advantage in terms of skating, but skating has become a bit overrated by several draft analysts in recent years. It would be one thing to use the skating to rank Olausson over Robertsson if they were both line-driving centers, but they are both finishing left wings. Neither is their team's main weapon in transition, and most of their scoring is done shooting or passing off from a set position in the offensive zone.

Ultimately, Othmann is a player who is very good at all aspects of the game and can snipe. Robertsson is a player who is good at all aspects of the game and can snipe. Olausson is a much faster player who is so-so at all aspects of the game and can snipe. Though I'm sure there are those in the draft community who would read this paragraph and say it means Olausson is the best player of the three, but I'm going to say I'm in the opposite school.

 

[FooteBahl]

"Ham & Salami", haha.

With Othmann and Rosen you're choosing based on "type of player" rather than a simple "who is better?" Rosen is a potential gamebreaking offensive player who also gives you a high-compete, all-around game. Though Lysell had the two best games for Team Sweden, Rosen had the best overall tournament for the team. Othmann is really a power forward who is sneaky cerebral and a true sniper. His crushing body-check which absolutely flattened 6'5 Simon Edvinsson in the gold medal U-18 game just dropped my jaw to the ground, and then his bad-angle snipe which put Canada firmly in control was just wicked.

I think both of these players are only possibilities for the Devils due to the pandemic, strangely enough. If this were any other season, Rosen would be dominating the Swedish J20 and Othmann tearing up the OHL. But Rosen was forced to the Swedish men's league despite being very physically (not mentally, mind you) immature at 5'11-maybe 150 and barely played. Othmann was forced to a pro league in Switzerland and never really got going or received top line minutes.

Ultimately, I feel Othmann's ceiling involves more goals and big hits, but Rosen's ceiling will have him see greater overall scoring totals while still being a ferocious 200-foot player. Both kids should be staples on both the PP and PK. Like I said, it's "choose your future great player" and ultimately a win-win when deciding between these two bright young talents.

How do you feel about the rankings on mynhldraft.com? They have us taking Luke at 4, L’Heureux at 21....and the Rangers taking Othmann at 16

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I really like Olausson, but I don't think he's a first round pick, at least not until the final pick or two in the round. He is certainly not in the same tier as Othmann, who can do everything that Olausson can do except skate as fast in a straight line, while Othmann adds physicality, passing ability, hands, 200-foot play, compete level and hockey IQ which Olausson does not even register on the same scale on.

My comparison for Olausson is more commonly Simon Robertsson, another sniping, left-shot winger with size. At the beginning of the year, Olausson was more on my radar because he was, quite simply, more hyped. But over the course of the year, Robertsson blew by him for me -- he's a superior 200-foot guy with a more consistent compete and a far better shot. Again, Olausson has a clear advantage in terms of skating, but skating has become a bit overrated by several draft analysts in recent years. It would be one thing to use the skating to rank Olausson over Robertsson if they were both line-driving centers, but they are both finishing left wings. Neither is their team's main weapon in transition, and most of their scoring is done shooting or passing off from a set position in the offensive zone.

Ultimately, Othmann is a player who is very good at all aspects of the game and can snipe. Robertsson is a player who is good at all aspects of the game and can snipe. Olausson is a much faster player who is so-so at all aspects of the game and can snipe. Though I'm sure there are those in the draft community who would read this paragraph and say it means Olausson is the best player of the three, but I'm going to say I'm in the opposite school.

I don’t agree with you on some parts of the Othmann-Olausson comparison. Olausson is faster and a better overall skater(better edges too). He also has very good hands that are at a similar level to if not even slightly better than Othmann’s.

Othmann hasn’t shown great hockey IQ to me, he’s not a dumb player but I don’t see a really smart player in him nor has he shown any great passing ability. Olausson hasn’t shown great IQ or passing ability either but he’s not a dumb player and he makes some smart plays. He just doesn’t seem to get very involved in the game at times.

Their shots are probably on a similar level but I think Olausson has a harder shot that is more likely to to beat a goalie striaght up from a decent distance while Othmann is better at finishing and scoring in tight. I do agree that Othmann brings more compete, a better 200ft game, and more physicality despite being smaller than Olausson.

IMO Othmann should go where you think Olausson should go. I think Othmann is a safer pick in that I think it’s very unlikely he’s not a decent 3rd liner at worst but I think Olausson is more likely to be a good top 6 forward and has a higher ceiling.

 

[Eggtimer]

Wh

That’s where I’m at. I like Othmann a lot but Rosen is growing on me. If it’s D, I’m still leaning Ham & Salami over Lambos.

What about Ceulemans ? Im not advocating for him I am just curious how he stacks up compared to the other two and what is seen to make those two better choices ? ( regarding the two D)
If the Islanders make it to the third round and the Islanders pick keeps sliding to the first round , I’d be more than happy going with Cossa IF ALL these guys are gone :
Lambos
Ceuleman
Ham and Salami
Othmann
Pinelli
L’Frenchie (Hureaux or whatever his name is )
Robertson
Olausson
Svozil
Svechkov
Rosen

That’s a lot to be gone by then and I highly doubt they are ALL gone , but without a high second round pick I’d like to take Cossa somehow but by passing on what could be a very good playerwould suck to pass on for a goalie. If it looks like high risk or prospect that don’t have top 6 floor for talent , I go with the stud goalie.

 

[StevenToddIves]

How do you feel about the rankings on mynhldraft.com? They have us taking Luke at 4, L’Heureux at 21....and the Rangers taking Othmann at 16

It sounds possible for us, but I can't see any universe when the Rangers -- with Panarin, Lafreniere and Kreider -- use their #16 pick on a LW.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I don’t agree with you on some parts of the Othmann-Olausson comparison. Olausson is faster and a better overall skater(better edges too). He also has very good hands that are at a similar level to if not even slightly better than Othmann’s.

Othmann hasn’t shown great hockey IQ to me, he’s not a dumb player but I don’t see a really smart player in him nor has he shown any great passing ability. Olausson hasn’t shown great IQ or passing ability either but he’s not a dumb player and he makes some smart plays. He just doesn’t seem to get very involved in the game at times.

Their shots are probably on a similar level but I think Olausson has a harder shot that is more likely to to beat a goalie striaght up from a decent distance while Othmann is better at finishing and scoring in tight. I do agree that Othmann brings more compete, a better 200ft game, and more physicality despite being smaller than Olausson.

IMO Othmann should go where you think Olausson should go. I think Othmann is a safer pick in that I think it’s very unlikely he’s not a decent 3rd liner at worst but I think Olausson is more likely to be a good top 6 forward and has a higher ceiling.

Fair enough, and I respect your opinion, but I really don't think it's even a comparison at this point. I currently have Othmann at #16 and Olausson at #40. In the biggest game of his life -- the U-18 gold medal game -- Othmann was one of the best players on the ice (and certainly the best among draft eligibles, as Bedard and Wright are ridiculous).

Othmann took over the game in the second period. He flashed an elite-level snipe from a bad angle for a goal, displayed his high-end puckhandling beating a defender wide and almost scoring on the next shift with a ridiculous between-the-legs move, won every board battle and laced every pass, and put the cherry on top by absolutely flattening 6'5 Simon Edvinsson with a legal and brutal check deep in Sweden's zone. Olausson is a solid guy you're drafting for your middle six who adds size, speed and shooting, but he's just not capable of this type of all-around dominance. He's a solid bet for the late first round because people love size and speed and he's got both in spades, but he's purely a complimentary player. He just doesn't have the compete level or "take the game by the throat and make it yours" mentality which Othmann showed in the biggest game of his life.

The reason I use Robertsson as a better comparable for Olausson is that I feel they are both big, sniping wingers. I would give Robertsson the edge in all around game and shooting, while Olausson is a superior skater. Thus, I rank Robertsson higher.

Ultimately, were this a debate between us, you would win it. Olausson has been ranked as high as #12 (Smart Scouting) and might have a slightly higher consensus ranking. The highest I've seen Othmann is my own ranking (#16), though FC Hockey has him at #17. Conversely, Olausson's low ranking is #48 (also FC Hockey) while Othmann's is #32 (McKeen's). In the TSN/McKenzie rankings -- generally considered to be the most accurate -- Othmann is #25 and Olausson #26, with Robertsson right behind the pair at #28. However, I do think the recent U-18 tournament moves Othmann up a bit in most final rankings -- he was very, very good.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Wh

What about Ceulemans ? Im not advocating for him I am just curious how he stacks up compared to the other two and what is seen to make those two better choices ? ( regarding the two D)
If the Islanders make it to the third round and the Islanders pick keeps sliding to the first round , I’d be more than happy going with Cossa IF ALL these guys are gone :
Lambos
Ceuleman
Ham and Salami
Othmann
Pinelli
L’Frenchie (Hureaux or whatever his name is )
Robertson
Olausson
Svozil
Svechkov
Rosen

That’s a lot to be gone by then and I highly doubt they are ALL gone , but without a high second round pick I’d like to take Cossa somehow but by passing on what could be a very good playerwould suck to pass on for a goalie. If it looks like high risk or prospect that don’t have top 6 floor for talent , I go with the stud goalie.

If your entire Dead-Sea-Scroll-of-a-list is gone by #20 or #21, the HF Boards Devils draft regulars will take you out to a steak dinner.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Wh

What about Ceulemans ? Im not advocating for him I am just curious how he stacks up compared to the other two and what is seen to make those two better choices ? ( regarding the two D)
If the Islanders make it to the third round and the Islanders pick keeps sliding to the first round , I’d be more than happy going with Cossa IF ALL these guys are gone :
Lambos
Ceuleman
Ham and Salami
Othmann
Pinelli
L’Frenchie (Hureaux or whatever his name is )
Robertson
Olausson
Svozil
Svechkov
Rosen

That’s a lot to be gone by then and I highly doubt they are ALL gone , but without a high second round pick I’d like to take Cossa somehow but by passing on what could be a very good playerwould suck to pass on for a goalie. If it looks like high risk or prospect that don’t have top 6 floor for talent , I go with the stud goalie.

This is "Post of the Year" material, right here.

"If these 22 players are all taken by the #21 pick, I feel the Devils should take..."

Don't change, @Eggtimer

 

[Eggtimer]

This is "Post of the Year" material, right here.

"If these 22 players are all taken by the #21 pick, I feel the Devils should take..."

Don't change, @Eggtimer

I should think before I post maybe lol.
I guess I should have just said that I hope through some miracle we get another late first so we can take a Ceuleman or Lambos PLUS Cossa without having any draft regret . So many players I want and will hate that we can’t take the pick of the litter.
My list of players to take ahead of Cossa started off ok but as I thought about it I kept adding more and more until I had a ridiculous list and was like hmmmmm ya I don’t know what the F anymore.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I should think before I post maybe lol.
I guess I should have just said that I hope through some miracle we get another late first so we can take a Ceuleman or Lambos PLUS Cossa without having any draft regret . So many players I want and will hate that we can’t take the pick of the litter.
My list of players to take ahead of Cossa started off ok but as I thought about it I kept adding more and more until I had a ridiculous list and was like hmmmmm ya I don’t know what the F anymore.

Haha, I laughed out loud. Don't sweat it -- I've said far more ridiculous things on these threads. We love ya, keep being you.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Fair enough, and I respect your opinion, but I really don't think it's even a comparison at this point. I currently have Othmann at #16 and Olausson at #40. In the biggest game of his life -- the U-18 gold medal game -- Othmann was one of the best players on the ice (and certainly the best among draft eligibles, as Bedard and Wright are ridiculous).

Othmann took over the game in the second period. He flashed an elite-level snipe from a bad angle for a goal, displayed his high-end puckhandling beating a defender wide and almost scoring on the next shift with a ridiculous between-the-legs move, won every board battle and laced every pass, and put the cherry on top by absolutely flattening 6'5 Simon Edvinsson with a legal and brutal check deep in Sweden's zone. Olausson is a solid guy you're drafting for your middle six who adds size, speed and shooting, but he's just not capable of this type of all-around dominance. He's a solid bet for the late first round because people love size and speed and he's got both in spades, but he's purely a complimentary player. He just doesn't have the compete level or "take the game by the throat and make it yours" mentality which Othmann showed in the biggest game of his life.

The reason I use Robertsson as a better comparable for Olausson is that I feel they are both big, sniping wingers. I would give Robertsson the edge in all around game and shooting, while Olausson is a superior skater. Thus, I rank Robertsson higher.

Ultimately, were this a debate between us, you would win it. Olausson has been ranked as high as #12 (Smart Scouting) and might have a slightly higher consensus ranking. The highest I've seen Othmann is my own ranking (#16), though FC Hockey has him at #17. Conversely, Olausson's low ranking is #48 (also FC Hockey) while Othmann's is #32 (McKeen's). In the TSN/McKenzie rankings -- generally considered to be the most accurate -- Othmann is #25 and Olausson #26, with Robertsson right behind the pair at #28. However, I do think the recent U-18 tournament moves Othmann up a bit in most final rankings -- he was very, very good.

I think saying Othmann took over the game is quite a bit of an exaggeration and he wasn’t very, very good throughout the tournament IMO. He certainly wasn’t bad and he had some really nice plays but when he’s playing with a guy like Wright who creates lots of space for his line mates and gets him the puck a ton I would hope he’s able to create more offense and show more skill on a consistent basis. Basically I don’t think he had a consistent enough offensive impact on the game for how dominant Canada was at a lot of times and considering who he was playing with and I don’t see his offensive potential as being that high. He’s a 3rd liner with some top 6 potential in my mind.

Othmann is more of a complimentary type player than Olausson too IMO but we clearly just have very different views of the 2 players.