Speculation: Steve simmons: If the leafs sign Tavares, could they trade Nylander?

[Martin Skoula]

Do you or don’t you think Weber’s contract is the 2nd worse in the NHL? I strongly believe this is propaganda and yes, this is my opinion.

Weber’s 30+ stats are on par or better than his career averages. He’s the same age as Burns and has a very similar AAV. If you are worried about Weber’s contract, you should be even more worried about Burns. He is more likely to play at age 38 and 39 vs Weber at age 38, 39, 40 where his actual salary is only $1M

We don't want Burns either if that helps you.

 

[Habs Halifax]

We don't want Burns either if that helps you.

You are avoiding the question.

 

[Morning Dart]

Do you or don’t you think Weber’s contract is the 2nd worse in the NHL? I strongly believe this is propaganda and yes, this is my opinion.

Weber’s 30+ stats are on par or better than his career averages. He’s the same age as Burns and has a very similar AAV. If you are worried about Weber’s contract, you should be even more worried about Burns. He is more likely to play at age 38 and 39 vs Weber at age 38, 39, 40 where his actual salary is only $1M

That’s a nice strawman you’re building there.

Whether or not I personally believe Weber’s contract is the 2nd worst in the NHL is irrelevant. The only point I made was that believing that it was is hardly an indefensible position, given that Weber’s contract is pretty much objectively awful. High cap hit, long-term for a guy who just suffered a major injury that could affect his already mediocre footspeed. I’ve literally given you the argument that could be used to make the claim. It’s an awful contract. It was a poison pill when Philly offered it in a Holmgren-esque effort to put his core over the top. Poile matched out of necessity and that managed to find a GM stupid enough to bail him out. That doesn’t make the contract good.

For reference, no, I do not personally believe it’s the 2nd worst contract in the league, mainly because Shea still appears capable of playing hockey, unlike, say, Nathan Horton. That doesn’t mean someone who believes that it is is engaging in the willful spread of misinformation (which is what propaganda actually is) but is rather contributing their opinion. You might think their opinion is bad. That’s cool, I think your opinion is bad. That doesn’t make it a thing it’s not just because you say so.

As for the second part of your post, you’re simply repeating something I already agreed with. I would not trade Nylander for Burns, as I would not trade Nylander for Weber.

Take the loss and move on my friend.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That’s a nice strawman you’re building there.

Whether or not I personally believe Weber’s contract is the 2nd worst in the NHL is irrelevant. The only point I made was that believing that it was is hardly an indefensible position, given that Weber’s contract is pretty much objectively awful. High cap hit, long-term for a guy who just suffered a major injury that could affect his already mediocre footspeed. I’ve literally given you the argument that could be used to make the claim. It’s an awful contract. It was a poison pill when Philly offered it in a Holmgren-esque effort to put his core over the top. Poile matched out of necessity and that managed to find a GM stupid enough to bail him out. That doesn’t make the contract good.

For reference, no, I do not personally believe it’s the 2nd worst contract in the league, mainly because Shea still appears capable of playing hockey, unlike, say, Nathan Horton. That doesn’t mean someone who believes that it is is engaging in the willful spread of misinformation (which is what propaganda actually is) but is rather contributing their opinion. You might think their opinion is bad. That’s cool, I think your opinion is bad. That doesn’t make it a thing it’s not just because you say so.

As for the second part of your post, you’re simply repeating something I already agreed with. I would not trade Nylander for Burns, as I would not trade Nylander for Weber.

Take the loss and move on my friend.

It is relevant cause that’s how this all started. You can hold me on something I said or didn’t say. Your choice. But you should get your facts straight about what I actually said vs what others are twisting what they want me to say.

Calling Weber’s contract the 2nd worse in the NHL is propaganda. You either believe it or you don’t. If you don’t believe it, you are on my side. But you are probably scared to go against the post twisters and barrage of attacks.

I stand firm on my opinion. Not afraid of the propaganda band wagon.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Why the HELL would the leafs trade Nylander to the Habs? The Habs, rather find a different option over Weber. I dont care if hes the best player in the world. Theres nothing Montreal could add to make me feel good about seeing Nylander as a hab.

 

[Martin Skoula]

It is relevant cause that’s how this all started. You can hold me on something I said or didn’t say. Your choice. But you should get your facts straight about what I actually said vs what others are twisting what they want me to say.

Calling Weber’s contract the 2nd worse in the NHL is propaganda. You either believe it or you don’t.

Calling an opinion about a sport "propaganda" is so misguided I don't even know where to start with it. I really hope you never have to live in a country with real propaganda as some people on this forum actually have, I have a feeling you'd forget about petty things like which millionaire is getting paid too much playing a game very quickly.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Calling an opinion about a sport "propaganda" is so misguided I don't even know where to start with it. I really hope you never have to live in a country with real propaganda as some people on this forum actually have, I have a feeling you'd forget about petty things like which millionaire is getting paid too much playing a game very quickly.

It is my opinion that’s it’s propaganda and I backed it up. You don’t have to agree but I am entitled to my opinion

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why the HELL would the leafs trade Nylander to the Habs? The Habs, rather find a different option over Weber. I dont care if hes the best player in the world. Theres nothing Montreal could add to make me feel good about seeing Nylander as a hab.

Who is pushing the Weber for Nylander deal?

My comments were exploded.. I was against the propaganda comment towards Weber and I simply asked if not Weber, Who? Then people flipped out. It was a honest question and I was curious to see what are the other options. I brought up Hanifin but he shoots left. I believe the Leafs are looking for a RD

 

[Tavares to Marner]

Any habs fan that thinks Weber is worth Nylander is dreaming

You'd be lucky to get kapanen++ from us for him

Weber is slow and old, has maybe 2 more years left in him

Nylander has got at least 12 years in him

 

[Starat327]

Why is this still even happening?

 

[Yamazaki]

Why is this still even happening?

Whenever a leafs player is mentioned on hfboards all the petty leaf haters come out from their step mothers basements.

 

[Dash86]

Who is pushing the Weber for Nylander deal?

My comments were exploded.. I was against the propaganda comment towards Weber and I simply asked if not Weber, Who? Then people flipped out. It was a honest question and I was curious to see what are the other options. I brought up Hanifin but he shoots left. I believe the Leafs are looking for a RD

Many people have already given a few possible options. It’s pretty obvious to me that Leafs fans would rather the team go after someone like Tanev, or trying to work something with Nashville for either Ekholm or Ellis. You are right in saying that Weber doesn’t have the 2nd worst contract in the league. However his contract is still terrible and is definitely on the list for worst ones in the league. As for your comparison of Burns and Weber and how they are similar age with similar contracts. I wouldn’t want Burns now either if it cost Nylander. His age doesn’t fit with the core. I will say though that Burns currently is a far better then Weber currently. I see Weber’s play dropping drastically before Burns does. I’ll finish by saying that you really seem stuck on the idea that the Leafs need to land a huge name number 1 RD. Most of us don’t see the need for that and believe that if you have a solid 6 you can still compete for the cup. Look at the four teams currently in the semi finals. Out of those four teams I would say the only true top level elite dman is Hedman. Now that’s not to say there isn’t some very solid defense man on the other teams because there most certainly is. However none are top 10 defenders in the league IMO.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Many people have already given a few possible options. It’s pretty obvious to me that Leafs fans would rather the team go after someone like Tanev, or trying to work something with Nashville for either Ekholm or Ellis. You are right in saying that Weber doesn’t have the 2nd worst contract in the league. However his contract is still terrible and is definitely on the list for worst ones in the league. As for your comparison of Burns and Weber and how they are similar age with similar contracts. I wouldn’t want Burns now either if it cost Nylander. His age doesn’t fit with the core. I will say though that Burns currently is a far better then Weber currently. I see Weber’s play dropping drastically before Burns does. I’ll finish by saying that you really seem stuck on the idea that the Leafs need to land a huge name number 1 RD. Most of us don’t see the need for that and believe that if you have a solid 6 you can still compete for the cup. Look at the four teams currently in the semi finals. Out of those four teams I would say the only true top level elite dman is Hedman. Now that’s not to say there isn’t some very solid defense man on the other teams because there most certainly is. However none are top 10 defenders in the league IMO.

Why do you see Weber’s play dropping significantly and Burns does not? What are your reasons? Neither player is showing signs of decline.

I guess there are no home run deals for Nylander. I’ve seen the names of the players people mentioned. More like depth moves and not a move that turn the Leafs into contenders

 

[Dash86]

Why do you see Weber’s play dropping significantly and Burns does not? What are your reasons? Neither player is showing signs of decline.

I guess there are no home run deals for Nylander. I’ve seen the names of the players people mentioned. More like depth moves and not a move that turn the Leafs into contenders

Why do I think Weber will decline faster then Burns? Burns just won the Norris trophy last season. Something Weber has never done. Burns has averaged about 70 pats over his last four seasons. Burns is also a much better skater then Weber is and Weber is likely to get slower again after his injury. I’m sure if you polled people on this board on who they thought would decline faster and harder between Burns and Weber the overwhelming response would be Weber. Burns just seems like the type of player who’s going to be solid into his late 30’s early 40’s like Chara is. Weber seems like a player who’s best days will soon be behind him.

 

[Starat327]

In case anyone else needs clarification for the obvious - water is wet and the sun is hot.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why do I think Weber will decline faster then Burns? Burns just won the Norris trophy last season. Something Weber has never done. Burns has averaged about 70 pats over his last four seasons. Burns is also a much better skater then Weber is and Weber is likely to get slower again after his injury. I’m sure if you polled people on this board on who they thought would decline faster and harder between Burns and Weber the overwhelming response would be Weber. Burns just seems like the type of player who’s going to be solid into his late 30’s early 40’s like Chara is. Weber seems like a player who’s best days will soon be behind him.

Weber is elite at scoring goals from the back end. Even at at age 30+, he has averaged 19 goals a season.

Burns is in my top 5 best defenseman.

Neither are reasons why they will decline rapidly IMO. Weber’s game was never built on speed.

We disagree

 

[Dash86]

Also why do you so strongly believe that the Leafs need to make a huge move for a top RD? You honestly think that if they add a couple of solid defenders but not rite ones that they don’t have a chance? Keep in mind that this whole thread is based on the premise that the Leafs sign Tavares which would give them an absolute elite forward group that every team would struggle to match up against. When Pittsburgh won their cup who was their elite defender? If any of the teams remaining outside of Tampa wins then who is their elite defender? Contrary to what you believe you can win a cup without having a top 5-20 defenseman on your team.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

Weber is elite at scoring goals from the back end. Even at at age 30+, he has averaged 19 goals a season.

Burns is in my top 5 best defenseman.

Neither are reasons why they will decline rapidly IMO. Weber’s game was never built on speed.

We disagree

Brent Burns has easily been the better defenceman since they turned 30. Before that, Weber was better for the majority of the previous decade. Now, they've both been paid for what they did in the past. Montreal is on the hook for $7.8M for what Weber will be between ages 33 and 41.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Brent Burns has easily been the better defenceman since they turned 30. Before that, Weber was better for the majority of the previous decade. Now, they've both been paid for what they did in the past. Montreal is on the hook for $7.8M for what Weber will be between ages 33 and 41.

Broken record...

- Burns > Weber. I have Burns in the top 5 defenseman and Weber as a fringe top 10 defenseman and 10-20 range worse case. It's a solid comparable. Weber is better at scoring goals and Burns is the better point producer.

- Weber signed till 40 (not 41). Count on your fingers, it will help you with your incorrect math. 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40.

- Weber has a very high probability of not playing the $1M contract years (age 38, 39, 40). His actual salary is $6M for the next 4 years and then it drops to $3M at age 37.

- Pretty much the same AAV but Burns is due almost twice the money Weber is. $54M vs $28M. If you don't think this is a big deal contract wise, you are not being reasonable.

If you think Weber has the 2nd worse NHL contract, I guess Burns is the worse. It's horse shit and propaganda. You don't have to like the Weber for Nylander swap and no I'm not pushing the trade. My question was if not Weber, who? And you are wrong about Weber's value. Way off! Your coach also disagrees with you! That should be a sign to stop your stupid "2nd worse contract" comment.

 

[Menzinger]

You would be hard pressed to name somebody less in tune with what a Kyle Dubas managed Leafs team will do than a guy like Simmons

 

[Namikaze Minato]

You would be hard pressed to name somebody less in tune with what a Kyle Dubas managed Leafs team will do than a guy like Simmons

but how many pre game dogs does he chow on?

 

[Liferleafer]

but how many pre game dogs does he chow on?

Now you are in Simmons' wheel house!!

 

[Gavy]

Not quite.

If Marner gets 9, Nylander gets 7, Matthews gets 12, and Tavares gets 12, the Leafs are looking at 40m in 4 players. Rielly and Kadri are on super friendly deals for another 4 years, as is Freddy for 3, but you can't really introduce much depth to your roster when you're paying so much for those guys.

Could they stretch it? They absolutely could! But would their defense continue to be an abyss? Yep.

They would also be screwed long term because once Kadri/Rielly/Freddy go looking for raises, the Leafs either Chicago themselves or let them walk, neither of which are suitable options for them.

Tavares isn't a player the Leafs should be chomping at the bit for; they should be waiting to try and get Doughty, so at least if they are paying 10-12m a year, it's for a player that actually helps them where they are already very weak.




Weber is the (arguably) least valuable true 1RD and I wouldn't trade him for that package. Gardiner is complete garbage, and Kadri while good is a 2C --- you don't deal one of the most desirable positions in the League for a 2C, a late 1st and an overpaid 3rd line guy.

Lol you're posts are hilarious

 

[Zezel22]

Understand that Simmons is a uttah fool but if this scenario were to play out where Toronto signs Tavares and looks to move Nylander - Would be a grand slam offseason for Devils to sign Carlson and pursue Nylander with Severson/Zacha/picks etc. Lou - stay long enough to take your boy Zacha!

 

[westc2]

I doubt Tavares would want to go to Toronto. I see him as wanting to go somewhere more laid back...somewhere in the Midwest...somewhere west of the Mississippi River, and south of the Great Lakes.