Prospect Info: Steve Dangle: The Prospect Pyramid

[LeafChief]

I was watching a Steve Dangle video on prospects and I really like his way of 'ranking' prospects.

The jist of his argument is that rather than listing prospects 1-20, it makes more sense to rank prospects in tiers. Within the tiers, does it really matter who is ranked ahead of who? The prospects in each tier are so relatively close in potential that arguing about who is slightly ahead of another prospect is a waste of time.

Here is the video:



For those of you that don't wish to watch, here is how he filled in his pyramid:

TIER ONE: Auston Matthews

TIER TWO: Mitch Marner, William Nylander

TIER THREE: Connor Brown, Kasperi Kapanen, Andreas Johnson, Travis Dermott

TIER FOUR: Niktia Soshnikov, Brendan Leipsic, Kerby Rychel, Jeremy Bracco, Dmytro Timashov, Tobias Lindberg, Andrew Nielson, Carl Grundstrom, Zach Hyman

TIER FIVE: Frederik Gauthier, Rinat Valiev, Yegor Korshkov, Adam Brooks, Martins Dzierkals, JD Greenway, Viktor Loov, JJ Piccinich, Jesper Lindgren

TIER SIX: EVERYONE ELSE

I really like this system. The only change I'd make is having Yegor Korshkov in either Tier Three or Tier Four. I think he's going to be a very good surprise for us.

Click to read more...

 

[Gary Nylund]

I was watching a Steve Dangle video on prospects and I really like his way of 'ranking' prospects.

The jist of his argument is that rather than listing prospects 1-20, it makes more sense to rank prospects in tiers. Within the tiers, does it really matter who is ranked ahead of who? The prospects in each tier are so relatively close in potential that arguing about who is slightly ahead of another prospect is a waste of time.

Here is the video:



For those of you that don't wish to watch, here is how he filled in his pyramid:

TIER ONE: Auston Matthews

TIER TWO: Mitch Marner, William Nylander

TIER THREE: Connor Brown, Kasperi Kapanen, Andreas Johnson, Travis Dermott

TIER FOUR: Niktia Soshnikov, Brendan Leipsic, Kerby Rychel, Jeremy Bracco, Dmytro Timashov, Tobias Lindberg, Andrew Nielson, Carl Grundstrom, Zach Hyman

TIER FIVE: Frederik Gauthier, Rinat Valiev, Yegor Korshkov, Adam Brooks, Martins Dzierkals, JD Greenway, Viktor Loov, JJ Piccinich, Jesper Lindgren

TIER SIX: EVERYONE ELSE

I really like this system. The only change I'd make is having Yegor Korshkov in either Tier Three or Tier Four. I think he's going to be a very good surprise for us.

Sensible, if obvious.

 

[ACC1224]

Tiers are fine, although Marner would be on the same Tier as Matthews.

Not sure this guy wants his opinions to be taken seriously though.

 

[Xscout*]

Tiers are fine, although Marner would be on the same Tier as Matthews.

Not sure this guy wants his opinions to be taken seriously though.

He 100% wants to be taken seriously when it comes to analysis.

His scouting abilities leave much to be desired tho.
95% eye test 4% hero chart 1% dem goals do.

 

[ACC1224]

He 100% wants to be taken seriously when it comes to analysis.

His scouting abilities leave much to be desired tho.
95% eye test 4% hero chart 1% dem goals do.

Good luck to him. 1st step would be to stop making videos from his bedroom.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

It's weird that Grundstrom is a tier above Korschkov.

 

[Bluelines]

Tiers are fine, although Marner would be on the same Tier as Matthews.

Joking?

 

[The Iceman]

Steve Dangle's spot in the Leafs market is as an entertainer. He does a great job at that.
Otherwise all his opinions are similar to any hardcore fan.
His pyramid is a cool idea and every hard core Leafs fan could have done a similar prospect tier ranking. At the end of the day some prospects will fail that were supposed to hit, and some will hit that were supposed to fail.
To expect a revolutionary prospect report from SD is wrong.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

I had to shut down the video at the 3 seconds mark.

 

[BuSaPuNk]

Steve Dangle's spot in the Leafs market is as an entertainer. He does a great job at that.
Otherwise all his opinions are similar to any hardcore fan.
His pyramid is a cool idea and every hard core Leafs fan could have done a similar prospect tier ranking. At the end of the day some prospects will fail that were supposed to hit, and some will hit that were supposed to fail.
To expect a revolutionary prospect report from SD is wrong.

Exactly take it for what it is.

He's entertaining to some because alot of the talk and views are like a regular fan, not like the other talking heads that are on either channel.

To me this is a better way to look at prospects and it's probably normal in team offices. Instead of a solid 1,2,3 list that can be debated at nausum, it places guys in brackets almost. Guys can move up and down accordingly.

Take the Matthews and Marner argument.

Matthews undoubtedly is in the top tier, hes produced in Europe against men in the Swiss league and alot will solidify people's opinion on him when he skates in the WCH.

Marner hasn't been tested in a full pro league yet. He can still undoubtedly move into that top tier and I along with others think he's already there but he hasn't shown it yet.

That's the only reason I agree that Marner and Nylander are in the tier a little lower then Matthews.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

Tiers are fine, although Marner would be on the same Tier as Matthews.

Lol, nope.

 

[ACC1224]

Lol, nope.

Why not? It all depends on what your tier definitions are.

Same tier doesn't mean equal, that's the whole point.

 

[Xscout*]

Why not? It all depends on what your tier definitions are.

Same tier doesn't mean equal, that's the whole point.

IMO marner & Matthews both could become 10 mil franchise players.
Don't see why you shouldn't rate them in the same tier.

Skill sets are different obviously but the ceiling is there.

 

[ACC1224]

IMO marner & Matthews both could become 10 mil franchise players.
Don't see why you shouldn't rate them in the same tier.

Skill sets are different obviously but the ceiling is there.

The way I see it, not sure why someone would give it a "Lol"?

 

[Mess]

Tiers is a practice that I have seen used before and its actually a very good way to group things of similar level.

Here is Leafs HF poll results that could be better broken down by tiers. (------)

Rankings:

1. Auston Matthews -- 90.30%
---------------------------------------
2. Mitch Marner -- 77.42%
3. William Nylander -- 96.95%
---------------------------------------
4. Connor Brown -- 35.79%
5. Nikita Zaitsev -- 57.87%
---------------------------------------
6. Kasperi Kapanen -- 37.50%
7. Connor Carrick -- 35.27%
8. Travis Dermott -- 35.59%
9. Nikita Soshnikov -- 44.68%
---------------------------------------
10. Andreas Johnson -- 31.60%
11. Dmytro Timashov -- 26.03%
12. Kerby Rychel -- 42.38%
13. Andrew Nielsen -- 31.48%
14. Yegor Korshkov -- 32.60%
---------------------------------------
15. Brandon Leipsic -- 23.97%
16. Rinat Valiev -- 24.09%
17. Jeremy Bracco -- 26.42%
18. Carl Grundstrom -- 29.30%
19. Zach Hyman -- 38.10%
20. Josh Leivo -- 55.17%
---------------------------------------
21. Tobias Lindberg -- 22.12%
22. Frederik Gauthier -- 29.52%
23. Joseph Woll -- 38.37%
24. Adam Brooks -- 34.96%
25. JD Greenway -- 39.81%
26. Martins Dzierkals -- 51.52%
27. Jesper Lindgren -- 49.40%
28. Victor Loov -- 41.03%
29. Frankie Corrado -- 26.67%
30. Garrett Sparks -- 25.87%

 

[Randy Randerson]

Good luck to him. 1st step would be to stop making videos from his bedroom.

I think that's part of his quirk, done intentionally. He has a short segment called "Dangle Dial" on the fan590 and does some stuff with sportsnet. Pretty entertaining actually, some of the content is obvious but presented well to keep you watching

 

[ErnieLeafs]

He 100% wants to be taken seriously when it comes to analysis.

His scouting abilities leave much to be desired tho.
95% eye test 4% hero chart 1% dem goals do.

That's..... kinda how acouting should be. Primarily based on the eye test. Actually watching a player and examining his game, with much, much smaller creedence paid to stats.

 

[Randy Randerson]

That's..... kinda how acouting should be. Primarily based on the eye test. Actually watching a player and examining his game, with much, much smaller creedence paid to stats.

Pro scouting has become much more analytical, much less eye test. As some of the same stats become freely available for minor leagues or European pro leagues, amateur scouting will go the same way I expect.

The eye test can be extremely misleading - ie, Roman Polak looks like a pretty good defensive dman (blocks shots..sometimes with his face, throws his weight around, clears the front of the net, all the stuff that we love defensemen to do) but his advanced stats show that he actually lets up a ton of shots, doesn't affect possession in a positive way at all, and drags down anyone he plays with - the outcomes with Polak on the ice are worse than without him.

Jake Gardiner is the opposite - soft, floating defenseman that plays with the puck too much and causes giveaways by the eye test - his advanced stats show that the outcomes with him on the ice are WAY better than without, he keeps shots from the opposition down, helps his team to possess the puck and improves the results for the guys he's on the ice with

 

[GardinerTheForward]

It's weird that Grundstrom is a tier above Korschkov.

Dangle clearly knows nothing except how to yell at the camera. Terrible list. Get him off 590.

 

[RyanOhReally]

Dangle is more of a Leafs/Marlies guy. The amount of times I've heard him say the wrong thing about a prospect or forget certain things about prospects on the SDP is pretty staggering. So for that, he's not the best.

But he's good at entertaining, that's for sure. Thinking about it, he doesn't know that much more than regular fans, just adds energy. He's fun to watch. I recommend him, most definitely.

His LFR's have gotten better each year, too. Also, the fact that he lives in his own house with his wife seems to be brushed aside when non-fans see the Leafs room in his basement that uses to record.

 

[egd27]

Dangle clearly knows nothing except how to yell at the camera. Terrible list. Get him off 590.

Which parts do you strongly disagree with?

Obviously everyone has their own opinions on specific players, but overall, it seems to be reasonable IMO.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Pro scouting has become much more analytical, much less eye test. As some of the same stats become freely available for minor leagues or European pro leagues, amateur scouting will go the same way I expect.

The eye test can be extremely misleading - ie, Roman Polak looks like a pretty good defensive dman (blocks shots..sometimes with his face, throws his weight around, clears the front of the net, all the stuff that we love defensemen to do) but his advanced stats show that he actually lets up a ton of shots, doesn't affect possession in a positive way at all, and drags down anyone he plays with - the outcomes with Polak on the ice are worse than without him.

Jake Gardiner is the opposite - soft, floating defenseman that plays with the puck too much and causes giveaways by the eye test - his advanced stats show that the outcomes with him on the ice are WAY better than without, he keeps shots from the opposition down, helps his team to possess the puck and improves the results for the guys he's on the ice with

You can literally see a player who is positive to possession. You can also see a player's defensive impact when it comes ro suppressing attack.

Do you people watch football? It's the same, except hockey is faster. You can tell who has the ball longer, same in soccer. Much like in football, you can see what side of the ice/field the opposition attacks, and whether or not those attacks are successful. Teams will put certain defenders on an island in all 3 sports, and pick on them, knowing that the opposite defender is a more difficult match-up.

I see scouts all the time at games, and I assure you, none of them are carrying a stopwatch or calculator. Numbers provide a little depth to what you see, and can both confirm and provide insight to what you're looking at. Scouting is, and always will be, for those with an eye for talent.

 

[Stand Witness]

I think a lot of posters in this thread don't actually know who Steve Dangle is...

but at the same time his content isn't for me. He is too loud and doesn't really provide any special insight though. He has been successful for sure, not some random nobody like others are trying to claim.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

He 100% wants to be taken seriously when it comes to analysis.

His scouting abilities leave much to be desired tho.
95% eye test 4% hero chart 1% dem goals do.

Well I found the problem right here. This is hockey, he's clearly missing 10%

 

[Mr Hockey*]

• TIER ONE: Auston Matthews,William Nylander
  
• TIER TWO: Mitch Marner,
  
• TIER THREE: Niktia Soshnikov, Connor Brown, Kasperi Kapanen, Andreas Johnson, Travis Dermott, Dmytro Timashov, Martins Dzierkals, Tobias Lindberg, Andrew Nielson
  
• TIER - : EVERYONE ELSE