Value of: Stepan or Kreider to Vancouver

[BA Carroll]

I agree, Kreider would be fantastic for Vancouver.
I think he'd be better with St. Louis, and I think St. Louis is a better trade partner.

For days, I've been proposing:

Shattenkirk for Kreider,
or
Shattenkirk+Schwartz for Stepan+Kreider

I've only heard snorts in response.
Shattenkirk *wants* to play in New York--he would re-sign there.

Could Vancouver beat either of those offers?
You could, but I think it would be too costly to your team to be worthwhile.

 

[I Eat Crow]

For Kreider?

Hansen and Virtanen

For Stepan?

Virtanen and Boeser

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

For Kreider?

Hansen and Virtanen

For Stepan?

Virtanen and Boeser

So 2 massive overpayments? We are looking for something realistic.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Kreider

2017 1st round pick (lottery protected)
Sbisa
Subban/Gaunce/ Pedan


Since Kreider is only 25, i would not hesitate to part with the 1st round pick. Canucks lack players in that age group. I am confident with his addition, it will not be a top 10 pick.

 

[bernmeister]

Who you are looking at Bern, I personally want no part of trading those 3 unless we're doing a full blown rebuild.

As for the OP I'd want Tanev coming back in any trade otherwise there isn't really much point in us moving Stepan/Kreider for lesser pieces as the holes opened would be too large.

We must do this as a matter of math and a matter of fact.
We ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. and will not be good enough without key adds, which are unlikely. That is fact.

The vet core has plateaued, and it earns the most $.
That is what we trade for younger, cheaper.
That is math. We must do that cause we have mismanaged the roster and are now up vs the cap with hands tied.

Yield to reality. 2x

Well we have no real reason to move either for spare parts or younger players since evidently the front office think the window is still open. Our glaring need in my opinion is rhd and moving the Staal/Girardi contracts if you cant help us with that then there isnt really much for us in any of these trades.

Whether or not "evidently the front office think the window is still open" === and I don't think Gorts is that stupid --- as a factual matter, it is not, see above.

Gorts will be allowed to make such moves of the vets or we will suffer the consequences.

Stepan is only one year older than Kreider and alot better. We have alot of speed outside of Kreider aswell. Its not like Kreider is very physical either.... Your love affair with Kreider is just ridicolous... He is a fast decent top 6 with upside, nothing more, nothing less.

No, we do NOT have a lot of speed besides CK, at least not difference maker speed.

kreider is extremely physical. his first shifts vs Chara, went through him like a knife thru butter.

your conclusion is erroneous.
as to age + Stepan, it is not physical age but status as vet pushing the salary cap. Kreider extended for max 8 years will get something around 4/4.5 ish and he is better value at that # than stepan at 6.5
why do you think EVERYONE wants kreider, Stepan not as much?

finally, Stepan would earn NMC which WILL NOT be allowed. he is going

So 2 massive overpayments? We are looking for something realistic.

quality assets are scarce.
the standard is the winning bid has to beat the competition.
what is best offer in league for Stepan/+?

 

[Classicnamesup]

Are people actually wanting to move Stepan? Would love to pick him up

 

[MissionCanucksFan]

Ya'll wouldn't like it.

Boeser and/or Horvat would certainly come up.

Hansen, Virtanen, and a 2nd won't do it.

Dream on and just keep Kreider then.......

 

[One Winged Angel]

Lmao . Do you even watch hockey.

Chances are, I've been watching and playing longer than you've been alive.

There's nothing on Vancouver's roster that would realistically be available and would interest me.

Get over it and go read some books or something.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Kreider

2017 1st round pick (lottery protected)
Sbisa
Subban/Gaunce/ Pedan


Since Kreider is only 25, i would not hesitate to part with the 1st round pick. Canucks lack players in that age group. I am confident with his addition, it will not be a top 10 pick.

Absolutely not.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I agree, Kreider would be fantastic for Vancouver.
I think he'd be better with St. Louis, and I think St. Louis is a better trade partner.

For days, I've been proposing:

Shattenkirk for Kreider,
or
Shattenkirk+Schwartz for Stepan+Kreider

I've only heard snorts in response.
Shattenkirk *wants* to play in New York--he would re-sign there.

Could Vancouver beat either of those offers?
You could, but I think it would be too costly to your team to be worthwhile.

Not trading Kreider for Shattenkirk. Not trading for Shattenkirk in general.

We'll welcome you home next summer, Kevin.

 

[One Winged Angel]

So 2 massive overpayments? We are looking for something realistic.

That's a massive overpayment for Stepan???

What you think you're getting a 26 year old, 55-60 point two way center who is one of the better defensive centers in the league for? Scraps?

Go away.

 

[clunk]

That's a massive overpayment for Stepan???

What you think you're getting a 26 year old, 55-60 point two way center who is one of the better defensive centers in the league for? Scraps?

Go away.

I agree that it wouldn't make sense for the Rangers to trade him for that, but Boeser and Virtanen, especially Boeser, are not 'scraps'. Boeser is a better prospect than your whole pool combined, let's be honest here...

Virtanen would also be your best prospect by a lot.

 

[One Winged Angel]

based on the value of top 4 dmen(Tanev being at worst a #3 and more likely a #2) his value is higher than that of Kreider or Stepan at this point.

Yeah let's use Chiarelli's dumbass trade as the golden standard. Since that's the case, every Scott Gomez equivalent can get a Ryan McDonagh like return and every Paul Gaustad equivalent can be packaged for a 1st round pick.

Using the exception as the rule is always a smart practice, you'll go far with that one.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I agree that it wouldn't make sense for the Rangers to trade him for that, but Boeser and Virtanen, especially Boeser, are not 'scraps'. Boeser is a better prospect than your whole pool combined, let's be honest here...

Virtanen would also be your best prospect by a lot.

1. I never said that they were scraps, invest in hooked on phonics, slappy. I asked if he thought he would get Stepan for scraps. Two top prospects was too much according to that poster. So what does he think he can get Stepan for, spare parts? Future considerations?

2. It would probably take a young roster player, prospect and a pick at least to get Stepan. Gorton isn't a moron like Chiarelli who clearly overplayed his hand and made a panic move.

3. Obviously, you don't know who Pavel Buchnevich is. So here's a suggestion... Quit while you're ahead.

 

[clunk]

1. I never said that they were scraps, invest in hooked on phonics, slappy. I asked if he thought he would get Stepan for scraps. Two top prospects was too much according to that poster. So what does he think he can get Stepan for, spare parts? Future considerations?

2. It would probably take a young roster player, prospect and a pick at least to get Stepan. Gorton isn't a moron like Chiarelli who clearly overplayed his hand and made a panic move.

3. Obviously, you don't know who Pavel Buchnevich is. So here's a suggestion... Quit while you're ahead.

I think you need to do some deep breath exercises.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I think you need to do some deep breath exercises.

And I think you need to learn how to read.

 

[coldsteel79]

And I think you need to learn how to read.

If he's spelling, typing and using sentences pretty sure he can read, maybe the sudden onset of anger is due to concussion issues from your playing days.

 

[One Winged Angel]

If he's spelling, typing and using sentences pretty sure he can read, maybe the sudden onset of anger is due to concussion issues from your playing days.

Or maybe I'm not angry and your pitiful attempt at psychoanalysis would make even Dr. Phil tell you to stick your day job.

You're obviously resorting to this overused tactic because there's nothing you can say about anything I've said because I'm right and you both know it.

Instead of assuming that I was saying both of those players were scraps and then trying to take a shot at the Rangers, maybe he should have just read the sentence and he would have comprehended it properly the first time.

Maybe then you wouldn't have had to come in to attempt to rescue him and I wouldn't have had to crush your aspirations of becoming a social worker or therapist in the process.

 

[quat]

Chances are, I've been watching and playing longer than you've been alive.

There's nothing on Vancouver's roster that would realistically be available and would interest me.

Get over it and go read some books or something.

Yeah, as a Canucks fan I don't even understand why you're interested in trading either Krieder or Stephan. I appreciate that you wrote "realistically be available". However, "Jim Benning" kind of messes with that whole thing. Who knows what's crawling around in his head. lol

 

[One Winged Angel]

Yeah, as a Canucks fan I don't even understand why you're interested in trading either Krieder or Stephan. I appreciate that you wrote "realistically be available". However, "Jim Benning" kind of messes with that whole thing. Who knows what's crawling around in his head. lol

Honestly, the Rangers probably won't deal either unless a can't pass up deal comes along. This is Ranger fans wanting to blow up the team and get shiny new toys.

 

[clunk]

Or maybe I'm not angry and your pitiful attempt at psychoanalysis would make even Dr. Phil tell you to stick your day job.

You're obviously resorting to this overused tactic because there's nothing you can say about anything I've said because I'm right and you both know it.

Instead of assuming that I was saying both of those players were scraps and then trying to take a shot at the Rangers, maybe he should have just read the sentence and he would have comprehended it properly the first time.

Maybe then you wouldn't have had to come in to attempt to rescue him and I wouldn't have had to crush your aspirations of becoming a social worker or therapist in the process.

https://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/prof_results.php?county=Nassau&state=NY&spec=166

 

[One Winged Angel]

https://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/prof_results.php?county=Nassau&state=NY&spec=166

https://www.hookedonphonics.com

 

[Doriva]

We must do this as a matter of math and a matter of fact.
We ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. and will not be good enough without key adds, which are unlikely. That is fact.

The vet core has plateaued, and it earns the most $.
That is what we trade for younger, cheaper.
That is math. We must do that cause we have mismanaged the roster and are now up vs the cap with hands tied.

Yield to reality. 2x

Whether or not "evidently the front office think the window is still open" === and I don't think Gorts is that stupid --- as a factual matter, it is not, see above.

Gorts will be allowed to make such moves of the vets or we will suffer the consequences.

Bern, we haven't made any moves to indicate a rebuild, the moves we have made are acquiring cheap prime age players (Holden, Grabner) to fill the gaps for what is evidently going to be another failed attempt at a cup run we haven't moved any vets or acquired any young assets.
These are facts not your kind of facts which are opinions presented as facts, but actual facts.

I'm not saying you're wrong in wanting to make the team younger, bigger and faster, I'm just trying to say that from what we've seen so far this summer there's nothing to really indicate that we're going for this grand scale rebuild or else it surely would have started around draft time rather than delaying the process until this point.

IMO the forward core is fine and will be for the next few years, if we can manage to replace Girardi and Boyle with guys that are even remotely solid then this team will maybe have a shot, if not we may see your grand rebuild after-all.

 

[TGWL]

based on the value of top 4 dmen(Tanev being at worst a #3 and more likely a #2) his value is higher than that of Kreider or Stepan at this point.

The only thing more valuable about Tanev is his contract.

Minus Staal and Girardi, the current core is fine. The issue is we don't have young depth or a top star to support them. Are we a playoff team? Maybe. Are we cup contenders? I doubt it. So, in 5 years, what's the plan when the core gets old? We don't have high end first round prospects coming and eventually replacing them in a top 6 role. Fans are going to put a lot of pressure on guys like Gropp, Kovacs (If he pans out), Graves. If they bust at the NHL level, we're pretty screwed if we don't do something now. So, I get why Berns wants to move those pieces, bust most of the time he uses reasons like age and trade clause kicking in. That's not why we should move them.

 

[coldsteel79]

Or maybe I'm not angry and your pitiful attempt at psychoanalysis would make even Dr. Phil tell you to stick your day job.

You're obviously resorting to this overused tactic because there's nothing you can say about anything I've said because I'm right and you both know it.

Instead of assuming that I was saying both of those players were scraps and then trying to take a shot at the Rangers, maybe he should have just read the sentence and he would have comprehended it properly the first time.

Maybe then you wouldn't have had to come in to attempt to rescue him and I wouldn't have had to crush your aspirations of becoming a social worker or therapist in the process.

Well my day job is as a therapist, I'm also an analyst, so one could call me an analrapist