Steam #17 - PC gaming, sales, discussion, etc.

SniperHF

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lol Metro Exodus is apparently going to be Epic exclusive now eventhough they've been using Steam to market their stuff by taking pre-orders for months :laugh:
They say they will honor the preorders (duh) but the page will likely be pulled soon.

One of the first results for Metro Exodus is the Steam page. It would be one thing if Epic was their exclusive distributor initially (crappy that is as well just less so) but to take preorders for months and then pull out later? :biglaugh:
 

542365

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lol Metro Exodus is apparently going to be Epic exclusive now eventhough they've been using Steam to market their stuff by taking pre-orders for months :laugh:
They say they will honor the preorders (duh) but the page will likely be pulled soon.

One of the first results for Metro Exodus is the Steam page. It would be one thing if Epic was their exclusive distributor initially (crappy that is as well just less so) but to take preorders for months and then pull out later? :biglaugh:
Yeah, that's garbage. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they didn't do it maliciously and this exclusivity deal just came about recently, but it's still a pretty shitty thing to do. Not that Steam is hurting in any way as they practically print money, but it still doesn't make it right to basically use them as free advertising and then not allow them to benefit from the sale of the product.
 

SolidSnakeUS

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Apparently it's a timed exclusive, but yeah, that is f***ing GARBAGE. And they do it 2+ weeks before release. While I know they are getting more money from Epic because of 90% instead of 70%, you also lose access to a much larger player base. I'm betting they are going to wait 6 months before a Steam copy. Good for me, because I'll probably wait till massive summer sales or fall sales.

Also, I'm curious, will they still update the Steam version?
 

Commander Clueless

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Yeah that's a dick move from the makers of Metro.

I understand the appeal of the Epic store and the extra share of revenue, but I'm concerned about their apparent lack of refund options.
 

Frankie Spankie

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I'm getting sick of Epic so damn quickly. The worst is how many people are defending them. I saw the best line about it last night and it was something like "competition is like a bike race, you can either become a better cyclist or you can jam a stick in somebody's wheels, this is the latter." People just think "Herp derp, competition good, monopoly bad!" Too bad Steam isn't a monopoly, look at all the store fronts you can buy game from. Steam doesn't charge a fee for giving away Steam keys to sell on other store fronts. Steam is basically allowing competition while supporting the game on the back end for the consumer.

Not to mention, I don't know if anyone has actually looked at the Epic store. I downloaded the launcher just to get free games and browsed through it. It seriously looks like a shitty mobile app site. There's no search box, everything is just in tiles. You have to scroll through their store page, which also includes games that aren't released yet in the middle of all the games that are released already, to look for the game you want to buy... On top of relying on awful business practices, they just have an incredibly inferior product. I'm glad that people are quickly turning on them at least, there are a lot fewer posts defending Epic around the internet now than there were when the store was first announced. Although knowing the way of the internet now, I wonder if people are actually smartening up or if Epic's marketing budget is just cut and they're not paying for as many posters/bots as they were at first.
 

SeidoN

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the funny thing is, I see people complain to no end about how shitty Uplay and Origin are but talking about how great competition Epic Launcher is

theres really nothing wrong with Uplay and Origin, where Epic Launcher is literally atrocious. its barely a step above the Windows Market for games.
 

Commander Clueless

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Yeah, the Epic app is pretty bad.

To be fair, Steam was also pretty bad when it came out. I hated it back in the day. :laugh:


I think Epic gets praise for its developer friendly environment, but it has a long way to go to be consumer friendly as well.
 

SeidoN

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Yeah, the Epic app is pretty bad.

To be fair, Steam was also pretty bad when it came out. I hated it back in the day. :laugh:


I think Epic gets praise for its developer friendly environment, but it has a long way to go to be consumer friendly as well.

my first interaction with Steam was when the Dawn of War 2 demo came out and was steam exclusive. I was at uni at the time and their network blocked all Steam traffic so I could only play it at my friends flat lol.

the app itself was also trash though. but they sure made it much much better
 

Commander Clueless

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my first interaction with Steam was when the Dawn of War 2 demo came out and was steam exclusive. I was at uni at the time and their network blocked all Steam traffic so I could only play it at my friends flat lol.

the app itself was also trash though. but they sure made it much much better

Actually I think that was my first experience as well. Was that the one that ran through Steam and also Games with Windows Live? Or am I thinking something else?

Either way, early Steam was a sucky-ass DRM that become great, and then became...pretty good. :laugh:


I think my favourite platform is GOG thanks to their aversion to annoying forms of DRM, but their app also needs work.
 

God King Fudge

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Yeah that Metro move was a jerk move. Basically used Steam for the advertising and then dipped out. Guarantee that'll never happen again. Gonna be all sorts of clauses now.
 
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SolidSnakeUS

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I remember going from WON Online to Steam... man did I not want to do that for a while :laugh:. This September will be 16 years as a part of Steam (for me).
 

SniperHF

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Will Metro Exodus ever return to Steam?
Yes - Metro Exodus will return to Steam and on other store fronts after 14th February 2020.

A full year? Yikes.

Guess we'll find out how well this works if the PC version bombs. Not that we'd ever know because I don't think there's an "Epic Store Spy" using public data like Steamspy does.

It seems to me like a big function of this annoyance is that prices are fixed due to the sort of soft publisher cartel. If Epic wanted to compete with Steam in a pro-consumer sort of way they could instead of taking a different cut of the sales, take the same cut but then cut their own profits by selling it cheaper. Publisher still gets the same money, store front generates business by being able to compete on price like basically every other industry in the world.

All these storefronts aren't really retailers though they are more like marketplaces which I think is a fundamental flaw of the whole business model.
 

God King Fudge

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A full year? Yikes.

Guess we'll find out how well this works if the PC version bombs. Not that we'd ever know because I don't think there's an "Epic Store Spy" using public data like Steamspy does.

It seems to me like a big function of this annoyance is that prices are fixed due to the sort of soft publisher cartel. If Epic wanted to compete with Steam in a pro-consumer sort of way they could instead of taking a different cut of the sales, take the same cut but then cut their own profits by selling it cheaper. Publisher still gets the same money, store front generates business by being able to compete on price like basically every other industry in the world.

All these storefronts aren't really retailers though they are more like marketplaces which I think is a fundamental flaw of the whole business model.
TBH, if I'm the decision maker at Valve, I don't allow that game to be sold on my platform period after this. You used us for marketing and promotion and then dicked over countless customers and Valve themselves to up your profits?

Nah. Enjoy your game without any post release sales from Steam.
 

SniperHF

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Some heavy damage control here

THQNordiq has a pretty stellar reputation among the sort of A to AA tier publishers. So I'm sure they weren't happy to be in proximity of this :biglaugh:

Their games aren't big enough fish to probably end up as exclusives but who knows. Relatedly, there's certainly a reason Microsoft went out and gobbled up a bunch of AA tier developers themselves so down the line will Obsidian games become Xbox/MS Store exclusive?


My bet:
TeP8yaW.png



I mostly just want to buy things on GOG though I still dislike clients in general.
 

God King Fudge

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Microsoft had to do something for their console division. They (IMO) have the better console, but it's been plagued by their completely idiotic launch messaging. They're doing some of the best stuff in the console industry right now between all the backwards compatible stuff and the GamePass service. No matter how good they do though, everyone always just says "No exclusives".

It's way too late for them to do anything this cycle but having a decent line of exclusives to announce for the upcoming generation will be a big deal for them.

All that said, I absolutely hate exclusive stuff. Just put it out and let the consumer make a damn decision.
 

Frankie Spankie

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Microsoft had to do something for their console division. They (IMO) have the better console, but it's been plagued by their completely idiotic launch messaging. They're doing some of the best stuff in the console industry right now between all the backwards compatible stuff and the GamePass service. No matter how good they do though, everyone always just says "No exclusives".

It's way too late for them to do anything this cycle but having a decent line of exclusives to announce for the upcoming generation will be a big deal for them.

All that said, I absolutely hate exclusive stuff. Just put it out and let the consumer make a damn decision.
It's kind of funny that they were committed to DRM keys per user and that was their huge downfall but if actually advertised properly, I bet it could have taken over the playing field. I got a Switch about a year ago and don't bother buying new games because I can get it cheaper used, the fact that they're on cartridges instead of discs makes me confident that any game I get on eBay will work fine used. Meanwhile, I end up selling the games after I beat them on eBay. That's 2 game sales that publishers/devs don't get money for from people willing to spend money on the games. If a console had a way to prevent used game sales, they can easily charge less per copy and take over the market share. Imagine if XBone games were $40 or $50 a game while PS4 was $60 but you can sell them. How many people are still going to get Playstation games?

I was saying back then that PC is like that. You register a game on Steam and you can't resell it. As a result, games are cheaper. Even as pre-orders or even right when they're released, most games can be found on GMG or elsewhere for 10-20% off. I still occasionally preorder games but I still pay $40-50 for them since GMG is always on sale. There have been plenty of AAA games that go on sale for half price within a couple months of release on PC, Shadow of the Tomb Raider being a very recent example just a month after its release getting cut to 50% for a weekend. How would console gamers react if they knew one system always had games for less, even if you can't resell them? Feel like XBone would have run away with it if they marketed properly instead of running away with their tails between their legs.
 
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SniperHF

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Sort of the problem with that is most of those guys are probably just reselling Steam keys :laugh:
Humble does have its own distribution mechanism though. But hilariously whenever I've seen a giveaway on Humble that *doesn't* include a Steam key like 90% of the comments are WHERE'S MY STEAM KEY!RAWRW!!

Over something free :biglaugh:
 

SniperHF

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Can someone explain why it matters to the consumer which store you buy your game from?

WELL there's sort of 3 layers I guess.

Layer 1 is where I'm at which is I hate all this crap and would prefer to just straight up download my games directly and not have a little portal/account tied to them and the strings that come with it.

A good example of why I hate these things is just recently I lost access to my Origin account. I couldn't play any of my games on it until I was able to directly get ahold of someone in Origin's tech support and have them re-open my account. They claim someone attempted to hack it, I'm....skeptical of this. And on top of that because the giant Anthem cluster of a VIP release their support was backed up like 6 hours.

If my games were a handy downloadable file I could have just launched my games and not worried about the stupid account. But because I'm tied to a stupid client I'm stuck till the issue gets resolved.

Most people aren't me and don't care about this. I could go way deeper in this but I'll leave it here for now :laugh:


2. Brand loyalty
People seem to really dislike having separate game portals. All the little value add features like friends lists, mod integration, multiplayer tied to the distribution network.
It depends entirely on the game but some developers have said their sales are as high as 90% marketshare on Steam. The game is the same price on Origin or GOG, or Uplay or whatever. But people still buy it on Steam. Whether it's laziness or not wanting to have multiple client softwares, or as I was saying earlier if the prices are all going to be the same why not just buy it all at one place and save yourself the relatively minor hassle of having more than one client/account/password/place your credit card info is?

There's also a minor to major cult aspect to some Steam fans so I'd always take out-sized internet reactions with a grain of salt. Their brand loyalty to Valve/Steam is not completely unwarranted though. For example without Valve pushing it I'm not sure the option to refund games would have ever come about. Valve was also a bulwark (though an imperfect one) against some of the more draconian DRM measures like seccurom and such ~10-12 years ago and that built up a lot of that brand loyalty. Valve with their relatively unintrusive DRM scheme was a sensible alternative and grew big enough that they could swing their weight against publishers with things like this.

I think most of your moderate to hardcore PC gamer is in this category somewhere.


3. Say you aren't invested hardcore in the PC gaming community but just want to play a few games once in a while. No service is as easy to use as Steam. All the rest, even my own preferred alternatives, are simply more of a hassle. Mostly in small ways but not always. Their value add features built into their clients are all worse as well.




Sure there was some complaining a few years back when EA pushed Origin hard and now they are nearly exclusive there, and Ubi with UPlay (spit). But people have somewhat grown to accept them as well thats their own games in-house so it's okay they have their own platform.

But Metro being a major third party game being exclusive on a particular PC distribution is extremely unusual. Maybe people will accept it in a few years the same way they did the self published stuff.

I think maybe a decent comparison is the TV streaming situation, where now people feel like they need to have 5 streaming services just to replace the one (Netflix) they used to have before when everyone sold their stuff to Netflix.
 
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Moskau

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Can someone explain why it matters to the consumer which store you buy your game from?

Like, who cares if its Steam or Epic?
2 issues for me.

1) I don't want multiple game libraries.
2)Epic is an incredibly scummy company that somehow manages to make Steam look like good guys. They're incredibly anti consumer. Their customer support does nothing, their security is something from the 90s, and their actual client itself is like something from 2003. I obviously don't have any proof but their entire scheme seems to be more about grabbing as much money from their Fortnite player's mother's credit cards before the eventual Government crackdown that is likely going to hit online gaming in the next few years. This entire thing reeks of take as much money as we can, while we can. The Epic client has no chat, no cloud save, no achievements, no forums/game hubs, and no refunds that are actually honored. It's blatantly rushed and something that would probably need another year+ in development before it deserves to be released.
 
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Commander Clueless

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Can someone explain why it matters to the consumer which store you buy your game from?

Like, who cares if its Steam or Epic?


At this point, for all its faults, Steam has a well developed platform that, frankly, nobody can match (Origin is actually pretty good for what it is, but it relies on EA games which have been...underwhelming as of late).

From a consumer perspective, the Epic store lacks across the board. I understand the appeal for developers, but for their customers....not so much.

I was going to post a bunch of reasons, but I see @Moskau above has it pretty much covered. :laugh:


Granted, it's early, so Epic has time to improve.


On a minor note, it's also a bit annoying to have so many launchers and so many accounts to deal with. I have a small pet peeve with needing an account for every single little thing these days - particularly when very few of these online platforms have done nothing to earn any trust (quite the opposite, in fact).
 
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