Statistical Comparison Toronto - Pittsburgh

[Gobias Industries]

- The Leafs shots against doesn't matter because they're mostly perimeter shots.

- Bernier/Reimer are better goalies than Fleury because they have better save percentages.


These two concepts do not work together.

 

[thewave]

Patrick Roy/ Claude Lemieux knew this and didn't even start playing until it mattered. Let us get through the Olympics and see who gets spent or injured. These games mean nothing, the guys know it. Carlyle is pacing them as he slowly transforms them into his team. We are a playoff team..relax.

That is a terrible idea for this team as our division is far to strong to support this approach. We have already slipped into wildcard spot over night.

 

[William Hylander]

Fleury .921
Zatkoff .865

Reimer .942
Bernier .936

Winner

How long will our goalies keep it up?

 

[thewave]

Winner

How long will our goalies keep it up?

With those numbers we should be able to make a cup run, too bad we allow so many shots that it ruins the numbers value

 

[Peasy]

IMO GAA is more important than save %, but that doesn't mean Fleury is better than Bernier or Reimer.

 

[William Hylander]

IMO GAA is more important than save %, but that doesn't mean Fleury is better than Bernier or Reimer.

GAA is only important if your looking at team statistics. The only thing that a goalie can do is stop the shot, he can't control how many shots are coming at him(unless you look at rebounds).

If we allow 50 shots on goal and let in 4 goals, is that the goalies fault? Partially but the D and the team should try to minimize chances. That's why save percentage is better to compare goalies with, it just shows what the goalie does with what is given to him.

 

[Mess]

GAA is only important if your looking at team statistics. The only thing that a goalie can do is stop the shot, he can't control how many shots are coming at him(unless you look at rebounds).

If we allow 50 shots on goal and let in 4 goals, is that the goalies fault? Partially but the D and the team should try to minimize chances. That's why save percentage is better to compare goalies with, it just shows what the goalie does with what is given to him.

Precisely, and in this thread we're comparing Toronto to Pittsburgh statistically and not Reimer to Fleury individually therefore GAA > SV%.

In your example given 46 saves of 50 shots is a .920 sv%, but a 4.0 GAA .. The Team in front of the goalie played poorly because it means the other team dominated the shots and the game while scoring 4 times and likely lost. Teams that give up a lot of shots against (like our Leafs do) and get out shot on a regular basis reflects on team strength defensively overall as it shows up in a higher sv% for the goalie when he does his job stopping pucks to the best of his ability.

If the Leafs only in turn fire 25 shots at the opposing goalie and he stops 23, giving up only 2 goals against he also has recorded a similar .920 sv% and a 2.0 GAA. His team won but because of the low shot count his sv% is not higher again a reflection on the Leafs team offense this time.

 

[The Apologist]

Precisely, and in this thread we're comparing Toronto to Pittsburgh statistically and not Reimer to Fleury individually therefore GAA > SV%.

In your example given 46 saves of 50 shots is a .920 sv%, but a 4.0 GAA .. The Team in front of the goalie played poorly because it means the other team dominated the shots and the game while scoring 4 times and likely lost. Teams that give up a lot of shots against (like our Leafs do) and get out shot on a regular basis reflects on team strength defensively overall as it shows up in a higher sv% for the goalie when he does his job stopping pucks to the best of his ability.

If the Leafs only in turn fire 25 shots at the opposing goalie and he stops 23, giving up only 2 goals against he also has recorded a similar .920 sv% and a 2.0 GAA. His team won but because of the low shot count his sv% is not higher again a reflection on the Leafs team offense this time.

Well then which TEAM has the lower GAA? Pittsburgh does after all have two goalies.

 

[Gobias Industries]

Well then which TEAM has the lower GAA? Pittsburgh does after all have two goalies.

And then we go back to Pittsburgh's injury woes and Vokoun becomes a factor...

Full circle.

 

[The Apologist]

And then we go back to Pittsburgh's injury woes and Vokoun becomes a factor...

Full circle.

I don't see Fleury/Vokoun as better than Reimer/Bernier either although he may not play again this season if I understand correctly.

 

[Peasy]

Precisely, and in this thread we're comparing Toronto to Pittsburgh statistically and not Reimer to Fleury individually therefore GAA > SV%.

In your example given 46 saves of 50 shots is a .920 sv%, but a 4.0 GAA .. The Team in front of the goalie played poorly because it means the other team dominated the shots and the game while scoring 4 times and likely lost. Teams that give up a lot of shots against (like our Leafs do) and get out shot on a regular basis reflects on team strength defensively overall as it shows up in a higher sv% for the goalie when he does his job stopping pucks to the best of his ability.

If the Leafs only in turn fire 25 shots at the opposing goalie and he stops 23, giving up only 2 goals against he also has recorded a similar .920 sv% and a 2.0 GAA. His team won but because of the low shot count his sv% is not higher again a reflection on the Leafs team offense this time.

^^
I'd rather the Leafs be only allowing 25 shots a game rather than 35+.

 

[Gobias Industries]

I don't see Fleury/Vokoun as better than Reimer/Bernier either although he may not play again this season if I understand correctly.

Yeah neither do I, but it's a tough comparison.

 

[The Apologist]

Yeah neither do I, but it's a tough comparison.

Absolutely. When healthy I take Vokoun over Fleury any day though so take that for what it's worth.

I think at the end of the day the Toronto Pittsburgh comparison is a lot closer than people would have you believe, as is Toronto Boston.

 

[Gobias Industries]

Absolutely. When healthy I take Vokoun over Fleury any day though so take that for what it's worth.

I think at the end of the day the Toronto Pittsburgh comparison is a lot closer than people would have you believe, as is Toronto Boston.

I guess so?

Tough to gauge the consensus view on it, I guess I'm left wondering why it's important to try to favourably compare the Leafs to recent cup winning teams.

I think the Leafs are respected enough and should be deferential to comparisons versus Hawks/Kings/Bruins/Pens, it's just the way it's always been and should be.

But it's all about that general consensus view, could be I'm too close to see the Leafs being underrated.

 

[Mess]

I guess so?

Tough to gauge the consensus view on it, I guess I'm left wondering why it's important to try to favourably compare the Leafs to recent cup winning teams.

I think the Leafs are respected enough and should be deferential to comparisons versus Hawks/Kings/Bruins/Pens, it's just the way it's always been and should be.

But it's all about that general consensus view, could be I'm too close to see the Leafs being underrated.

"The cream always rises to the top"

Recent Stanley Cup winners have proven to be the best when it matter most, so their ranking is based on past performance.

Us Leaf fans comparing our team to proven winners is a way to gauge our improvement. Until we actually beat them when it matters it doesn't count for much more than that at this point.