News Article: (State your case) McDavid vs. Mario Lemieux

[Ugene Magic]

I didn't want to do a thread on the main boards because I didn't want this to get detracted by McDavid apologists. But if you think it should be posted there, by all means, do.

State Your Case: McDavid vs. Lemieux



Now onto the subject:

Moarelle is trying to make a case where McDavid could "potentially" make a push for Mario's year(s) where Mario put up 161 points, while being rebuffed by Roarke. Roarke made a good case, but I don't think he made the point well enough, though he included game total mentions per parts of the season, he did not post the total games played that season (70) to nail down the point making what should have been a 185/188 point season for him per. 82 games, and I don't think Morealle even understood this from the outset, or Mario was 30/31 at the time, plus this time period also includes Mario's 160 points in 60 games.

Point being: McDavid could/would never accomplish this. Not in 60/70 and probably never in 82 games.

McDavid has 25 games to get 32 goals/78 points to equal Mario's 69 goals and 161 point 70 GP season.

If he can't maintain an above 2.0 PPG average over an entire season he will never get there. A 2.0 average over 82 is 164 points. Mario carried a 2.3 PPG average over 70 games even at the 1.97 had he played the other 12 games 2nd half of the season adds another 24 @ 1.97/28 @ 2.3 points.

Put away adjusted stats, Mario was pretty consistent until his body totally failed him. Had he not kept going and stayed retired he'd have the best totals in goals and points per game. .822 GPG and 2.0 PPG in 745 games.

Mario put up 1.767 PPG% in 2000/01 at age 36 43GP 35goals/41 assists/76 points which is a 152 point pace.

What McDavid is doing is the best since, Mario, but will never equal, Mario.

You can expand or detract for yourselves.

The one word spoken that speaks full truths in that piece is, "impossible".

So why even go there?

Or at least lay down the facts better and don't adlib you think he (McDavid) can do it on false personal narratives eluding the full truth to push your beliefs he can.

I mean, the facts/stats are all out there for everyone to see. Don't bypass them.

This stuff really needs to end unless "there's a real viable case that a player can".

This isn't even an "ALMOST" case.

Click to read more...

 

[Turin]

McDavid sux

 

[Sideline]

Can he hit 95-96 Mario numbers i.e. 160ish points? Sure if he stays hot. Can he hit 88-89 Mario i.e 199 points? LOL no.

 

[Josey Wales]

Couldn't carry Mario's sweaty used Jock

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean. McDavid has 83 point in 45 games which is a 151 point pace.

His team is also on the fringe of the playoffs and he notoriously does better in the second half of the season. I could see him hitting 170. I don't think it's likely, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[JTG]

I mean, I think McDavid is nearly as unstoppable as Mario was, and that's saying something coming from me because Mario is/was/and will forever be my hero. In today's NHL though, there's not much of an answer that has been found for McDavid. The answer for Mario was to ride him like he was a horse and two-hand him across the wrists, so

 

[RSPens]

I mean, I think McDavid is nearly as unstoppable as Mario was, and that's saying something coming from me because Mario is/was/and will forever be my hero. In today's NHL though, there's not much of an answer that has been found for McDavid. The answer for Mario was to ride him like he was a horse and two-hand him across the wrists, so

Well McDavid does benefit from the fact that he doesn't have to carry two opposing players on his back while trying to beat HOF defender Bourque. I agree that the NHL has a hard time stopping McDavid, just like they have a hard time stopping OV's one timer. The difference between now and then is that now the NHL does everything they can to try to increase goal scoring (so helping OV and McDavid), whereas for most of Mario's career the NHL did everything they could to try to slow him down. In today's NHL a prime Lemieux would make the 90's Lemieux look average (okay maybe a stretch...a little)

 

[HandshakeLine]

McDavid is the GOAT of boring, uninspired interviews and drinking lukewarm textured mayonnaise-esque condiments straight from the squeeze bottle, it's true.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Mario: 160 pts in 60 GP (2.66 PPG). Let's say, hypothetically, to account for missed games that he scored at Lafontaine's 1.76 PPG in the remainder. That puts him at 2.41 PPG.

Mario at 2.41 = 37% higher than LaFontaine in 2nd.

McDavid at 1.84 is 16% higher than than Draisatl at 1.58.
He is 24% higher than Kucherov at 1.48...you could argue that Draisatl's totals are elevated because of McDavid (of course it works both ways).

Point being I think that if McDavid can outscore the closest non-Draisatl player by ~30% I would call it close.

 

[JTG]

Well McDavid does benefit from the fact that he doesn't have to carry two opposing players on his back while trying to beat HOF defender Bourque. I agree that the NHL has a hard time stopping McDavid, just like they have a hard time stopping OV's one timer. The difference between now and then is that now the NHL does everything they can to try to increase goal scoring (so helping OV and McDavid), whereas for most of Mario's career the NHL did everything they could to try to slow him down. In today's NHL a prime Lemieux would make the 90's Lemieux look average (okay maybe a stretch...a little)

Yeah, I'm sort of there also. There isn't anyone in the NHL today that was as big, fast, and skilled as Mario. Hell, even Jagr in today's NHL back when he was in his early-mid 20's I don't think a player like that exists right now.

That era of Pens hockey was truly something incredible, but it was completely hampered by teams being able to maul skilled players. This league today is the league Mario dreamed of.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Next up, NHL.com asks "What's so special about Bobby Orr anyway?"

 

[JTG]

Next up, NHL.com asks "What's so special about Bobby Orr anyway?"

These debates have gone on and will go on forever. All I know amongst all of them is in terms of God given ability, Mario will never be matched. I cannot foresee those attributes ever coming around again, and if they do, the same thing would be happening as did in 83-84. Anyone not close to competing just mails it in the minute the season starts.

 

[HandshakeLine]

These debates have gone on and will go on forever. All I know amongst all of them is in terms of God given ability, Mario will never be matched. I cannot foresee those attributes ever coming around again, and if they do, the same thing would be happening as did in 83-84. Anyone not close to competing just mails it in the minute the season starts.

Oh, I know. It's clearly click bait and trying to stir the pot for the young fans and the Canadian version of the Arizona Coyotes. I just find it a bit of a dumb comparison.

It's also like watching young idiots walk into the history of hockey forum and ask why Gordie Howe is so great if he only broke 100 points once.

 

[82Ninety42011]

No he will never reach Mario stats and I love McDavid.

 

[eXile3]

Didn’t read. Question itself is insulting.

 

[SEALBound]

Individual season, maybe. Who cares. Sustain that over multiple seasons.

Durrrrr lerk at der erruahs and da gurlies! Durrrr!

Mario freaking scored while being draped in dmen. On several occasions, more infractions were committed on Mario in one end-to-end rush than in an entire modern NHL game. And there were absolute KILLERS out there looking to brain people. Wonder how McDavid would feel if ol Scott Stevens or Kronwall were in the game today?

McDavid is good. He's really freaking good. And I will continue to appreciate his greatness because he's truly a generation talent. But this is flat-out disrespect to Lemieux at the present moment. McDavid has a ways to go still.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's a shame the search is so broken here, but my favorite time of trolling the history of hockey forum was getting them to admit (after a very complicated and long winded argument) that Kevin Stevens was the league's best LW for a several year period, given certain parameters.

I did it out of love for the game. The trolling game. And also Artie is under appreciated and it was amazing watching Leafs fans trying to go "...b.b.b.buuut Wendell Clark..." and everyone kind of ignoring them.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't really have an opinion on this. Seems like kind of an "incomplete" as of now. Plus I kinda dislike comparisons stretching across such distant eras in regards to where the sport is.

But I just wanted to say that while the league definitely had some major hazards back in Mario's day that he had to navigate I mean... it's not like today's star players exactly have the red carpet rolled out for them by the NHL. As Penguins fans we know this as well as anyone.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Plus, think about the differences in training, equipment, medical care, game prep. It's so vastly different.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I mean. McDavid has 83 point in 45 games which is a 151 point pace.

His team is also on the fringe of the playoffs and he notoriously does better in the second half of the season. I could see him hitting 170. I don't think it's likely, but it wouldn't surprise me.

You ignored the "70 games played" aspect....Right here...^^^^^

Not 82.

McDavid at 83 divided by 45 = 1.84 PPG x 70 is 129 points.

Mario at 161 divided by 70 = 2.3 PPG

In the piece also explains he doesn't do better in the second half. no player does due to teams tightening up. Even Mario who went from 2.69 to 1.97.

Mario had 86 points in 32 games played compared to McDavid's 83 in 45 games.

Ignoring facts isn't gonna help you or McDavid.

2.3 x 82 = 188.6 or 2.3 x 70 = 161
1.84 x 82 = 151 or 1.84 x 70 = 129

If you stick with the 1.97 for the other 12 games loses him 3 points down to 185 per. 82.

Basic math.

McDavid needs to do that in 70 games that means he has 25 more games to get 32 goals and 78 more points.
"25 Games" That's 3.12 PPG.

Do you see him pulling that off?

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

I don't really have an opinion on this. Seems like kind of an "incomplete" as of now. Plus I kinda dislike comparisons stretching across such distant eras in regards to where the sport is.

But I just wanted to say that while the league definitely had some major hazards back in Mario's day that he had to navigate I mean... it's not like today's star players exactly have the red carpet rolled out for them by the NHL. As Penguins fans we know this as well as anyone.

Plus goaltending improvement.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Plus, think about the differences in training, equipment, medical care, game prep. It's so vastly different.

You mean smoking Dorals and housing whole nacho plates on game days isn't good?

Plus goaltending improvement.

Major goaltending improvement. Defensemen now aren't as "dangerous" either but they are FAR more mobile and positionally sound. And bigger with longer reach on average.

Although forwards have access to lighter, more durable gear and of course sticks now aren't these like ten pound pieces of lumber. So it helps even out a bit.

 

[Gurglesons]

You ignored the "70 games played" aspect....Right here...^^^^^

Not 82.

McDavid at 83 divided by 45 = 1.84 PPG x 70 is 129 points.

Mario at 161 divided by 70 = 2.3 PPG

In the piece also explains he doesn't do better in the second half. no player does due to teams tightening up. Even Mario who went from 2.69 to 1.97.

Mario had 86 points in 32 games played compared to McDavid's 83 in 45 games.

Ignoring facts isn't gonna help you or McDavid.

2.3 x 82 = 188.6 or 2.3 x 70 = 161
1.84 x 82 = 151 or 1.84 x 70 = 129

If you stick with the 1.97 for the other 12 games loses him 3 points down to 185 per. 82.

Basic math.

McDavid needs to do that in 70 games that means he has 25 more games to get 32 goals and 78 more points.
"25 Games" That's 3.12 PPG.

Do you see him pulling that off?

I don't really care to argue for McDavid. I think he's overrated.

Anyone comparing him or Crosby is a dolt.

Although I think you could say Sid has done "more on the ice" for the franchise than Mario.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Let's not forget, for Mario (and especially Orr) the major advances in medicine available today would likely have extended their careers and points streaks quite a bit.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Let's not forget, for Mario (and especially Orr) the major advances in medicine available today would likely have extended their careers and points streaks quite a bit.

When Mario came back I thought I remember something about how they were able to help alleviate a ton of his back issues simply by knowing that going for a dip in the whirlpool and rubbing some mud on it wasn't the answer.