State Taxes Just Not Fair

[mouser]

What did Bettman invent? Apparently Stalin did it before Bettman. Players had less freedom of movement prior to Bettman. The PA went on strike prior to Bettman. Lindros said no to Quebec prior to Bettman. Edmonton's dynasty dissolved prior to Bettman. All of the issues that helped one strike and three lockouts happen existed before Bettman, and finally had to be dealt with, basically all at the same time, because Eagleson was gone.

The NBA has a soft cap, but the NFL is a hard one. They just have so much money, and can cut guys at the drop of a hat.

And of course it matters if the NHL were to adopt a soft cap. That would be a fairly significant change.

Not to mention the majority of NBA owners have been trying to eliminate the soft cap. They've had pushback from the NBAPA so they haven't been able to completely eliminate it, but with each new CBA the thresholds and luxury tax penalties have been increasing to make it more prohibitive to go over the NBA cap.

 

[Viqsi]

In theory....

But like I said, drop the cap by 10M and tell me what happens?

Oh right, teams will have to trade players to teams that don't even want their contracts... So like I said, how do you sort that out?

So indeed the cap is without question driven by salaries, or rather cap hits.....

And that is one of the MAJOR problems with the cap -- there is no relation to players salaries - it's league revenue driven and you know what? when players are signing 8-year 12 million dollar contracts -- no one knows what the financial state of the league will be in 8 years...... League revenue could drop 2 years from now yet that salary (or at least cap hit) still exists, it hasn't been adjusted...

Look, the cap was designed by a bunch of fools that have absolutely no education in economics.....Yes, the CBA and the cap is an economic model....

Today, we learn about something called a "buyout".

 

[glovesave_35]

In theory....

But like I said, drop the cap by 10M and tell me what happens?

Oh right, teams will have to trade players to teams that don't even want their contracts... So like I said, how do you sort that out?

So indeed the cap is without question driven by salaries, or rather cap hits.....

And that is one of the MAJOR problems with the cap -- there is no relation to players salaries - it's league revenue driven and you know what? when players are signing 8-year 12 million dollar contracts -- no one knows what the financial state of the league will be in 8 years...... League revenue could drop 2 years from now yet that salary (or at least cap hit) still exists, it hasn't been adjusted...

Look, the cap was designed by a bunch of fools that have absolutely no education in economics.....Yes, the CBA and the cap is an economic model....

You're using some doomsday scenario to argue your point but it has no basis in reality.

The revenue numbers for the league can be found here. Revenue has gone up year after year, the only exception being the year of the shortened season of 2012-13.

Because you are arguing from a libertarian perspective I will take you on with respect to one specific point. You seem to be all about allowing the league to operate as a complete free market. Part of that means individuals and organizations taking ownership of decisions that set the economic path of their franchises. Everyone knows that the possibility exists of a salary cap decrease. This isn't a secret.

The cap will not take a drastic $10 million nosedive like in your doomsday scenario, but if it went down by $2 million that would just be the way it is. Those 8 year deals are negotiated knowing that that is a possibility. Those owners and GM's who sign those deals are responsible for dealing with this. However, the reality is that most put that on the backburner because revenues increase year after year.

Lastly, I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

So indeed the cap is without question driven by salaries, or rather cap hits.....

And that is one of the MAJOR problems with the cap -- there is no relation to players salaries - it's league revenue driven...

How is the cap driven by salaries but there is no relation to player salaries? Do you know the position you are arguing?

 

[patnyrnyg]

I mean average player salaries in the early 90's were 500k... they are over 3 million now... the cap forced a lot of owners to shell out money too, or take contracts on at least... its been quite lucrative for the players in all truth

93-94, the Penguins had the highest payroll at a whopping $15.1MM. Even then, some of the small market owners were looking for a cap. When they finally settled, the Rangers were opening with Buffalo. One of the WFAN guys had either the owner/GM/AGM from Buffalo on the afternoon of the game. The host was asking about the negotiation process and what the hold-ups were and he said, "Well for us, we really wanted a salary cap..." and gave several reasons. A big part in the growth of the salaries was either a tremendous growth in revenue and/or owners lying about their actual revenues from the start.

 

[patnyrnyg]

What did Bettman invent? Apparently Stalin did it before Bettman. Players had less freedom of movement prior to Bettman. The PA went on strike prior to Bettman. Lindros said no to Quebec prior to Bettman. Edmonton's dynasty dissolved prior to Bettman. All of the issues that helped one strike and three lockouts happen existed before Bettman, and finally had to be dealt with, basically all at the same time, because Eagleson was gone.

Lindros said no to quebec and sat out for 2 seasons before he was finally traded. McDavid could have done the same to Edmonton and Matthews could have done the same to Toronto, or at least tried. Edmonton's dynasty collapsed more because of Pocklington's outside interests bleeding money. The owners gave the players the freedom of Unrestricted Free Agency without compensation in exchange for $$$$$. No other reason.

The NBA has a soft cap, but the NFL is a hard one. They just have so much money, and can cut guys at the drop of a hat.

and that is why in the NFL, it is all about the guaranteed money, not the actual salary or the average amount per year. A guy like Eli Manning will not be cut simply because his current $84MM deal includes $65MM in guaranteed money. When a player is cut in the NFL there can be huge cap hits. If the Giants tried to cut Eli, they would have trouble putting together a roster of 53 guys who belong in the NFL because of the cap hit.

And of course it matters if the NHL were to adopt a soft cap. That would be a fairly significant change.

It would, but contrary to popular belief, the cap is not about parity and competitive balance. It is all about guaranteeing the owners a fixed percentage of the revenues. If the Larry Bird rule applied in the NHL, the difference between McDavid's salary and cap hit comes out of the owner's pocket. A luxury tax, just costs that owner more money.

 

[Crede777]

Because you are arguing from a libertarian perspective I will take you on with respect to one specific point. You seem to be all about allowing the league to operate as a complete free market. Part of that means individuals and organizations taking ownership of decisions that set the economic path of their franchises. Everyone knows that the possibility exists of a salary cap decrease. This isn't a secret.

The cap will not take a drastic $10 million nosedive like in your doomsday scenario, but if it went down by $2 million that would just be the way it is. Those 8 year deals are negotiated knowing that that is a possibility. Those owners and GM's who sign those deals are responsible for dealing with this. However, the reality is that most put that on the backburner because revenues increase year after year.

Agreed. Additionally, I would argue the CBA is a function of the free market whereby entities (ownership and players) negotiate in order to facilitate future transactions. It's a compromise, sure, but it really streamlines future events and actions. If there was no CBA, then owners and players would have to haggle multiple times each season which would cost revenue and slow down league operations.

Owners wanted a hard cap as part of the CBA and the players agreed.