GDT: Stars @ Flames, 7:30PM on TSN & Fan960

[1989]

He was actually pretty average last year in the AHL. Danny Taylor had much better numbers than Irving.

As Autograph stated, much of Irving's weaknesses can be masked by a good defensive system. However, in a more wide-open style, he could struggle. Autograph also listed many of the same issues that I've identified with Irving's game.

In many ways, Irving reminds me of Brian Elliott - goaltenders who can have decent and sometimes great stretches, but not they are not true, frontline goaltenders (i.e., ones teams depend on for very long stretches).

It's not all Irving's fault.

While experience plays into it, the worst thing the Flames/Heat organization did this off-season and during the lockout was not have Irving play overseas in a men's league.
It was a wasted chance that could have given him a real eye-opener for 20 games, while sharpening his reflexes and given consistent coaching. Instead, he was able to ride the pine with little to no competitive play and was still considered the de facto contender for the backup job this season for the Flames.

That is poor player management.

While I do give props to the play of Brust and Taylor, perhaps Irving could have received a Backlund-like shot of confidence and experience, instead of looking like a player who hasn't been given the chance to play consistently in games. IMO, he was nowhere near ready to take the starting job when Kiprusoff went down suddenly.

 

[Hand of Gaudreau]

He was actually pretty average last year in the AHL. Danny Taylor had much better numbers than Irving.

As Autograph stated, much of Irving's weaknesses can be masked by a good defensive system. However, in a more wide-open style, he could struggle. Autograph also listed many of the same issues that I've identified with Irving's game.

In many ways, Irving reminds me of Brian Elliott - goaltenders who can have decent and sometimes great stretches, but not they are not true, frontline goaltenders (i.e., ones teams depend on for very long stretches).

What are you basing this on? You say he has weaknesses, name them, he doesn't have a weak glove, it is actually quite strong, his five hole leaves something to be desired on deflections, he can improve and learn not to be so open, you say he over commits? He's just now learning to read NHL plays better, for this I wish Kipper was still here because IMO NO goalie reads plays better than he does, and Irving acknowledged this and that he working on it, you can't learn that from sitting, or by playing in the AHL. His lateral movement is FANTASTIC, he's overcommitting because he is used to the AHL game where they WILL shoot on those plays, he needs to learn that NHL goal scorers have more patience, and he will have to spend more time in the film room, learning his opponents, one thing widely known about Kipper is that he KNOWS his opponents and their tendancies. There could be nobody better than Kipper to bring Irving along, because all the things he does at an Elite level are things that can be learnt, and the Irving is in the process of learning. Irving is a very raw and rarely seen talent and given time and the correct development could be an extremely talented goalie in the NHL, primarily because he acknowledges his flaws and wants to improve them. I'm done discussing Irving with you as your misplaced hate of him drives me crazy and your just saying things to sound like you know anything about goaltending.

 

[fallsviewafro*]

Irving is a guy who still has only played ~15 games in the NHL. Chill.

 

[InfinityIggy]

In the AHL.



Way to use such a small sample.

I've been critical of Kipper in the past, namely that there are games where he gets overexcited and/or unfocused. You know, those games where he's flopping around everyone and has difficulty tracking the puck, which was what was happening earlier this season.

Knew you would say this.

So, this small sample..would it be the same small sample you are using to judge Irving with?

Nice to meet you pot.

 

[Hand of Gaudreau]

It's not all Irving's fault.

While experience plays into it, the worst thing the Flames/Heat organization did this off-season and during the lockout was not have Irving play overseas in a men's league.
It was a wasted chance that could have given him a real eye-opener for 20 games, while sharpening his reflexes and given consistent coaching. Instead, he was able to ride the pine with little to no competitive play and was still considered the de facto contender for the backup job this season for the Flames.

That is poor player management.

While I do give props to the play of Brust and Taylor, perhaps Irving could have received a Backlund-like shot of confidence and experience, instead of looking like a player who hasn't been given the chance to play consistently in games. IMO, he was nowhere near ready to take the starting job when Kiprusoff went down suddenly.

I agree, but he has preformed admirably regardless, and this could be the best thing for his development, because once Kipper comes back he can take the time to fine tune his game.

 

[InfinityIggy]

It's not all Irving's fault.

While experience plays into it, the worst thing the Flames/Heat organization did this off-season and during the lockout was not have Irving play overseas in a men's league.
It was a wasted chance that could have given him a real eye-opener for 20 games, while sharpening his reflexes and given consistent coaching. Instead, he was able to ride the pine with little to no competitive play and was still considered the de facto contender for the backup job this season for the Flames.

That is poor player management.

While I do give props to the play of Brust and Taylor, perhaps Irving could have received a Backlund-like shot of confidence and experience, instead of looking like a player who hasn't been given the chance to play consistently in games. IMO, he was nowhere near ready to take the starting job when Kiprusoff went down suddenly.

Agreed that they should of sent him overseas to a mens league. Having him ride the pine like that was pretty poor asset management.

 

[Sean Monahan]

Irving said something about maintaining NHL speed and didn't want to play in Abby too much because he doesn't want to slow down to AHL speed?

see: Braden Holtby

 

[Hand of Gaudreau]

Agreed that they should of sent him overseas to a mens league. Having him ride the pine like that was pretty poor asset management.

Only reason I'm glad he stayed, is adjusting to the European game, angles, play style can be difficult and if he didn't catch on quick enough, it could really have hurt his development, I'm okay with the path he is on now.

 

[Hand of Gaudreau]

Side note on Irving's career, you remove 2 games (Boston, Vancouver) from his totals he has a 3-2-4 record with a 2.3 gaa and a .923 sp. Not bad considering neither of those games were his fault.

 

[tmurfin]

People need to take it easy on Irving. He hasn't even played 15 games yet. He's a young goalie, give him time to adjust and get settled. We're getting points with him and that's what matters ATM.

 

[TheHudlinator]

He was actually pretty average last year in the AHL. Danny Taylor had much better numbers than Irving.

As Autograph stated, much of Irving's weaknesses can be masked by a good defensive system. However, in a more wide-open style, he could struggle. Autograph also listed many of the same issues that I've identified with Irving's game.

In many ways, Irving reminds me of Brian Elliott - goaltenders who can have decent and sometimes great stretches, but not they are not true, frontline goaltenders (i.e., ones teams depend on for very long stretches).

Nope not before his callup as I stated he had faced 551 shots allowing 43 goals for a SV% of .922 and a GAA 1.95 he was one of the best goalies in the ahl before his callup. He pulled something and played through it but was clearly not the same player.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Side note on Irving's career, you remove 2 games (Boston, Vancouver) from his totals he has a 3-2-4 record with a 2.3 gaa and a .923 sp. Not bad considering neither of those games were his fault.

I'm fine with defending Irving, but posting statistics using revisionist history helps nobody here.

 

[MarkGio]

I'm really impressed with Irvs. He's gotten better with each game and will continue to do so as we move forward. He'll be so stellar by the time Kipper comes back that Kipper will be fighting for a job

 

[Hand of Gaudreau]

I'm fine with defending Irving, but posting statistics using revisionist history helps nobody here.

That wasn't a defense of Irving it was pointing out that his stats are misleading as to the way he has played in the majority of his games.

 

[Lunatik]

He was actually pretty average last year in the AHL. Danny Taylor had much better numbers than Irving.

As Autograph stated, much of Irving's weaknesses can be masked by a good defensive system. However, in a more wide-open style, he could struggle. Autograph also listed many of the same issues that I've identified with Irving's game.

In many ways, Irving reminds me of Brian Elliott - goaltenders who can have decent and sometimes great stretches, but not they are not true, frontline goaltenders (i.e., ones teams depend on for very long stretches).

Take it from a Heat season ticket holder from last season, Irving was one of the best in the AHL before he was called up to the Flames. His numbers suffered after he came back from Calgary and his first child was born. He "lost" his job while he was away from the team because Troy Ward wanted to go with the hot hand.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Take it from a Heat season ticket holder from last season, Irving was one of the best in the AHL before he was called up to the Flames. His numbers suffered after he came back from Calgary and his first child was born. He "lost" his job while he was away from the team because Troy Ward wanted to go with the hot hand.

This is pretty much exactly it.

It had nothing to do with Irvings play, it was all due to circumstance.

 

[Calculon]

It seems like some people are expecting too much too quickly. Expecting him to be as good as Kipper at his best is beyond silly. No, he's not perfect yet but the deficiencies in Irving's game are by no means unfixable. The more he plays, the better he'll get.

There also seems to be this belief floating around that unless a goaltender's good enough to steal the game, he shouldn't be a starter. It's entirely ridiculous and a really poor strategy to build a team on. Just because the Flames over relied on Kipper just to be competitive doesn't mean it's a good or even a viable strategy moving forward.

The bottom line is, Irving gives the team an opportunity to win each game. You can't ask for more than that at this point.

 

[Skobel24]

I'm fine with Irving so far. Give him a few more games atleast. If he struggles, toss Joey in. if Irving adjusts, even better.

 

[YMCMBYOLO]

I'm fine with Irving so far. Give him a few more games atleast. If he struggles, toss Joey in. if Irving adjusts, even better.

That's not the argument he was trying to make, though.

 

[Northern Neighbour]

It's not all Irving's fault.

While experience plays into it, the worst thing the Flames/Heat organization did this off-season and during the lockout was not have Irving play overseas in a men's league.
It was a wasted chance that could have given him a real eye-opener for 20 games, while sharpening his reflexes and given consistent coaching. Instead, he was able to ride the pine with little to no competitive play and was still considered the de facto contender for the backup job this season for the Flames.

That is poor player management.

While I do give props to the play of Brust and Taylor, perhaps Irving could have received a Backlund-like shot of confidence and experience, instead of looking like a player who hasn't been given the chance to play consistently in games. IMO, he was nowhere near ready to take the starting job when Kiprusoff went down suddenly.

Thanks for the input.

What are you basing this on? You say he has weaknesses, name them, he doesn't have a weak glove, it is actually quite strong, his five hole leaves something to be desired on deflections, he can improve and learn not to be so open, you say he over commits? He's just now learning to read NHL plays better, for this I wish Kipper was still here because IMO NO goalie reads plays better than he does, and Irving acknowledged this and that he working on it, you can't learn that from sitting, or by playing in the AHL. His lateral movement is FANTASTIC, he's overcommitting because he is used to the AHL game where they WILL shoot on those plays, he needs to learn that NHL goal scorers have more patience, and he will have to spend more time in the film room, learning his opponents, one thing widely known about Kipper is that he KNOWS his opponents and their tendancies. There could be nobody better than Kipper to bring Irving along, because all the things he does at an Elite level are things that can be learnt, and the Irving is in the process of learning. Irving is a very raw and rarely seen talent and given time and the correct development could be an extremely talented goalie in the NHL, primarily because he acknowledges his flaws and wants to improve them. I'm done discussing Irving with you as your misplaced hate of him drives me crazy and your just saying things to sound like you know anything about goaltending.

I did list many of his weaknesses in my other posts, but obviously you didn't read them. Just go back to the last page, and you'll see what I listed. I've also listed them again below.

Knew you would say this.

So, this small sample..would it be the same small sample you are using to judge Irving with?

Nice to meet you pot.

The point is that Kiprusoff has a much larger body of work, so to use his poor start this year to justify Irving's play is ludricous. Kiprusoff is a proven NHL goaltender with a Vezina Trophy, and he's shown a lot more consistency in his play. And while he has his off games and flops around, he's much better technically than Irving. Irving, as I mentioned on a few occasions, isn't technically sound, has poor rebound control, poorly tracks the puck at times, tends to overreact to every movement, goes down too early, and isn't aggressive enough in his crease.

And to say pot meet kettle, you just contradicted yourself with the following post:

Side note on Irving's career, you remove 2 games (Boston, Vancouver) from his totals he has a 3-2-4 record with a 2.3 gaa and a .923 sp. Not bad considering neither of those games were his fault.

I know a lot of people have been high on Irving or believe he can be a very good NHL goaltender. I have long had doubts about him, but hopefully he proves me wrong. I have no problems with admitting if I'm wrong about him because that means he's helping the team out. While I don't expect him to perform like Kiprusoff in his prime, I do expect him to provide steady goaltending. Even in the Minnesota game, he struggled with his technique. Fortunately, he only faced 24 shots.

He's not awful, but he hasn't been great either. Can he improve? Definitely, but it has to happen immediately because this Flames team won't be scoring 7 goals a night.

 

[Lunatik]

I find it quite humorous that this NN fellow takes the time to reply to many posts about Irving but ignores the one form the person who has seen him the most. Seems to me like this fellow is just trying to mess with people and get a rise out of them.

 

[MarkGio]

So all we gotta do is limit our opponents opportunities and shots while scoring a lot of goals!

I think Irving will be OK. And if not, we're hooped because there is no one else. With goalies, you never know if they'll be good or pulled at any given period. As long as the players give Irving a fighting chance, I'm sure he'll do the same.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Thanks for the input.



I did list many of his weaknesses in my other posts, but obviously you didn't read them. Just go back to the last page, and you'll see what I listed. I've also listed them again below.



The point is that Kiprusoff has a much larger body of work, so to use his poor start this year to justify Irving's play is ludricous. Kiprusoff is a proven NHL goaltender with a Vezina Trophy, and he's shown a lot more consistency in his play. And while he has his off games and flops around, he's much better technically than Irving. Irving, as I mentioned on a few occasions, isn't technically sound, has poor rebound control, poorly tracks the puck at times, tends to overreact to every movement, goes down too early, and isn't aggressive enough in his crease.

And to say pot meet kettle, you just contradicted yourself with the following post:



I know a lot of people have been high on Irving or believe he can be a very good NHL goaltender. I have long had doubts about him, but hopefully he proves me wrong. I have no problems with admitting if I'm wrong about him because that means he's helping the team out. While I don't expect him to perform like Kiprusoff in his prime, I do expect him to provide steady goaltending. Even in the Minnesota game, he struggled with his technique. Fortunately, he only faced 24 shots.

He's not awful, but he hasn't been great either. Can he improve? Definitely, but it has to happen immediately because this Flames team won't be scoring 7 goals a night.

That post isn't by me

 

[Beats By CoRD]

I'm neither an Irving apologist or hater, but he had a terrible game last night. Possibly his worst IMO. That 3rd Dallas goal by Morrow was a disaster. If that were to have given DAL a 3-0 lead and we end up losing, everyone would be screaming to get him out of the net. Pretty sure it was not long after that that Irving misplayed the puck into the slot and would've been an easy tap in for any Dallas player. If that also goes in, my god.

But nobody cares right now because we scored 7 and won the game. I personally think Irving is a good goalie, but last night was awful.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I'm neither an Irving apologist or hater, but he had a terrible game last night. Possibly his worst IMO. That 3rd Dallas goal by Morrow was a disaster. If that were to have given DAL a 3-0 lead and we end up losing, everyone would be screaming to get him out of the net. Pretty sure it was not long after that that Irving misplayed the puck into the slot and would've been an easy tap in for any Dallas player. If that also goes in, my god.

But nobody cares right now because we scored 7 and won the game. I personally think Irving is a good goalie, but last night was awful.

I don't agree that he was awful, but yeah last night was his worst game for sure.

The Morrow goal was painful but the rest were pretty standard, and it was obvious the type of game the Stars were playing last night to try and score quick goals, Jagr even alluded to this in his interview.

I am still not sold on Irving, I don't know if he will be a future starter, but I think he has been good enough so far to warrant more viewings of him.