Cole Caulifield
Registered User
- Apr 22, 2004
- 27,967
- 2,465
I have 0 expectation for things that don't deserve high expectations. Star Wars is a popcorn flick and always has been. People expecting a great movie out of a franchise than NEVER produced one are setting themselves up for disappointement (ESB being to closest to one and yet, it is mostly a by-the-numbers tragic story).
Star Wars ranges from good to horrific, there is no "great" in there (if we talk about film making, not necessarily entertainment/cultural phenomenon). Star Wars ALWAYS has been by-the-numbers fantasy writing. ALWAYS!
You missed my point. You substituted the word masterpiece for the word great and used the same argument. I NEVER expected star wars to be "great" or a "masterpiece" NEVER!
I merely want it to reach the level it has previously reached (RotJ, ESB, ANH, TFA, Rogue One, Solo). Most people feel the same way. But you have distorted the situation as I previously explained by applying people's hate of TLJ to all the disney SW movies, and to everyone who feel this way. It's a bit silly.
TLJ tried to do more and ended up being too preachy. It was still entertaining enough and it had some heart.
You're the one who said that SW movies are paint by the numbers movies. Yet you're turning around and saying that TLJ tried to be more than that when it actually didn't. It was a popcorn flick like all other star wars movies, except it didn't feel like star wars. And it didn't follow thematically with TFA, nor with the original trilogy. It carelessly introduced elements which don't work in the setting (hyper spacing into other ships, the actual idea of fuel which suddenly became a thing in this movie). It was a bad star wars movie.
Most people's view on TLJ is of the "angry fan boy" variety.
That's an easy way to paint people whose opinion you don't understand with some dismissive qualifier in order to better be able to reconcile your own opinion of the movie with reality.
People rationalize their hate with points that look coherent to the untrained eye, but miss the mark for anyone who knows anything about cinema.
Wow... to the "untrained eye", "anyone who knows anything about cinema"...
Calm down Roger Ebert.
Oh, they have every right to hate it, but when I see some people saying Rey is too strong too quick when Luke was exactly the same (and yes, I have read the awful debates about that) or that Snoke was a token vilain when Palpatine, IN THE OT, was the same, I cannnot help but to face palm. People insist on VERY SMALL details to justify their feelings. Their feeling is legitimate, most of their complaints aren't. And, to be clear, I am not necessarily referring to HF.
The thing is that these small details taken by themselves are not why anyone hate the movie. It's the combination of all the small details RJ got wrong that make people hate the movie.
It's like I said about TFA. People loved TFA. It had a small flaw and that flaw was a lack of originality. But people were capable of getting past. They couldn't for TLJ because there was simply too much to hate about it and not enough to like.
From what I have read about TFA and TLJ, most complaints are because the movies aren't what they wanted them to be.
Guilty as charged. I wanted the movie to be good, and it sucked so I was very disappointed.
On its own, TLJ is a good popcorn flick. As a Star Wars film, I can understand some of the disappointment even though I personally like SOME of the risks RJ took (many decisions I didn't like, but that's just me).
I thought it was long, boring.
I thought the space chase premise was stupid, boring and didn't make sense.
I thought the humor was almost a complete miss and actually was done at such poor times that it detracted from the movie.
I thought that the canto blight scene was ridiculous, boring, pointless.
I didn't like the new characters which were introduced (Rose Tico, Admiral Holdo).
I hated what they did to Luke.
I hated that there was little continuity with TFA.
TLJ wasn't a trash movie, it was a movie that didn't meet the exagerate expectations of an IMMENSE fan base.
People didn't actually have exaggerated expectations. That's all in your head. People were perfectly happy with Rogue One, Solo, TFA. None of which were actually great movies, or masterpiece. So I have no idea where this hot take of people having exaggerated expectations is coming from but it really is almost purely in your head.
TLJ didn't hit the righ notes while a movie like Infinity Wars mostly did. That, I can agree with. Reading the TLJ has destroyed Star Wars or was an awful movie, it makes me laugh.
Exactly. I loved infinity wars. No one would call it a masterpiece, or great. But it did what it set out to do. TLJ did not. And that's why people who hate it hate it. Expecting the level of continuity within the franchise that Infinity Wars achieved is not asking for too much.