Online Series: Star Trek: Discovery - Topic II

[Jumptheshark]

Season finale is tonight. Hopefully it can end on a high note, but I'm not counting on it after last episode.

besides everyone dying and them starting from scratch?

 

[Blender]

besides everyone dying and them starting from scratch?

I mean sure, that would be good. A "Year of Hell" reset button for the entire season that sets this into proper canon would be nice also. Otherwise, they have a pretty weak foundation to build next season on, regardless of what happens tonight.

 

[Blender]

This is just so bad.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Not a great start.

 

[Blender]

We all knew this was coming. Burnham would moralize to Cornwell and convince Starfleet to scrap their genocide plan.

 

[Bjorn Le]

That’s how the war ended?

M’kay.

Who is her new captain. E: nvm, Sarek just taking weird. Of course they meet the Enterprise lol.

 

[Blender]

This episode might be worse than the pilot.

Of course the Enterprise was going to show up at some point. Need to jam a few more references in there to drive ratings!

 

[Blender]

Who is her new captain. E: nvm, Sarek just taking weird.

No, he definitely said they were going to Vulcan to pick up their new captain.

 

[Bjorn Le]

No, he definitely said they were going to Vulcan to pick up their new captain.

Then Saru refered to her as their Science Officer. It definitely seems like he's full time captain, unless they're going to go psyche, we got a Vulcan captain for you instead.

 

[Blender]

I do have to say though, this is a much better update of the Enterprise than the one from the JJ movies.

 

[The Nemesis]

I do have to say though, this is a much better update of the Enterprise than the one from the JJ movies.

In fairness, the Abrams-trek Enterprise was designed to look a little bit different. The official explanation was that the Kelvin's scans of the Narada exposed Starfleet to advanced future tech decades ahead of when that ship would actually be made, and fudged ship-building and tech development progress enough to account for the differences.

Obviously it's a fair bit of wankery to address a relatively minor issue, but it's not the worst ad hoc explanation I've ever heard (I'm looking at you, "Warp 10 makes you into an evolved mega-space-salamander with a severe rape complex")

 

[Blender]

In fairness, the Abrams-trek Enterprise was designed to look a little bit different. The official explanation was that the Kelvin's scans of the Narada exposed Starfleet to advanced future tech decades ahead of when that ship would actually be made, and fudged ship-building and tech development progress enough to account for the differences.

Obviously it's a fair bit of wankery to address a relatively minor issue, but it's not the worst ad hoc explanation I've ever heard (I'm looking at you, "Warp 10 makes you into an evolved mega-space-salamander with a severe rape complex")

Still, both the JJ film series and this TV series have shit on established canon and logic so much and I have been quick to point it out. It's only fair that I give them props when I think they got something right, and the design of the Enterprise they had tonight was spot on. It matches the design of the original while updating the aesthetic to match the series. Unlike the JJ Enterprise which was a fairly heavy redesign outside of the basic shape, this one is identical in a lot of ways.

 

[The Nemesis]

Still, both the JJ film series and this TV series have **** on established canon and logic so much and I have been quick to point it out. It's only fair that I give them props when I think they got something right, and the design of the Enterprise they had tonight was spot on. It matches the design of the original while updating the aesthetic to match the series. Unlike the JJ Enterprise which was a fairly heavy redesign outside of the basic shape, this one is identical in a lot of ways.

See, I'll credit the JJ-verse for at least coming up with a reason why everything is different. Whereas this show has just decided that they're going to be pinpoint referential when they can score some fanservice points, and use vague, broad strokes when they feel like changing things to satisfy their "artistic integrity"

If this show had decided to play itself as a splinter timeline or not so inexorably linked to TOS, I might regard them with the same amount of acceptance as I do the Abrams-trek changes.

 

[Blender]

See, I'll credit the JJ-verse for at least coming up with a reason why everything is different. Whereas this show has just decided that they're going to be pinpoint referential when they can score some fanservice points, and use vague, broad strokes when they feel like changing things to satisfy their "artistic integrity"

If this show had decided to play itself as a splinter timeline or not so inexorably linked to TOS, I might regard them with the same amount of acceptance as I do the Abrams-trek changes.

You're right there. This series has thrown established canon right out the window, except for when they want to jam some nostalgia in there so they can tie themselves in with Star Trek.

 

[Tawnos]

Then Saru refered to her as their Science Officer. It definitely seems like he's full time captain, unless they're going to go psyche, we got a Vulcan captain for you instead.

He says specifically that he’s Acting Captain and Starfleet Command called him Commander Saru. He’s not Captain.

I thought the episode was pretty good aside from the shoehorn of the Enterprise at the end. I’m a little concerned with the way they wrapped up the spore drive issue. Doesn’t feel permanent enough for it not to be developed at some point. Hopefully they revisit that in the future.

From the beginning, with all the talk about how unTrek Starfleet is, I’ve been saying that maybe it’s this war that puts them on course to be the Starfleet we all love. Looks like I was right. The execution of all of it was definitely shaky, or worse, at times. Overall though, I’m pretty satisfied.

 

[Blender]

He says specifically that he’s Acting Captain and Starfleet Command called him Commander Saru. He’s not Captain.

I thought the episode was pretty good aside from the shoehorn of the Enterprise at the end. I’m a little concerned with the way they wrapped up the spore drive issue. Doesn’t feel permanent enough for it not to be developed at some point. Hopefully they revisit that in the future.

From the beginning, with all the talk about how unTrek Starfleet is, I’ve been saying that maybe it’s this war that puts them on course to be the Starfleet we all love. Looks like I was right. The execution of all of it was definitely shaky, or worse, at times. Overall though, I’m pretty satisfied.

When did Starfleet lose its way? The problem with your theory is that it has never been explained why Starfleet is broken or why the characters act so unlike the Starfleet officers we are used to. The precursor to Starfleet and the Federation (which became it at the end) in Enterprise, the Starfleet in TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager we have been shown have all been fairly consistent, with some rogue elements and outliers who go against the trend. The whole reason those rogue elements make for a good story is because they stand out as a contrast to the established world, but without that contrast the story falls flat. It's the reason the mirror universe didn't work as well here and it's the reason Burnham's moralizing in this episode didn't work as well, it lacked the strong contrast of the rogue elements stories we have seen in the past.

Before you say the war made them act like this, that doesn't work since people were acting shitty to each other right from the start of the series, and you had the main character who we were told was a decorated and highly competent Commander who was perhaps weeks from the Captain's chair decide to throw out all Federation principles on a whim. Not to mention that they had only been at war for about 15 months and had suffered no where close to the casualties the Federation suffered during the Dominion War, and that didn't cause them to throw all principles out of the window. DS9 even has a scene in the finale where Sisko, Ross, and Martok are standing on a devastated Cardassia at the end of the war where Martok is celebrating, and Sisko and Ross are appalled at the damage the war has done to their enemy. Here you have Starfleet willing to inflict far worse damage on their enemy after suffering a fraction of the losses.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

Basically this was the writers going, we know this season sucked, so lets end all the storylines, get rid of the characters that bother everyone and then we'll show you the enterprise and play the music to ask you to come back next year, and we promise we won't screw this up as bad next year.

That was a boring uninspiring hackneyed finale with a cool last two minutes.

What really bugged me is the Burnham voice overs which were basically the writers leaning over her shoulder and saying "This is what we were trying to get at all year, get it huh hug get it"

 

[Tawnos]

When did Starfleet lose its way? The problem with your theory is that it has never been explained why Starfleet is broken or why the characters act so unlike the Starfleet officers we are used to. The precursor to Starfleet and the Federation (which became it at the end) in Enterprise, the Starfleet in TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager we have been shown have all been fairly consistent, with some rogue elements and outliers who go against the trend. The whole reason those rogue elements make for a good story is because they stand out as a contrast to the established world, but without that contrast the story falls flat. It's the reason the mirror universe didn't work as well here and it's the reason Burnham's moralizing in this episode didn't work as well, it lacked the strong contrast of the rogue elements stories we have seen in the past.

Before you say the war made them act like this, that doesn't work since people were acting ****ty to each other right from the start of the series, and you had the main character who we were told was a decorated and highly competent Commander who was perhaps weeks from the Captain's chair decide to throw out all Federation principles on a whim. Not to mention that they had only been at war for about 15 months and had suffered no where close to the casualties the Federation suffered during the Dominion War, and that didn't cause them to throw all principles out of the window. DS9 even has a scene in the finale where Sisko, Ross, and Martok are standing on a devastated Cardassia at the end of the war where Martok is celebrating, and Sisko and Ross are appalled at the damage the war has done to their enemy. Here you have Starfleet willing to inflict far worse damage on their enemy after suffering a fraction of the losses.

It’s not a theory. It’s what happened. We don’t need it “explained” because it’s clear it did. Sure, we don’t know why and maybe that’s an oversight. More than likely it was a lot of different causes.

I don’t know when they lost their way, either. It was obviously sometime between the end of Enterprise and the beginning of Discovery (obviously). The war didn’t make it that way, but forced them to make choices that exposed fractures in the ideals of the Federation, including Burnham’s mutiny. A Starfleet that is strong in their ideals doesn’t end up with an officer like Burnham in that situation, but a Starfleet on shaky footing does.

It’s a little disingenuous to make the comparison between the Dominion War and the events of this Klingon War. First of all, the casualties might have been fewer, but Earth was under imminent threat from the Klingons. Betazed was conquered by the Dominion and that put several other core Federation worlds at threat, but annihilation wasn’t yet imminent. Second of all, the fact that they didn’t lose their principles in a later war is nothing more than evidence that they learned from their past, given what we now know about that past.

 

[The Nemesis]

It's a minor thing, but I'm a little disappointed that there are crew members like Airiam who are just there with no explanation or background. Yes, she's a glorified extra with no real impact on the show. And it's entirely possible that a future episode will make a point of exploring that. but In the past we usually didn't get non-human officers without some understanding of who and what they were. We got background on Vulcans through Spock. We learned about Kligons through Worf. Trill via Dax, shapeshifters from Odo, etc. We learned about Benzites before Mordack (or Mendon, or whichever one it was) showed up on the Enterprise. This show has even done it with Saru and the Kelpians. Humans have always been the faceless mook members of the crew because they represent the ones we don't need to know about. Followed later by simple well-explored reaces like Vulcans (by which I mean ones that have easy makeup so you don't have to waste expensive prosthesis molds on background people who might only ever be a one-off)

But here we have Airiam, a species that doesn't seem to exist except to be a novelty on the bridge with no context to what she represents. It makes her little more than a showpiece. And it's kind of frustrating because the show just leaves it sitting there and goes down less interesting paths. Hell, we don't even know exactly what she is (alien? Robot? hybrid? Prosthetic-laden huan? Augmented alien/human? I know it's not important, and I know it doesn't need to be a driving force in the series, but I feel somewhat cheated that they're going to wag that in front of us with not even the promise of an eventual answer.

And don't get me started on Lt. Daft Punk from the Shenzhou.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

When they were giving the medels they ignored the background characters. That actually really bothered me. Stop treating your characters like wall paper, show. Seven the original series didn't treat it's minor characters this bad.

 

[Ducks in a row]

U.S.S.Enteprise N.C.C.-1701

What does everyone think of the look?

I like it more then the look from the most recent Star Trek movies but not TOS. It makes me think of a bit of both TOS and TMP Constitution class.

 

[Cloned]

View attachment 97429
U.S.S.Enteprise N.C.C.-1701

What does everyone think of the look?

I like it more then the look from the most recent Star Trek movies but not TOS. It makes me think of a bit of both TOS and TMP Constitution class.

This is how it should have looked in the new movies.

 

[Ducks in a row]

This is how it should have looked in the new movies.

Yes if the movies had that look would of been so much better.

 

[Osprey]

That was terrible. How do you mess up a season finale, especially that badly? I almost turned it off at "We... are... Starfleet," one of the corniest things all season (and that's saying something), and then couldn't resist fast-forwarding through some of the rest of the episode.

I can't believe that that's what this whole season was building towards all along. They just beamed to the surface, encountered no resistance, dropped a briefcase in a well, threatened a single Klingon and the whole war was over. Somehow, the Klingons, who are known for striking first and striking quickly, sat parked at Earth throughout the entire episode, waiting for who knows what, then managed to get a message all of the way from Qo'nos before they attacked. That reminded me of The Last Jedi, in which the First Order graciously waits to attack and obliterate the Resistance fleet until two characters get back from a critical side mission.

I'm just amazed at how these writers can think that they're pulling on our heart strings with their deep conversations between Burnham and Tyler, Burnham moralizing to Starfleet about principles and then the shameless fan service with the Enterprise and playing the TOS theme over the end credits. It's just utterly ridiculous, as well as boring.

 

[Osprey]

From the beginning, with all the talk about how unTrek Starfleet is, I’ve been saying that maybe it’s this war that puts them on course to be the Starfleet we all love. Looks like I was right. The execution of all of it was definitely shaky, or worse, at times. Overall though, I’m pretty satisfied.

You weren't right at all. You must be forgetting that, when she met the Emperor, Burnham referred to equality, freedom and cooperation as "cornerstones" of the Federation. On top of that, Starfleet naturally already valued and identified with those principles or else Burnham's moralizing in this episode would've had no effect. She wouldn't have been able to convince Starfleet to cancel their plan and Saru's corny "We... are... Starfleet" speech would've been meaningless.

You theorized that Starfleet wasn't yet the Starfleet that we know, but it's pretty clear from the last episodes that they were meant to be that Starfleet and just needed to be reminded of it. As silly and unrealistic as that is and was portrayed, the thought that Starfleet was as we know it and momentarily slipped before getting back on track makes more sense than the thought that a culture could be united and explore the galaxy without yet learning to be friendly, tolerant and cooperative with each other and then somehow evolve into that in less than 10 years, as your theory implied.