Star players that you never liked

[Tarantula]

comparing hunter’s hot on turgeon to stevens on anybody he ever hit in his whole career is ridiculous an undermines the credibility of anything you had previously said on this topic.

Wasn’t intending to compare the two directly, one was within the rules, and one was ridiculous, hence the suspension.

 

[sr edler]

The "you're next!" blink/grin doesn't rhyme very well with someone who claims he was overly sorry to take someone out with a hit towards the head. Again, why is it so hard to just be honest you wanted to take guys out of the game...

 

[brachyrynchos]

"What kind of respect do I get?...just because I'm a physical player, it's o.k. to come at me and do what you want? Hey, it's a hockey game, it's not figure skating. You know what? I can take a hit and I can give a hit. I don't care who it is. No one gets a free ride out there. I don't get a free ride, and no one gets s free ride from me." Scott Stevens.
Old school at it's best. How many elbow penalties? Suspensions? Stevens didn't want to injure anybody, he was doing his job within the rules as a defender, and quite well.

 

[sr edler]

"What kind of respect do I get?...just because I'm a physical player, it's o.k. to come at me and do what you want?

What does this mean?

 

[brachyrynchos]

What does this mean?

I believe it was regarding the Carolina series. Stevens being accused of playing dirty.

 

[sr edler]

I believe it was regarding the Carolina series. Stevens being accused of playing dirty.

Ah, okay. Then it's a little like someone is crying over people crying. No one is entitled to someone else's respect.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Both Stevens skates are on the ice when contact is made. The hit was completely clean

Agree to disagree. There is no question he was driving up to get Francis in the bean because he ends up in the air with both feet above the dasher.

Francis is like 6’3 and taller than Stevens.. and he wasn’t leaning down, only glancing at the puck in his feet.

 

[brachyrynchos]

Ah, okay. Then it's a little like someone is crying over people crying. No one is entitled to someone else's respect.

No. More like people crying that Stevens played within the rules, like every player should. Some are upset by the results.

 

[sr edler]

Some are upset by the results.

Well, if someone is sidelined with a severe concussion on a hit he/they thought were suspect/bad (no matter the rules, because rules can, hypothetically, allow anything under the sun), would that really be so out there? I mean, Cooke's hit on Savard was also within the rules at the time. What do you think about the Cooke hit?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Wasn’t intending to compare the two directly, one was within the rules, and one was ridiculous, hence the suspension.

ok. sorry for misreading you. carry on.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Since you are not quoting any specific post, I'll answer from my point of view, even though I might not have been among those you wanted to address:

Under the rules Stevens was entitled to not let up. It was accepted as part of his job. Okay... And yet, you read stuff like this after the hit on Lindros:


That's hypocrisy right there. If Stevens genuinely cared and felt bad about it, he would either have changed the way he played or - in case those kind of hits were indeed part of the job description - he would have had to quit the job. You have a well-paid occupation that requires you to repeatedly do something you say you feel bad about? Empty words if you still decide to keep doing it.

(Also, what does it say about a job or a rule if people are made to do things they feel sorry about or at least pretend to be sorry about time and time again? But that's a follow-up question.)

The "you're next!" blink/grin doesn't rhyme very well with someone who claims he was overly sorry to take someone out with a hit towards the head. Again, why is it so hard to just be honest you wanted to take guys out of the game...

i should say, i'm not here to tell anybody whom they should or should not like. you are all entitled to criticize stevens, or dislike him for deliberately injuring players if that's what you believe, or for knowingly playing in a way that had a decent likelihood of resulting in other players getting injured (which is what i believe), or whatever. you guys know that i'm not going to sit here and cry and browbeat you for not liking gretzky or mario or messier or whatever because i'm not 12 years old.

with that disclaimer, here's my take: scott stevens played to win. i don't think he was dirty in the marchment way or ulf samuelsson way, or in the messier way or sandstrom way or dale hunter way (i don't meant the turgeon hit) or geoff courtnall way. those are all different distinct kinds of dirtiness that don't extend to scott stevens. that guy was a straight shooter, though yes he knowingly played in a way that had a decent likelihood of resulting in other players getting injured.

are his words empty? well, i don't think the 30 year old stevens who told dino (a close friend) "you're next" is the same guy as the 38 year old stevens who looked like he was about to cry after the kariya game. i also don't think "you're next" means "i will decapitate you"; i think it means "if you threaten me [which dino was doing], you know who's going to win that fight. i'm scott mfing stevens and i'm not usually the one lying on the ice afterwards."

(and as a sidebar, i believe stevens to be a decent dude. i don't believe him to be a saint. i don't know what happened in washington in the spring of 1990, but we know that stevens was "standing guard" outside that limo. assuming, as i do, that he thought he was being lookout for propriety reasons and not because he believed an assault was taking place behind him, i doubt the 35 year old stevens, or the 38 year old stevens, would ever have put himself in that position. he simply wouldn't have been there in the first place, and if he had been accidentally he certainly wouldn't have been standing outside the car like a bouncer while gomez and colin white were inside with a woman. knowing what we know about the older, mature stevens and how he conducted himself, he would have told them they were representing the team and if they wanted to be intimate with a young woman to sober up and get a hotel room. but that was the 25 year old stevens. dumb young men put themselves into dumb young men situations, even though i would guess that most 25 year old men who are not in bro-ish professions like pro athlete, or the military, or law enforcement, or idk investment banking would have behaved differently than stevens did that night.)

re: the lindros hit (age 35) or any of the other hits, did he feel bad? any human being would feel bad. i feel bad for consuming gas and polluting our planet. would he do it again? of course. i try to minimize my carbon footprint but sometimes you gotta drive or you'll be late for an important meeting or you'll miss your concert or the kid isn't going to get picked up from school on time.

stevens had a job to do and he was a killer, and he had been trained to play that way probably since he was 13, if not younger. i'm sure he convinced himself that lindros put himself (and, moreover, put stevens) in that position.* what was he going to do, let him waltz in alone and into the stanley cup finals? 20+ years of being scott stevens is working against the tiny part of him that in the moment would even consider lindros' already scrambled brain. we've all played sports; we all know how fast things move and what it's like in the moment. after the game, even on the bench after the hit, that's when the rational side comes in.



* this is why mike gillis wasn't going to let manny malhotra play after his second eye surgery. it wasn't safe, but moreover it wasn't fair to the game. raffi torres (a close friend and former linemate) tells the story of passing up a big hit because he knew manny couldn't see him. you can't put a guy out there putting other guys in that position, making guys choose between playing the game and putting a guy in a coma. it violates the integrity of competition.

 

[Sentinel]

Jeremy Roenick, Peter Forsberg, Patrick Kane, and Sandi's Ozolinsh. For various reasons. Partick Roy, naturally

 

[24 others]

Dominik Hasek. One of the best goalies ever but still a bit to smug for me.

Hasek was an ultra-competitive psycho, who beat up a guy with his stick in a meaningless field hockey game. I don't know enough about Roy's biography but from the stories I read here, I imagine he was no different. Which only adds to my (semi-serious) belief that you have to be a madman in order to succeed as a great goalie in modern NHL. I mean, what sane person ever dreams of being hit by pucks flying at 100 mph every night?

 

[sr edler]

Which only adds to my (semi-serious) belief that you have to be a madman in order to succeed as a great goalie in modern NHL.

Henrik Lundqvist seems like the most normal person ever to me. Luongo seems pretty normal too. Curtis Joseph seems chill, normal. Kirk McLean seemed hyper normal to me. I haven't followed/stalked all those guys off ice though, so I don't know. I think there are a lot of goalies who are very normal, but some guys (Hasek, T. Thomas) are pushing that crazy guy stereotype.

Unless you mean you have to be that guy to reach over from great to immortal. (not that T. Thomas is immortal in ehhedler's eyes though, but nonetheless)

 

[Asheville]

Clarke and Messier

No bigger admission of "I am an inferior athlete/competitor" than intentionally injuring your opponent.

Not including Claude or Ulf as I never considered them stars.

 

[Sorry]

I’d say Jason Blake but he wasn’t a star.

 

[varano]

Dominik Hasek. One of the best goalies ever but still a bit to smug for me.

I hated him cause there was no way to score on him.

 

[varano]

Calling the big Stevens hit against Lindros a 'shoulder' is laughable in my mind. I've played a fair amount of physical sports including hockey and floorball. Always ready for a good hit if the situation presented itself. This is not a 'shoulder'.

Stevens was a scum bucket.

 

[Rangediddy]

I look at Mike Modano and I see Phil Mickelson... and I really don't like Phil Mickelson

 

[Thenameless]

Stevens' hits were kinda suspect though. He most often sneaked up from the blindside and kinda targeted the head area, semi-interference, flailing around with arms a bit.

I liked Kasparaitis' hit on Lindros because it was straight chest on, and Kaspar lost balance himself as a result of it. (I didn't like the cheering on the bench though afterwards). I liked Campbell's hit on Umberger, straight on textbook. I liked Willie Mitchell's on Toews, body tucked in. So it's not like I don't like big hits. But Stevens' hits rubbed me the wrong way.

There's no question Stevens was trying to hurt people, but considering the era, I still found him to be pretty fair about it. He didn't ram helpless people into the boards from behind, like others did.

 

[Nick Hansen]

I look at Mike Modano and I see Phil Mickelson... and I really don't like Phil Mickelson

Hahaha.

That's it. I really get what you mean. Just that punk jock aura, the guy you just hated in high school if you weren't one of them. Very punchable face as well.

 

[blood gin]

Calling the big Stevens hit against Lindros a 'shoulder' is laughable in my mind. I've played a fair amount of physical sports including hockey and floorball. Always ready for a good hit if the situation presented itself. This is not a 'shoulder'.

The part of Stevens body that makes contact with Lindros is considered a shoulder in human anatomy

It was a shoulder

Stevens was a brutal but clean hitter. And to be able to line up and hit guys like that with that level of force is a rare talent. You don't see many guys who hit like Stevens.

And what was he supposed to do? Deliberately hold back and in a ECF Game 7. "I'm too good of a clean open ice hitter better lay back or I may hurt someone" that's not how it works.

 

[blood gin]

Ed Belfour. No doubt a great goaltender. His personality always rubbed me the wrong way though.

Belfour I was kind of neutral on but his sloppy disheveled look always bugged me. He always looked hung over. Always

 

[Thenameless]

Hahaha.

That's it. I really get what you mean. Just that punk jock aura, the guy you just hated in high school if you weren't one of them. Very punchable face as well.

I punched one of those in the face really hard in Grade 9. Over 30 years later, everyone who saw the fight still remembers it (including a teacher that came at the very end).

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

actually i always thought trevor linden had an extremely punchable face. he was just such a golden boy. felt the same way about the admiral, david robinson.

not quite the same thing as comments above re pretty boys like modano, or (not yet mentioned) lecavalier and b richards. but related.