Stand up goalie

[SwedishFire]

Will there ever be another goalie that tries to make saves at center ice like Robb Stauber?

A beauty.
How the hell though could he get drafted.
The defence must got panic everytime he went for adventures.
LOL

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Unless the league raises the crossbar two feet, it's unlikely.

As Dryden pointed out, in the current NHL there's no reason for the goalie to ever stand up other than stretch their legs.

 

[Iapyi]

Fashion is cyclical. Technology is linear, if not exponential.

We can extrapolate this to linear fashion within a cyclical technology.

 

[Butch 19]

Unless the league raises the crossbar two feet, it's unlikely.

As Dryden pointed out, in the current NHL there's no reason for the goalie to ever stand up other than stretch their legs.

Really? how about:

1. High: the shooter is on the goal line (maybe even 2 ft above the line), but this is the goal line by the boards. The goalie drops to his knees, which opens the top 6 inches for the puck to score. If the goalie stands up, the shooter has NOTHING to shoot at.

2. Low: same scenario: the shooter is over by the boards, and the goalie drops to 1 knee and stick. The goalie has opened space at the post, and by his skates. There's always room by the goaltenders skates for the puck to slip in.

The Blackhawks won an OT Stanley Cup on the Flyer's terrible goalie's positioning, while trying to get the his stick paddle on the ice.

Stand Up! There's no need to open any more of the net to the shooter.

 

[Jacob]

I don't think so. And what if goalie makes a butterfly save - his rebound control will also be bad.

Which one is in a better position to make a 2nd save on a rebound in close? The guy already square and covering the entire lower part of the net or the doofus standing upright with 1/3rd of his body above the crossbar?

 

[Fitzy]

Butterfly is currently the consensus most efficient style at stopping pucks.

It will continue to be so until something drastically changes in the game of hockey.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Really? how about:

1. High: the shooter is on the goal line (maybe even 2 ft above the line), but this is the goal line by the boards. The goalie drops to his knees, which opens the top 6 inches for the puck to score. If the goalie stands up, the shooter has NOTHING to shoot at.

2. Low: same scenario: the shooter is over by the boards, and the goalie drops to 1 knee and stick. The goalie has opened space at the post, and by his skates. There's always room by the goaltenders skates for the puck to slip in.

The Blackhawks won an OT Stanley Cup on the Flyer's terrible goalie's positioning, while trying to get the his stick paddle on the ice.

Stand Up! There's no need to open any more of the net to the shooter.

If the goalie actually squares to the shooter (so many cheat nowadays) they cover most of the net, especially given the height of many modern goaltenders. Yes they leave the top corner open but that's a helluva shot to make. And if they're standing up they won't be nearly as well positioned to come off the post if the shooter makes a cross-ice pass.

 

[ManofSteel55]

It isn't about guts, it's about what young goalies learn. Nobody teaches how to be a stand up goalie anymore. Even if a kid wanted to be a "stand up" goalie and has a coach who doesn't know anything about teaching goalies, as soon as they go to a goalie camp or get to a remotely high level of play, that will be trained out of him/her. A full on stand up goalie would have no chance of even getting drafted to junior, let alone being drafted to the NHL.

 

[Butch 19]

If the goalie actually squares to the shooter (so many cheat nowadays) they cover most of the net, especially given the height of many modern goaltenders. Yes they leave the top corner open but that's a helluva shot to make. And if they're standing up they won't be nearly as well positioned to come off the post if the shooter makes a cross-ice pass.

yet they seem to make it quite a bit.

a cross ice pass: the pass came from the side boards (not in front of the goalie), so sliding side to side will actually be easer when standing up. Don't get me started on poke checking the puck when it slides in front of the crease

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

yet they seem to make it quite a bit.

a cross ice pass: the pass came from the side boards (not in front of the goalie), so sliding side to side will actually be easer when standing up. Don't get me started on poke checking the puck when it slides in front of the crease

quite a bit?

How often have you seen players score from the redline along the boards where the goalie is in position? Sure it happens but it's not exactly a high percentage scoring area.

Sliding side to side my be easier but the goalie is standing up. He'll be pushing off and dropping to butterfly as he moves laterally, versus already being on the ice, pushing off and sliding laterally already in a good position to make a save. And as someone else mentioned, it also puts the goalie in a terrible position to play a rebound.

You have to wonder if standing up is such an effective way to cover that angle, why did virtually all goalies stop doing it?

 

[Butch 19]

You have to wonder if standing up is such an effective way to cover that angle, why did virtually all goalies stop doing it?

I agree with you! I figured it out.

 

[BlueAzN]

Standup is dead. Butterfly is the present. The future is stacked pads.

 

[kitsel]

Unless the league raises the crossbar two feet, it's unlikely.

As Dryden pointed out, in the current NHL there's no reason for the goalie to ever stand up other than stretch their legs.

This is 100% wrong and as much of a goalie legend as Dryden is, he knows less about modern butterfly goaltending than your average high school tendy. This whole "goalies drop as soon as you cross the blue line and never get up" thing is total bs.

Of course you want to drop FOR the shot when it's taken a vast majority of the time, but a large portion of my weekly goalie lessons (and I'd assume most others that are being trained as well) focuses on not only staying on your feet as long as possible, but also on recovering TO your feet as much as possible. Recognizing when you have time to get back on your feet and set instead of trying to slide around is an important skill to develop. Movement, balance, and positioning while standing are incredibly important and contrary to what seems to be popular belief, we are MUCH more vulnerable, and our options are severely limited once we are down than we are in our set and ready position.

If you meant that there's very little reason for the goalie to stand up for a shot then you're correct and I've misinterpreted you.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

This is 100% wrong and as much of a goalie legend as Dryden is, he knows less about modern butterfly goaltending than your average high school tendy. This whole "goalies drop as soon as you cross the blue line and never get up" thing is total bs.

Of course you want to drop FOR the shot when it's taken a vast majority of the time, but a large portion of my weekly goalie lessons (and I'd assume most others that are being trained as well) focuses on not only staying on your feet as long as possible, but also on recovering TO your feet as much as possible. Recognizing when you have time to get back on your feet and set instead of trying to slide around is an important skill to develop. Movement, balance, and positioning while standing are incredibly important and contrary to what seems to be popular belief, we are MUCH more vulnerable, and our options are severely limited once we are down than we are in our set and ready position.

If you meant that there's very little reason for the goalie to stand up for a shot then you're correct and I've misinterpreted you.

Well again, I'm quoting Dryden. But I didn't take it to mean they literally are on their knees the whole time. I'm not ga goalie but it seems like you'd be swimming and not be able to get out to cut off angles or push off on edges or anything.

I took it to mean more that in the modern game there's no reason to stand up mostly straight. That it's about dropping into the butterfly to make saves.

 

[BraveCanadian]

There were never be a pure standup as long as there are no regulations removing the equipment that enables the butterfly to be an all the time go-to rather than a save selection.
The butterfly covers more net and lets pucks hit you that you may not have even seen just by having a big body there. NHL goalies are becoming like big centers used to be in the NBA. Selected for size over most other things.

Depending on your viewpoint, this is a good thing, or a situation where the NHL badly dropped the ball by not nipping the equipment arms race in the bud. Imagine if hitters in MLB could use the latest in material science to fashion bats that let every average player jack home runs all over the place.

 

[Iapyi]

Really? how about:

1. High: the shooter is on the goal line (maybe even 2 ft above the line), but this is the goal line by the boards. The goalie drops to his knees, which opens the top 6 inches for the puck to score. If the goalie stands up, the shooter has NOTHING to shoot at.

2. Low: same scenario: the shooter is over by the boards, and the goalie drops to 1 knee and stick. The goalie has opened space at the post, and by his skates. There's always room by the goaltenders skates for the puck to slip in.

The Blackhawks won an OT Stanley Cup on the Flyer's terrible goalie's positioning, while trying to get the his stick paddle on the ice.

Stand Up! There's no need to open any more of the net to the shooter.

Good points, another time it makes sense for the goalie to be standing up is the opening face-off. I can think of no reason for them to be on their knees then either.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

yet they seem to make it quite a bit.

a cross ice pass: the pass came from the side boards (not in front of the goalie), so sliding side to side will actually be easer when standing up. Don't get me started on poke checking the puck when it slides in front of the crease

Dude, if the goalie is standing up, there is far more space to shoot at. There is plenty of room above stick even if its covering their fivehole not to mention sliding across ice for passes.

And if shooter isnwhere you say there are,, there should be no space even if goalie is down as today's goalies are so tall they still cover top part of net. The goal doesn't happen all the time and when it does its weak. Sure sometimes goalies fail to use glove or close the space, but that happened when standup goalies were around too.

Also, look at the league sv% when goalies were standup vs where it is now. It's 9bvipus which is more effective.

And there are a few goalies who do unorthodox stand up longer in some situations like you described, Jack Campbell doesn't drop as often as others, but they for the most part will still go down the majority of the time as it's far more effective overall.

 

[Stephen]

Campbell has a unique style compared to many.

Campbell looks like a throwback 90s hybrid reflex goalie like a Curtis Joseph. Not a pure butterfly goalie but will paddle down and battle to make those saves along the ice and has great athleticism.

 

[Butch 19]

There were never be a pure standup as long as there are no regulations removing the equipment that enables the butterfly to be an all the time go-to rather than a save selection.
The butterfly covers more net and lets pucks hit you that you may not have even seen just by having a big body there. NHL goalies are becoming like big centers used to be in the NBA. Selected for size over most other things.

.

Not for shots coming from the goal line 10 - 12 ft from the goal.

 

[Eisen]

There were good reasons why they used to stand up

There was pretty much a "rule" that you shouldn't go to your knees:

1) the leather pads etc would suck up the water from the ice, becoming extremely heavy by the end of the game

2) no face protection, or bad protection: going to your knees left your head below the bar, thus making it prime target for shots

The butterfly came only after the better goalie masks & plastic foam pads became a thing in the 80s

I'm not so sure about the importance of the mask. Goalies like Worsley or Sawchuk had very deep crouches before the mask.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

It's fair to say that going forward, since goalie is such a competitive position, with only 64 NHL spots, every goalie we see will be a "hybrid". You have to have every to tool at your disposal to get a sniff at an NHL net.

 

[soothsayer]

Stand up technique involves using the length of the skate blade to stop pucks along the ice, while butterfly involves the length of the pad. You get, what, four times more coverage with the pad? The butterfly is just a far more efficient technique. And equipment has evolved to accommodate the butterfly, not the other way around, despite what some old heads say.

 

[ViktorBaeArvidsson]

When i was 10 I thought stand-up goalie just meant they were a tall goalie, “yeah that Brent Krahn guy is a stand up goalie”

 

[IdontSpitOnTheIce]

I think it’s “hybrid” style now and not butterfly.

 

[biturbo19]

The only way it changes is if equipment changes and even then I have a hard time believing that would change how goalies play nowadays. Goaltending has become "money-pucked" in a way and it is all about playing the odds. Goaltender can cover so much net with the butterfly without having to play outside the crease, add onto how much better goalies move laterally nowadays makes it seem like the are 1000% more efficient than those older 80's / 90's goalies.

This is the reality of it. We're not going to see any significant sort of "evolution" of the goaltending position beyond continuing refinement and tweaking of the butterfly into even more of an odds-playing "science"...unless there is some substantial change in either the equipment, or the size of the nets themselves changing drastically.

A lot of the "art" of hockey has been drilled out of the game. Not just in goaltending style, but the game as a whole is vastly more rigid and systematized now. And only pushing further in that direction.