St Louis, Kronke, NFL Rams relocation lawsuit discussion

[Fenway]

I have a feeling the NFL will try to settle this out of court simply to keep the NFL's finances private.

Is it possible that the NFL will offer St. Louis another team via expansion or more likely relocation? (Jacksonville?)



St. Louis judge denies NFL, Rams and Kroenke's move to dismiss relocation lawsuit

Circuit Judge Christopher McGraugh’s order rebuffed all of the legal arguments by the league, club and Kroenke in their attempts to avoid a high-stakes civil trial set for January in St. Louis Circuit Court.

The lawsuit was filed in 2017 by St. Louis, St. Louis County and the St. Louis Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority. Its core claim: that the NFL broke its own relocation rules that were established decades ago to avoid antitrust liability and encourage teams to stay in their home cities. The suit alleged the Rams’ move to Los Angeles in 2016 was a breach of contract, fraud, illegal enrichment and interference in business by the Rams and the NFL, causing significant public financial loss.

The Regional Sports Authority, or RSA, owns The Dome at America’s Center, formerly called Edward Jones Dome, where the Rams played for 21 seasons — 15 of them with losing records. The St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission, often called the CVC, runs the stadium and convention center.

In June, the NFL, Rams and Kroenke sought to have the suit dismissed by filing a motion for summary judgment. In it, they sought to discredit the lawsuit by arguing the league’s relocation guidelines are not a contract and that the team owners are free to apply their own “business judgment” in assessing whether a team should move in order to advance the NFL’s “collective interests.”

Click to read more...

 

[Centrum Hockey]

If Kroenke and the NFL really wanted to make this go away they should work out a deal for the Chargers to go to STL without their name and history and expand to San Diego. Its not very realistic however due to multiple factors like spanos,the dome at america center etc.
San Diego State details how NFL could fit with stadium proposal

 

[No Fun Shogun]

As someone ordinarily prone to hating St. Louis, I hope that the city is able to sue the league and Kroenke for a very hefty amount. It was blatantly obvious throughout that the Rams were never interested in negotiating in good faith.

 

[sh724]

If Kroenke and the NFL really wanted to make this go away they should work out a deal for the Chargers to go to STL without their name and history and expand to San Diego. Its not very realistic however due to multiple factors like spanos,the dome at america center etc.
San Diego State details how NFL could fit with stadium proposal

That isnt really an equal deal for STL though. If STL wins the lawsuit they would get in excess of $1B. How many years would it take for an NFL team to generate that much revenue for the city? The city of STL is a separate entity from STL county. The county wraps around the city but the city is not part of the county, which is very unique. Most of the money and resources are in the county and the city has no access to it, a $1B+ payday for the city would be huge.

Ignoring that hypothetical....At this point i doubt the STL approves anything to do with the NFL unless it comes with a world class stadium that requires $0 in public money

"Gifting" STL an NFL team doesnt really make the city whole nor does it forgive the fact that 2 NFL teams have left STL over stadium issues. It just allows another super wealthy person to make money off of STL sports fans.

If the NFL was interested in settling it would have come out by now. This has been going on for a few years now and the NFL has lost just about every time the two sides have appeared in court. This loss is just par for the course. There is a mountain of evidence damning the NFL and the NFL is going about it like the laws dont apply to them.

 

[mouser]

I have a feeling the NFL will try to settle this out of court simply to keep the NFL's finances private.

Is it possible that the NFL will offer St. Louis another team via expansion or more likely relocation? (Jacksonville?)



St. Louis judge denies NFL, Rams and Kroenke's move to dismiss relocation lawsuit

Circuit Judge Christopher McGraugh’s order rebuffed all of the legal arguments by the league, club and Kroenke in their attempts to avoid a high-stakes civil trial set for January in St. Louis Circuit Court.

The lawsuit was filed in 2017 by St. Louis, St. Louis County and the St. Louis Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority. Its core claim: that the NFL broke its own relocation rules that were established decades ago to avoid antitrust liability and encourage teams to stay in their home cities. The suit alleged the Rams’ move to Los Angeles in 2016 was a breach of contract, fraud, illegal enrichment and interference in business by the Rams and the NFL, causing significant public financial loss.

The Regional Sports Authority, or RSA, owns The Dome at America’s Center, formerly called Edward Jones Dome, where the Rams played for 21 seasons — 15 of them with losing records. The St. Louis Convention and Visitors Commission, often called the CVC, runs the stadium and convention center.

In June, the NFL, Rams and Kroenke sought to have the suit dismissed by filing a motion for summary judgment. In it, they sought to discredit the lawsuit by arguing the league’s relocation guidelines are not a contract and that the team owners are free to apply their own “business judgment” in assessing whether a team should move in order to advance the NFL’s “collective interests.”

I also expect this gets settled, but likely in the $10m’s range rather then $100m+.

The NFL relocation rules were created in response to Al Davis, so the NFL could potentially block a team relocation without violating anti-trust laws.

Allowing a team to relocate, even if it doesn’t pass the NFL’s “relocation rules” doesn’t inversely mean the NFL is violating anti-trust law by permitting the relocation. Blocking a team relocation is far far higher on the anti-trust legal risk then allowing a team to relocate.

 

[sh724]

I also expect this gets settled, but likely in the $10m’s range rather then $100m+.

The NFL relocation rules were created in response to Al Davis, so the NFL could potentially block a team relocation without violating anti-trust laws.

Allowing a team to relocate, even if it doesn’t pass the NFL’s “relocation rules” doesn’t inversely mean the NFL is violating anti-trust law by permitting the relocation. Blocking a team relocation is far far higher on the anti-trust legal risk then allowing a team to relocate.

The actual claims in the filing are for over $1B, I do not see the city settling for less than 10% of that especially when they have won just about every hearing so far.

Goodell is on record stating that the relocation rules are 100% binding, which is part of the cities evidence against the league. He then said under oath that they are not, which throws his credibility out the window.

The heart of the case isnt anti trust, its a bad faith negotiation. Kroenke bought the team with the sole intention of moving to LA the first chance he could. The NFL was well aware of this and is is well documented in the discovery. Kroenke and the NFL continued to "negotiate" with the city about a new stadium and city spent several million designing a new stadium to meet everything the team and league desired. In the end it was all meaningless because the team and league knew all along the team wasnt staying in STL regardless of what the city did.

This wasnt an issue of the league not enforcing the rules to avoid anti trust. Its an issue of the league and the team working together to lie to the city to make it appear they were following the rules when in reality the outcome was predetermined.

If the team and league said from the beginning they were leaving STL when the lease was up there would be no legal issues, however they did the exact opposite.

 

[sh724]

I have a feeling the NFL will try to settle this out of court simply to keep the NFL's finances private.

Is it possible that the NFL will offer St. Louis another team via expansion or more likely relocation? (Jacksonville?

Interesting that you mention Jacksonville as that team actually plays into all of this...

The current owner of the Jags is from the STL area and wanted to buy the Rams when the team went up for sale. Kroenke was already a minority owner of the team and his ownership agreement said that if the team was ever for sale he had the right to match any accepted offer. When Khan (Jags owner) made an offer it was accepted and Kroenke matched which started this whole chain of events

The league then allowed Khan to buy the Jags as a consolation prize.

 

[mouser]

The actual claims in the filing are for over $1B, I do not see the city settling for less than 10% of that especially when they have won just about every hearing so far.

Goodell is on record stating that the relocation rules are 100% binding, which is part of the cities evidence against the league. He then said under oath that they are not, which throws his credibility out the window.

The heart of the case isnt anti trust, its a bad faith negotiation. Kroenke bought the team with the sole intention of moving to LA the first chance he could. The NFL was well aware of this and is is well documented in the discovery. Kroenke and the NFL continued to "negotiate" with the city about a new stadium and city spent several million designing a new stadium to meet everything the team and league desired. In the end it was all meaningless because the team and league knew all along the team wasnt staying in STL regardless of what the city did.

This wasnt an issue of the league not enforcing the rules to avoid anti trust. Its an issue of the league and the team working together to lie to the city to make it appear they were following the rules when in reality the outcome was predetermined.

If the team and league said from the beginning they were leaving STL when the lease was up there would be no legal issues, however they did the exact opposite.

Even if the city wins, what is the legal and financial liability for such "bad faith negotiating"? The city recouping the millions they spent on developing a new stadium proposal, certainly. City recouping their legal costs in the lawsuit, possibly. Were the lease or any other legal contracts with the city breached?

I remain skeptical the potential damages the city can get is even 10% of the requested $1B. Hence why I think it will eventually be settled for a much lesser amount.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-rams-relocation-case-with-an-expansion-team/

 

[sh724]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-rams-relocation-case-with-an-expansion-team/

I do not think a promise for a team at some future point, as mentioned in the article, is going to move the needle at all for the city. A promise has zero legal standing and the NFL could easily never follow through. Even if a team is offered there are several other issues like who owns the team. Would the league allow the city itself to own the team? If not its not a free team to the city its a free team to whatever person the NFL handpicks to give it to. The primary issue is what "allowed" the Rams to move, the lack of a stadium. The NFL saying we will give you a team *IF* you pay for a new stadium is not going to fly.

If the options for the city are a free team owned by a random person after the city builds a stadium or to go to the jury the city is likely not going to settle. If there are punitive damages awarded as mentioned in the article the city is going to be far better off getting money now(ish) then getting hypothetical future tax revenue for whatever period the team may exist.

 

[GoldenSeal]

I'd demand the Rams to be returned to the STL and placed under local ownership. If they won't do that, sue them into the ground. Take nothing less.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I'd demand the Rams to be returned to the STL and placed under local ownership. If they won't do that, sue them into the ground. Take nothing less.

Never happening but that would be hysterical.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I do not think a promise for a team at some future point, as mentioned in the article, is going to move the needle at all for the city. A promise has zero legal standing and the NFL could easily never follow through. Even if a team is offered there are several other issues like who owns the team. Would the league allow the city itself to own the team? If not its not a free team to the city its a free team to whatever person the NFL handpicks to give it to. The primary issue is what "allowed" the Rams to move, the lack of a stadium. The NFL saying we will give you a team *IF* you pay for a new stadium is not going to fly.

If the options for the city are a free team owned by a random person after the city builds a stadium or to go to the jury the city is likely not going to settle. If there are punitive damages awarded as mentioned in the article the city is going to be far better off getting money now(ish) then getting hypothetical future tax revenue for whatever period the team may exist.

I do not believe that a public entity like a city can own a nfl team anymore the Green-Bay ownership structure was grandfathered in.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Never happening but that would be hysterical.

I wouldn't think so either but in the NFL's mind, if someone other than them is paying, they'd probably do it over getting hammered over this and they must know that serious money's going to come out of them otherwise. They might do it as a way to totally limit their liability. I'm with you, it would be funny af but it's strangely more possible than it would seem...

 

[GoldenSeal]

I do not believe that a public entity like a city can own a nfl team anymore the Green-Bay ownership structure was grandfathered in.

They did make changes to the rules in 2018 so I wouldn't be surprised if you could. I doubt it BUT...:

NFL owners vote to allow cross-ownership in cities with football teams

 

[sh724]

I do not believe that a public entity like a city can own a nfl team anymore the Green-Bay ownership structure was grandfathered in.

They can always make exceptions. Per NFL rules Kroenke should not have been able to buy the Rams in the first place but they let him do it. If the NFL followed their own relocation rules the lawsuit would not exist.

I do not think the city owning the team is a good idea but the city is going to want something of value and not a hand picked billionaire getting a free team

 

[sh724]

Sources: Kroenke irks NFL owners with fees pivot

NFL lawyer tells the owners that Kroenke is trying to get out the indemnification agreement which requires him to pay all legal fees associated with the Rams relocation to LA from STL. Some teams have legal bills north of $10MM.

Some owners said they only voted to approve the relocation because of the indemnity and without it the relo would not have happened. Jerry Jones is the only owner that is vocally supporting Kroenke.

Kroenke has had discussions about settling. Jones says the settlement amount would be billions of dollars. Though an ESPN source says discussions were less than $1B. NFL lawyer said the settlement amount would be more than the net worth of some people in the room.

 

[Butch 19]

Sources: Kroenke irks NFL owners with fees pivot

NFL lawyer tells the owners that Kroenke is trying to get out the indemnification agreement which requires him to pay all legal fees associated with the Rams relocation to LA from STL. Some teams have legal bills north of $10MM.

Some owners said they only voted to approve the relocation because of the indemnity and without it the relo would not have happened. Jerry Jones is the only owner that is vocally supporting Kroenke.

Kroenke has had discussions about settling. Jones says the settlement amount would be billions of dollars. Though an ESPN source says discussions were less than $1B. NFL lawyer said the settlement amount would be more than the net worth of some people in the room.

the most important words in the post above are: the Rams relocation to LA from STL

Kroenke saved Rams fans from 20 more years hell from the evil Georgia. L.A. should pay this bill - if it in fact exists

 

[sh724]

the most important words in the post above are: the Rams relocation to LA from STL

Kroenke saved Rams fans from 20 more years hell from the evil Georgia. L.A. should pay this bill - if it in fact exists

Georgia died which is why Kroenke was able to buy the team.

Not sure what you mean by "if it in fact exist" as the bills very much do exist and Kroenke is trying to get out of paying them. That is literally the entire point of the article.

Why should the government (city of LA) pay for something a billionaire signed a legally binding agreement to pay?

 

[sh724]

Rams owner threatens NFL over St. Louis lawsuit and the league could be out billions if he follows through

Kroenke tried to settle for $100MM was turned down (obviosuly). His people think he would be able to settle in the $500MM - $750MM range.

His current strategy is to get the rest of the owners to equally split whatever the final amount ends up being. If they dont agree to some form of a split, Kroenke is threatening to settle on his own behalf and letting the other owners deal with the lawsuit without his involvement.

It is an interesting ploy to get what he wants, either the other owners agree to split his costs of the other owners are forced to go to court without him being involved. Of course there is still the indemnification agreement that the other owners believe is iron clad and that Kroenke would have to pay everything regardless of if Kroenke's name is on the lawsuit.

At this point you'd have to think Kroenke is quickly becoming hated by the other owners. He is already hated by most Premier League fans, everyone in STL, a lot of people in Denver, the list continues to grow.

 

[mouser]

Mod: Merged the two different threads discussing St Louis, Kronke and the NFL. Title updated.

 

[LadyStanley]

As NFL's billion-dollar mediation with St. Louis begins, team owners could wage civil war

Rams owner Stan Kroenke reportedly wants to share the financial burden of any judgement or settlement in the lawsuit against his team's relocation. If the othe...


If the league owners leave him dangling, there may be lawsuits and counter suits to rival the 1995 sponsorship lawsuits. Or they might present a united front and share the pain.

Arbitration/moderation starts today.

 

[DaBadGuy7]

 

[LadyStanley]

Rams, NFL and St. Louis reach $790M settlement in relocation lawsuit

The Rams, NFL and St. Louis have reached a settlement of $790 million in the relocation lawsuit, but it doesn't include an expansion team

Yahoo Sports story on settlement

 

[BrokenFace]

This settlement makes me wonder what the NFL was so afraid of that they were willing to settle for almost $800 million. Were they afraid of how high the number could go if it went to court? Or was there fear of what discovery might bring up?