St. John's IceCaps Future ?

[Tommy Hawk]

Until Quebecor has a team that whole situation is wishful thinking. They thought they had a team a couple of other times and were left without.

 

[RC51]

The habs ahl team will be at the new Laval arena. This the habs prospects will have to understand how their world will change.
Not way way out in Newfoundland but right next to the HABS BRASS and ALL the Habs fanatic fans. Take a night off and WOW are you going to hear about it from the fans and then all over the TV with Antichambre and the TVA sport guys. I am sure all the hab ahl team games will be on TV somewhere on the dial. Yes the players can become famous FAST but boy does that knife CUT BOTH WAYS.

 

[Cynicaps]

I don't know if the ahl has an interest in keeping St Johns in the league. Yes their attendance is great, but the travel to get there and back is pretty tough and expensive for visiting teams. Utica is there this weekend. 5.5 hour bus ride to Toronto, the fly to St Johns.. Idk where other teams fly out of. Does St Johns reimburse teams some of the travel costs??

IIRC the New England teams save probably Bridgeport bus(ed) it to Logan and flew Boston-Halifax-St. John's while Albany (and Adirondack until last season) just drove up I-87/A15 to Montreal and flew from there. The Pennsylvania teams I would think would drive to Philadelphia and fly from there via Toronto, Bridgeport via one of the NYC-area airports.

 

[jason2020]

I'm local like yourself and to be honest it doesn't look good with the shift towards AHL affiliates moving closer and closer to their parent clubs. Heck an entire division was set-up in cities that could care less about hockey just so the AHL team was a stones throw away from the parent club.

Kinda sad as the atmosphere down at Mile One on a saturday night has to be amongst the closest a player can get to the NHL playing in the AHL, at least it was the times I was there.

If you rule out the Western teams, who would move into St. John's if the Habs leave?

Ottawa maybe? The Islanders? Like you said Quebec if they get a team might be the best option.

You do know there is 0% chance Ottawa moves to Quebec City.

 

[Guardian17]

I really hope St. John's gets another team.

 

[IceCapsHabs]

Now that Quebec is officially not getting an NHL team anytime in the near future. What options are there for St. John's after Montreal leaves QMJHL ? ECHL ?

 

[wildcat48]

It will be very interesting to see what the next move will be for the IceCaps because I believe that Quebec putting their AHL affiliate in St. John's was very much assumed by Danny Williams when he agreed to sign a deal with Montreal knowing they were going to leave for Laval in only two years.

I don't see a path currently for St. John's to remain in the AHL. With Portland, Manchester and Worcester in the ECHL I think it might make sense for the IceCaps to explore the ECHL as an option.

 

[McDrailers]

It will be very interesting to see what the next move will be for the IceCaps because I believe that Quebec putting their AHL affiliate in St. John's was very much assumed by Danny Williams when he agreed to sign a deal with Montreal knowing they were going to leave for Laval in only two years.

I don't see a path currently for St. John's to remain in the AHL. With Portland, Manchester and Worcester in the ECHL I think it might make sense for the IceCaps to explore the ECHL as an option.

Highly doubt St.John's goes into ECHL. I fully believe it's AHL or bust. We've had the QMJHL and people just didn't go. People want to see the "next big thing" with the prospects. Games against the Marlies are sold out. When players like Jordan Subban/Malcom come to town people are excited and interested. John Scott was a HUGE draw after he was sent down. ECHL just doesn't have the same sparkle. This will be the last year for the Sin Jawns Habs. With how the finances in NL are going, I just don't see Danny spending the cash to bring in an organization that will bleed money.

 

[BruinDust]

You do know there is 0% chance Ottawa moves to Quebec City.

Where did I say anything about the Ottawa Senators moving to Quebec City?

 

[BruinDust]

Highly doubt St.John's goes into ECHL. I fully believe it's AHL or bust. We've had the QMJHL and people just didn't go. People want to see the "next big thing" with the prospects. Games against the Marlies are sold out. When players like Jordan Subban/Malcom come to town people are excited and interested. John Scott was a HUGE draw after he was sent down. ECHL just doesn't have the same sparkle. This will be the last year for the Sin Jawns Habs. With how the finances in NL are going, I just don't see Danny spending the cash to bring in an organization that will bleed money.

The QMJHL is the best bet.

Now the Fog Devils experiment didn't work out. But once Derm Dobbin won the franchise over St. John's S&E (who operate the building), St. John's S&E was not going to do Derm Dobbin any favors in terms of renegotiating lease agreements, etc. to ensure the franchise didn't bleed money in the initial years.

Junior Hockey is cyclical for most franchises (London may be the exception). The Fog Devils got to Year 3 of a 4 year cycle, never being a legit contender for a Memorial Cup which they might of been in year 4, never having a young star prospect as a drawing card. They really didn't have a chance to gain a solid footing in the community. Combine that with the petty jealously and politics between Dobbin and St. John's S&E, and it wasn't going to work.

Would it work again? Maybe. The other problem is St. John's perceives itself as an "AHL town" and any lesser hockey is of little interest. Even Senior Hockey which is a decent draw in parts of NL has no real interest in the St. John's metro region.

QMJHL is a better bet than ECHL, QMJHL has a least a small chance of success with the right owner (i.e. St. John's S&E) as they operate the building, and if given a chance for on-ice success to build a fan-base. I wouldn't invest money in it but it could work.

The ECHL I don't see drawing in St. John's at all. It would be a complete bust IMO. Just a waste of money. And I'm not knocking the ECHL, but I don't see it working in this particular location, even if the quality of hockey is quite good.

 

[McDrailers]

The QMJHL is the best bet.

Now the Fog Devils experiment didn't work out. But once Derm Dobbin won the franchise over St. John's S&E (who operate the building), St. John's S&E was not going to do Derm Dobbin any favors in terms of renegotiating lease agreements, etc. to ensure the franchise didn't bleed money in the initial years.

Junior Hockey is cyclical for most franchises (London may be the exception). The Fog Devils got to Year 3 of a 4 year cycle, never being a legit contender for a Memorial Cup which they might of been in year 4, never having a young star prospect as a drawing card. They really didn't have a chance to gain a solid footing in the community. Combine that with the petty jealously and politics between Dobbin and St. John's S&E, and it wasn't going to work.

Would it work again? Maybe. The other problem is St. John's perceives itself as an "AHL town" and any lesser hockey is of little interest. Even Senior Hockey which is a decent draw in parts of NL has no real interest in the St. John's metro region.

QMJHL is a better bet than ECHL, QMJHL has a least a small chance of success with the right owner (i.e. St. John's S&E) as they operate the building, and if given a chance for on-ice success to build a fan-base. I wouldn't invest money in it but it could work.

The ECHL I don't see drawing in St. John's at all. It would be a complete bust IMO. Just a waste of money. And I'm not knocking the ECHL, but I don't see it working in this particular location, even if the quality of hockey is quite good.

My biggest fear is Jack Lee getting ousted from HNL (Hockey Canada is currently involved in an investigation against him) to then run the team. Worst case scenario.

Also the SR League in NL is dead. Looking like Corner Brook is done. Major dipps in attendance with the other three central league. Not to mention Jacks BRILLANT idea to have west play east in a highly entertaining final..... (Grandfalls won each game on average score or 8-1/9-1.) Sr hockey is dead in NL.

Maybe the Q would work again. If nothing else we get to see local talent like Luke Adam again. But, I just don't see Q teams dishing the funds out to fly to town for a game or two?

 

[IceCapsHabs]

Article in local paper.

Junior hockey works elsewhere… why not here?

Nobody asked me, but …
With the puck set to drop in Las Vegas in 2017-18, look for Reno, Nev. to be the yet-to-be-named NHL club’s American Hockey League affiliate. That certainly follows the trend of NHL teams keeping their minor league partner nearby …

Before Vegas was introduced, the NHL still had its awards show in Sin City. Why? Don’t you think the league should have moved it around to its member cities? ... Been to three NHL drafts and outside the first eight to 10 picks, and maybe an announcement of a trade or two, they’re the most God-awful, boring events in sports ...

So, Quebec is out of the mix for an NHL expansion club, meaning that’s another possibility out the window for St. John’s in terms of an AHL partner. The funny thing is, St. John’s may be the only city in Canada actively seeking another AHL team. It’s not like Toronto and Manitoba — the latter after the Jets, Part II arrived — were clamoring for the American league. Rather, everywhere else in Canada, save for the seven NHL cities, junior hockey is king. Tier II in small towns, and major junior in larger cities. I still believe junior could work in this city — it works across the country — given the right ownership and management. If it’s run professionally like the Halifax Mooseheads and London Knights, or close to it, the game will thrive. But there will have to be an education of the junior game, so as to avoid nitwit comments like the one years ago that compared the QMJHL to high school hockey ...

Full article http://www.thetelegram.com/Sports/2...ockey-works-elsewhere…-why-not-here?/1

 

[trouty]

All accounts i hear is Danny Williams is out, so any new arrangement would not involve him. Not confirmed but i hear hes tired of dealing with SJSE he wanted to put mary browns in Mile One, but city shot it down and Icecaps lost them as a major sponcer.

AS for Q. The Fog Devils were supported good for junior hockey, they averaged more then Sea Dogs, the issue was travel, and the flight company they used closed and lost a load of money. Marketing was non existant.

Would q work here, i highly dought it. I went from AHL to QMJHL and yes u get use to the pace slower, but going back to AHL its night and day.

The big issue why q wont work is cause they will charge the same price for Junior as they are for AHL, and i wont pay 1250 bucks for QMJHL. Why do i assume cause Fog Devil tickets were about the same as Baby Leaf tickets, and if they try and charge near that, the team will flop.

 

[IceCapsHabs]

This is the first I heard of them trying to put Mary Browns in Mile One. Why would the city not allow that ? It would of done great. I wouldn't be surprised if he is out. The city has been terrible to deal with and he gets ton of backlash for the subsidy and all that mess.

The city would miss hockey, but It would be mostly the fans fault. I thought having Montreal's farm team would inscrease attendance. It didn't really seem to do much.

 

[trouty]

The reason we had the Coleman cup as apposed to Mary's cup in preseason was because mary browns stopped it's major sponsorship and Coleman moved in. All cause the city stopped them from selling food at Mile One. Why cause city is greedy and takes the consession money as part of lease. Habs farm team is failing for same reason leafs farm team drew bad, cause the fan bases can't view it as St John's but as toronto or montreal so when we got 1 of their farm teams we isolate half the fans who refuse to go. Reason Jets worked I'd cause habs and leaf fans went and did not care for Jets players. For the record people like to praise the Baby Leafs but they drew 3500 most nights even when Mile One was new.Infact in first yr in Mile One sold out only 7 times

 

[Cacciaguida]

I don't expect junior hockey to work in St Johns.

 

[IceCapsHabs]

No firm answers for Q questions

So, on that note, we can inform you that Quebec Major Junior Hockey League commissioner Gilles Courteau acknowledges speaking briefly with Glenn Stanford, the current COO of the St. John’s IceCaps, about future hockey for Mile One Centre when the IceCaps are done. We can also report Courteau notes that a) the league has no plans for expansion, and b) there are no current QMJHL teams for sale, or looking to relocate.

This upcoming 2016-17 hockey season may well be the last for the IceCaps, and the American Hockey League for St. John’s.

The IceCaps and the Canadiens have an option for a third year on their minor league partnership, a clause put on place to cover the Canadiens if their new home currently under construction in Laval — Place Bell — isn’t completed for 2017-18.

By all accounts, it will be ready.

“Construction,†says Valerie Sauve from the City of Laval, “is on schedule, and on budget (for a September, 2017 opening).â€

So where does this leave St. John’s? If you’re talking AHL, on the outside looking in.

There simply aren’t a lot of AHL teams willing to partner with this city, despite the rock solid front office, fan base, rink and reputation St. John’s has within the league.

These days, NHL clubs are only concerned with having their minor league operations in their backyard, everything else be damned.

So, what are other options? A couple of former AHL cities — specifically Adirondack, Manchester, Worcester and Portland — have or will be joining the ECHL.

Given the turnover of rosters on that league — the Brampton Beast had 70 different players appear in at least one game last season — getting players in and out of Newfoundland would cost a fortune.

And I’m not even certain local hockey fans would embrace hockey’s Tier II of minor pro leagues.

Which brings us back to the QMJHL, of which St. John’s was a member for three seasons, beginning in 2005-06, before the Fog Devils franchise was promptly sold by owner Derm Dobbin after its third year.

Courteau may be correct in his declaration nothing is currently available in his league, but what about a year from now?

We know the Acadie-Bathurst Titan — the Siberia of the QMJHL — routinely play before paltry crowds of 1,100-1,200 in northern New Brunswick.

Owned by a group of 25-plus investors, the Titan can’t be making money. Would they be willing to sell if a cheque for $3 million-plus — the going rate for a QMJHL team these days — was offered?

Meanwhile, in Gatineau, the immediate future of one of the league’s most stories franchises (the team used to be known as the Hull Olympiques) beyond 2016-17 is unknown.

That’s because the Olympiques’ rink (Robert-Guertin Centre), built in 1952, will be meeting the wrecking ball.

Problem is, the team and the City of Gatineau have to yet to come to an agreement on a new rink.

The thinking is, according to one source, the Olympiques could be moved to another city (hello, St. John’s) and when an arena is built in Gatineau, the league will simply award a franchise for that city.

All speculation, of course, is filled with a whole lot of ifs and maybes.

Funny, but weren’t we down this same road 11 or 12 years ago?

Full article here:
http://www.thetelegram.com/Sports/2016-07-01/article-4576262/No-firm-answers-for-Q-questions/1

 

[BruinDust]

The reason we had the Coleman cup as apposed to Mary's cup in preseason was because mary browns stopped it's major sponsorship and Coleman moved in. All cause the city stopped them from selling food at Mile One. Why cause city is greedy and takes the consession money as part of lease. Habs farm team is failing for same reason leafs farm team drew bad, cause the fan bases can't view it as St John's but as toronto or montreal so when we got 1 of their farm teams we isolate half the fans who refuse to go. Reason Jets worked I'd cause habs and leaf fans went and did not care for Jets players. For the record people like to praise the Baby Leafs but they drew 3500 most nights even when Mile One was new.Infact in first yr in Mile One sold out only 7 times

I think you have a valid point.

As a Bruins fan now living in St. John's, I was more likely to wish the IceCaps on-ice success as the Jets farm team than the Habs. I'm not sure how many Boston (of which there are many of in NL) and Toronto fans can honestly cheer for the farm team of the hated Habs. Certainly there are many who don't care and don't think this way, but there are some out there who has the same mind-set I do.

 

[BruinDust]

My biggest fear is Jack Lee getting ousted from HNL (Hockey Canada is currently involved in an investigation against him) to then run the team. Worst case scenario.

Also the SR League in NL is dead. Looking like Corner Brook is done. Major dipps in attendance with the other three central league. Not to mention Jacks BRILLANT idea to have west play east in a highly entertaining final..... (Grandfalls won each game on average score or 8-1/9-1.) Sr hockey is dead in NL.

Maybe the Q would work again. If nothing else we get to see local talent like Luke Adam again. But, I just don't see Q teams dishing the funds out to fly to town for a game or two?

Lee should resign due to his conflict of interest running Blizzard Hockey. Minor/amateur hockey in NL has always been filled with petty politics and self-interest. Hopefully if the Q came back to St. John's, Lee would have no part of it.

And I agree Senior Hockey is on it's last legs, but interest in CB, GFW, Gander and Clarenville was always significantly higher than in the metro region, CBS maybe being the exception.

Senior Hockey needs to find a way to reduce costs in a big manner to remain financially viable. Not to sound like a neanderthal, but banning fighting didn't help fan interest. But getting guys who have jobs to go to the next day to go out and throw their body around, lay out and block shots, and throw punches at each other now with the awareness of head injuries and concussions, that style of hockey isn't realistic anymore at the semi-pro level of NL Senior Hockey.

And the playoff format needs a complete overhaul if they ever want the Herder to have relevance again in NL. The current format is costly and lopsided.

Unless STSE steps up and buys a franchise so it removes this conflict between the building operator and team ownership, it's simply too hard to make a profit paying to fly teams in and out to play the St. John's QMJHL team. And that's a tough sell to St. John's taxpayers who are already calling for cutbacks in city spending and a weakened local economy.

I predict Mile One will be without an anchor tenant in a year or two. Sad because when it's full and rocking it's a great building.

 

[McDrailers]

Lee should resign due to his conflict of interest running Blizzard Hockey. Minor/amateur hockey in NL has always been filled with petty politics and self-interest. Hopefully if the Q came back to St. John's, Lee would have no part of it.

And I agree Senior Hockey is on it's last legs, but interest in CB, GFW, Gander and Clarenville was always significantly higher than in the metro region, CBS maybe being the exception.

Senior Hockey needs to find a way to reduce costs in a big manner to remain financially viable. Not to sound like a neanderthal, but banning fighting didn't help fan interest. But getting guys who have jobs to go to the next day to go out and throw their body around, lay out and block shots, and throw punches at each other now with the awareness of head injuries and concussions, that style of hockey isn't realistic anymore at the semi-pro level of NL Senior Hockey.

And the playoff format needs a complete overhaul if they ever want the Herder to have relevance again in NL. The current format is costly and lopsided.

Unless STSE steps up and buys a franchise so it removes this conflict between the building operator and team ownership, it's simply too hard to make a profit paying to fly teams in and out to play the St. John's QMJHL team. And that's a tough sell to St. John's taxpayers who are already calling for cutbacks in city spending and a weakened local economy.

I predict Mile One will be without an anchor tenant in a year or two. Sad because when it's full and rocking it's a great building.

I don't say this often on these boards but I agree fully with every point you made. Take Evan Fitzpatrick for instance. Drafted in the 2nd round but left newfoundland due to the hockey NL politics.

I agree with QMJHL not working. It's AHL or bust and right now its looking like it'll be bust. Unfortunate because the atmosphere/experience for the price is top notch. I'll for one miss Mile One and the Caps

 

[Cacciaguida]

I can see the ECHL maybe working, but the AHL has a better chance.

Alaska has a team. Just sayin'

 

[Captain Crash]

I can see the ECHL maybe working, but the AHL has a better chance.

Alaska has a team. Just sayin'

True, a proverbial island for the league. And the Victoria Salmon Kings were successful in the ECHL as well, only departing to make way for juniors. By contrast St John's might actually be more manageable. So it could work.

 

[Captain Crash]

Announcement coming?

 

[BruinDust]

Announcement coming?

Not surprising. Sad, but expected.

Might be the end of AHL hockey in St. John's.

 

[IceCapsHabs]

Seems a strange time to be announcing this. We knew it was coming. But I figured once the season starts or end of this season. Maybe they are announcing it now because St. John's has its own announcment to make