St. John's IceCaps Future ?

[IceCapsHabs]

With only 1 year remaining with their affliation with Montreal. What do you think the future holds for AHL hockey in St. John's, NL ?

Quebec's affilation if they get a new NHL team in 2017-18 ?

or an existing NHL team relocating his farm team to St. John's ?

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[BruinDust]

With only 1 year remaining with their affliation with Montreal. What do you think the future holds for AHL hockey in St. John's, NL ?

Quebec's affilation if they get a new NHL team in 2017-18 ?

or an existing NHL team relocating his farm team to St. John's ?

I'm local like yourself and to be honest it doesn't look good with the shift towards AHL affiliates moving closer and closer to their parent clubs. Heck an entire division was set-up in cities that could care less about hockey just so the AHL team was a stones throw away from the parent club.

Kinda sad as the atmosphere down at Mile One on a saturday night has to be amongst the closest a player can get to the NHL playing in the AHL, at least it was the times I was there.

If you rule out the Western teams, who would move into St. John's if the Habs leave?

Ottawa maybe? The Islanders? Like you said Quebec if they get a team might be the best option.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I guess it all really depends on expansion/relocation. That being said, even if Quebec City gets a team, that's still quite a distance when Portland or a new market elsewhere in Quebec or the Maritimes could be an option.

It'll be an uphill climb regardless. Not only is St. John's isolated from the NHL, but also from the AHL. Even with a local partner willing to eat a lot of the costs, there are seemingly lots of potential markets that make for easier travel in the U.S. that could be open.

 

[royals119]

an entire division was set-up in cities that could care less about hockey just so the AHL team was a stones throw away from the parent club.

San Diego and Ontario are second and third in average attendance, and San Jose clearly cares about hockey - they have an NHL team in the same building and are still drawing over 4000 for the AHL.

The NHL parent teams probably do value location over fan support, but the cities they chose have significant minor league hockey history, and on the whole they are drawing well.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Montreal

Unfortunately I don't see a population base in Canada that would actually support an AHL team. The cities in Canada that might...have junior clubs and just can't see two being profitable.

My guess is Montreal would be best. Try to build up the AHL/NHL connection. Fans that can't afford the NHL tickets, especially with kids....maybe a AHL would be well attended.

Would have to be located in Montreal. If it's too far in the surrounding towns of Montreal you just won't attract that suburban base, especially folks that need public transit to get to the arena.

Considerable benefits to the hockey clubs by been so close.

 

[Lunatik]

Heck an entire division was set-up in cities that could care less about hockey just so the AHL team was a stones throw away from the parent club.

Every one of those teams has better attendance numbers in those markets that couldn't care less about hockey than they did in their previous markets. Ontario and San Diego are 2nd and 3rd respectively in attendance in the entire league.

I know Mile One isn't a huge arena (7k IIRC), but maybe the IceCaps and their fans that care so much about hockey should have better attendance than Iowa, San Antonio and Charlotte before you start throwing stones.

 

[Lunatik]

Unfortunately I don't see a population base in Canada that would actually support an AHL team. The cities in Canada that might...have junior clubs and just can't see two being profitable.

My guess is Montreal would be best. Try to build up the AHL/NHL connection. Fans that can't afford the NHL tickets, especially with kids....maybe a AHL would be well attended.

Would have to be located in Montreal. If it's too far in the surrounding towns of Montreal you just won't attract that suburban base, especially folks that need public transit to get to the arena.

Considerable benefits to the hockey clubs by been so close.

IIRC the new rink in Laval is expected to host the new AHL affiliate of the Habs. IIRC the new arena is less than an hour away using transit )and about half an hour driving) from the Bell Centre

 

[go comets]

Would a Qmjhl team work in St Johns like Hamilton did switching from the AHL to the OHL?

 

[offkilter]

Would a Qmjhl team work in St Johns like Hamilton did switching from the AHL to the OHL?

They had one with the Fog Devils from 05-08. The team really wasn't well supported and the owners lost a lot of money before the team was sold to someone in Montreal.

That being said who knows if a new Qmjhl team with a different ownership group might be successful or not. They could
be better off with an ECHL franchise given the preference for pro over junior hockey and with the way things are shaking out in the AHL.

 

[wildcat48]

It will be Quebec City….

Quebec City will get an NHL team through expansion or relocation by the 2017-18 season.

Montreal will move its team to Laval and Quebec will put its AHL affiliation in St. John’s.

There are too many reasons for it not to happen.

Danny Williams has the political clout along with the financial wherewithal to make it happen. I’m sure when the deal with Montreal was done that Williams and PK Péladeau had already talked at some level about what an affiliation would entail. Williams’ cable enterprise fits perfectly with Quebecor and the rest of the telecommunication/media industry.

Travel isn’t going to be big issue for Quebec with air travel and the fact that St. John’s spend half its season on the road anyway. They’re only on the island for 38 games and likely less if the AHL reduces the schedule in the future.

As for other locations… Portland is locked into a long-term affiliation with Florida. They are only one year in the current four-year deal and they’re already talking about extending it two more seasons. I don’t see another arena in Eastern Canada that would be able to handle the AHL that doesn’t already have a QMJHL franchise.

I’m pretty confident by next season we’ll be hearing about QC placing its prospect in St. John’s.

 

[Captain Crash]

As for other locations… Portland is locked into a long-term affiliation with Florida. They are only one year in the current four-year deal and they’re already talking about extending it two more seasons. I don’t see another arena in Eastern Canada that would be able to handle the AHL that doesn’t already have a QMJHL franchise.

I’m pretty confident by next season we’ll be hearing about QC placing its prospect in St. John’s.

Quebecor is already on record that they would likely place their affiliate in Trois Rivieres once a new arena is completed there.

 

[axecrew]

It will be Quebec City….

Quebec City will get an NHL team through expansion or relocation by the 2017-18 season.

Montreal will move its team to Laval and Quebec will put its AHL affiliation in St. John’s.

There are too many reasons for it not to happen.

Danny Williams has the political clout along with the financial wherewithal to make it happen. I’m sure when the deal with Montreal was done that Williams and PK Péladeau had already talked at some level about what an affiliation would entail. Williams’ cable enterprise fits perfectly with Quebecor and the rest of the telecommunication/media industry.

Travel isn’t going to be big issue for Quebec with air travel and the fact that St. John’s spend half its season on the road anyway. They’re only on the island for 38 games and likely less if the AHL reduces the schedule in the future.

As for other locations… Portland is locked into a long-term affiliation with Florida. They are only one year in the current four-year deal and they’re already talking about extending it two more seasons. I don’t see another arena in Eastern Canada that would be able to handle the AHL that doesn’t already have a QMJHL franchise.

I’m pretty confident by next season we’ll be hearing about QC placing its prospect in St. John’s.

Wildcat....I actually spoke to Dave Andrews about this about a month ago and asked him pointblank if MTL would be moving to Laval in the season or so and he said that was the plan....direct quote then asked him what about St. Johns and his response was we have to find them a team when I asked about quebec, he said that it was possible. As you know with your dealings with him he doesn't give up info very freely.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

ECHL. Really nothing is ideal. They are kinda on a ****ing island there.

 

[BruinDust]

San Diego and Ontario are second and third in average attendance, and San Jose clearly cares about hockey - they have an NHL team in the same building and are still drawing over 4000 for the AHL.

The NHL parent teams probably do value location over fan support, but the cities they chose have significant minor league hockey history, and on the whole they are drawing well.

Come back and see what those numbers are like once the luster of their shiny new toy wears off.

And I agree San Diego does have a good history with minor hockey.

 

[SemireliableSource]

Heck an entire division was set-up in cities that could care less about hockey just so the AHL team was a stones throw away from the parent club.

You're right. Those markets could care less. But they don't. They're supporting hockey.

San Diego, a market without hockey for years, is currently second in average attendance with 8,577.
Ontario is third with 8,545 (up from 7,802 in the ECHL last year).
Bakersfield is averaging 5,111 (up from 4,799 in the ECHL last year).
Stockton is averaging 4,545, just slightly down from last year's 4,621.
San Jose is just a tax write-off special yet still averaging 4,334 tickets out per game.

Stockton had their ups and downs in the ECHL but Bakersfield, Ontario, and San Diego have successful histories of hockey in their cities.

 

[Captain Crash]

Come back and see what those numbers are like once the luster of their shiny new toy wears off.

New toy? For years most of those markets were pulling attendance numbers in the ECHL that were still higher than many AHL markets last year.

Keep trying.

 

[wildcat48]

Quebecor is already on record that they would likely place their affiliate in Trois Rivieres once a new arena is completed there.

That's not how I've read it. There's discussion of an arena being built but nothing other than conjecture was implied about the AHL going to Trois Rivieres. In fact, Quebecor denied the AHL going to Trois-Rivieres.

 

[wildcat48]

Wildcat....I actually spoke to Dave Andrews about this about a month ago and asked him pointblank if MTL would be moving to Laval in the season or so and he said that was the plan....direct quote then asked him what about St. Johns and his response was we have to find them a team when I asked about quebec, he said that it was possible. As you know with your dealings with him he doesn't give up info very freely.

True... he doesn't give up info on the record very freely. He can open up behind the scenes as I'm sure you're aware. I've had some frank discussions with him about expansion and the future of the AHL. It's safe to say he's not happy with how everything has played out. That said, he sees a positive future for the AHL.

 

[axecrew]

True... he doesn't give up info on the record very freely. He can open up behind the scenes as I'm sure you're aware. I've had some frank discussions with him about expansion and the future of the AHL. It's safe to say he's not happy with how everything has played out. That said, he sees a positive future for the AHL.

Yeah he sure hasn't been real thrilled with being put over a barrel by the 5 west coast teams and being force fed what they wanted. That being said I feel pretty positive that he's going to put his foot down a little in the next few years to balance out the schedule with the west coast and get everyone on the same page. I know when I mentioned the whole montreal moving from st john's he said that "We'll have to find them a new partner."...I took that to mean that he's probably already been told what's going on behind the scenes in the NHL and has a plan in place as we speak.

 

[bobmoor]

Every one of those teams has better attendance numbers in those markets that couldn't care less about hockey than they did in their previous markets. Ontario and San Diego are 2nd and 3rd respectively in attendance in the entire league.

I know Mile One isn't a huge arena (7k IIRC), but maybe the IceCaps and their fans that care so much about hockey should have better attendance than Iowa, San Antonio and Charlotte before you start throwing stones.

Supported their team better? You mean like a 120 game sell out streak? They might not have a team in the future and the Ice Caps are terrible and they're still managing 5,700. Mile One only has a capacity of 6, 287 so 5,700 is pretty good considering.

 

[Jackets Woodchuck]

Unfortunately I don't see a population base in Canada that would actually support an AHL team. The cities in Canada that might...have junior clubs and just can't see two being profitable.

My guess is Montreal would be best. Try to build up the AHL/NHL connection. Fans that can't afford the NHL tickets, especially with kids....maybe a AHL would be well attended.

Would have to be located in Montreal. If it's too far in the surrounding towns of Montreal you just won't attract that suburban base, especially folks that need public transit to get to the arena.

Considerable benefits to the hockey clubs by been so close.

Isn't another issue with the AHL in Canada that the whole idea of pro developmental hockey (as opposed to using amateur senior leagues or players getting one shot at the NHL out of juniors) is not particularly popular there?

 

[McDrailers]

Isn't another issue with the AHL in Canada that the whole idea of pro developmental hockey (as opposed to using amateur senior leagues or players getting one shot at the NHL out of juniors) is not particularly popular there?

We have one of these and it's worse attended than your local book club.

AHL hockey unfortunately looks like a dying breed in NL.

 

[go comets]

I don't know if the ahl has an interest in keeping St Johns in the league. Yes their attendance is great, but the travel to get there and back is pretty tough and expensive for visiting teams. Utica is there this weekend. 5.5 hour bus ride to Toronto, the fly to St Johns.. Idk where other teams fly out of. Does St Johns reimburse teams some of the travel costs??

 

[wildcat48]

Yes... St. John's pays $27,500 for every trip.

 

[Rob]

Do you think there would be an appetite to try the Q again? Travel definitely wouldn't be as expensive.