St. John's IceCaps Future ?

[Tommy Hawk]

Now that Quebec is officially not getting an NHL team anytime in the near future. What options are there for St. John's after Montreal leaves QMJHL ? ECHL ?

I do not think that your statement about Quebec's timing is true. I doubt the NHL will have too many seasons with an odd number of teams.

Seems a strange time to be announcing this. We knew it was coming. But I figured once the season starts or end of this season. Maybe they are announcing it now because St. John's has its own announcement to make

I think they are announcing because Ottawa announced or vice versa. The announcement being made a year early is not unusual.

 

[go comets]

is there any way st johns could support an nhl team?? they sell out close to 7,000 seats every ahl game, just wondering what the population base is there....

 

[jason2020]

is there any way st johns could support an nhl team?? they sell out close to 7,000 seats every ahl game, just wondering what the population base is there....

The population is 100,000 but the bigger issue is there is not a ton or even good amount of high paying jobs the avg income is something like 40,000 so no a Nhl team would not work.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canadiens-move-ahl-affiliate-new-arena-nearby-laval/

Official announcement of moving St Johns to Laval starting in 2017-18.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

is there any way st johns could support an nhl team?? they sell out close to 7,000 seats every ahl game, just wondering what the population base is there....

Definitely not. The support per capita might be the best in all of hockey but the city and surrounding area just doesn't have to population or the economy to support it.

I think the only two options for St. John's are becoming the long term home of the Quebec City NHL farm whenever that happens or QMJHL.

Taking on another AHL team for a year or two will be the end of it. It either needs to be long term or nothing. Fans are sick of growing attachments to certain teams and players and then having to support something completely new the next year. It's hard to put your heart into that.

QMJHL failed before but I think it's what makes the most sense. The problem is that Newfies are die hards but they also need their teams to perform. The Fog Devils sucked every year in St. John's. I think all it would take is one playoff run or a star player on their roster (A Nathan Mackinnon, a PL Dubois or a T Meier) and a QMJHL team to St. John's could become with the Mooseheads are to Halifax. Plus the travel costs associated aren't as big a gap as they were in the mid 00's.

 

[McDrailers]

Definitely not. The support per capita might be the best in all of hockey but the city and surrounding area just doesn't have to population or the economy to support it.

I think the only two options for St. John's are becoming the long term home of the Quebec City NHL farm whenever that happens or QMJHL.

Taking on another AHL team for a year or two will be the end of it. It either needs to be long term or nothing. Fans are sick of growing attachments to certain teams and players and then having to support something completely new the next year. It's hard to put your heart into that.

QMJHL failed before but I think it's what makes the most sense. The problem is that Newfies are die hards but they also need their teams to perform. The Fog Devils sucked every year in St. John's. I think all it would take is one playoff run or a star player on their roster (A Nathan Mackinnon, a PL Dubois or a T Meier) and a QMJHL team to St. John's could become with the Mooseheads are to Halifax. Plus the travel costs associated aren't as big a gap as they were in the mid 00's.

You telling me T.J Brennan wasn't a star . This though. The Q team had a bunch of Newfie guys which is cool in a sense. But nobody back then knew that Jake Allen would be a household name.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

You telling me T.J Brennan wasn't a star . This though. The Q team had a bunch of Newfie guys which is cool in a sense. But nobody back then knew that Jake Allen would be a household name.

Yeah exactly. Kempe was a treat with his skating but he wasn't enough to bring a crowd. I hated every start that Jake Allen got lol.

The stadium used to fill when Esposito and Radulov came with the Remparts. If a St. John's junior team were competitive and had some nationally recognized top prospects they would win the hearts of Newfoundlanders.

 

[NuxFan09]

I'm a bit confused here. The Has aren't literally moving the IceCaps franchise to Laval because they don't own it, right? They're just starting a brand new AHL franchise that they own outright. Correct?

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I'm a bit confused here. The Has aren't literally moving the IceCaps franchise to Laval because they don't own it, right? They're just starting a brand new AHL franchise that they own outright. Correct?

They are moving it because they own it. It used to be the Hamilton Bulldogs. The Ice Caps franchise owned by the Canucks was moved to Winnipeg and became Moose, not squirrel.

 

[BruinDust]

I'm a bit confused here. The Has aren't literally moving the IceCaps franchise to Laval because they don't own it, right? They're just starting a brand new AHL franchise that they own outright. Correct?

Habs don't own the trademarks to the St. John's IceCaps, businessman Danny Williams owns all trademarks (name, logo, etc.) to the franchise. Thus he could purchase an ECHL team and relocate it to St. John's and still call it the IceCaps. He's indicated his intention to pursue another franchise once the Habs move their prospects to Laval, whether it be AHL, ECHL, or QMJHL. All likely-hood is if he does acquire another franchise in any of these league's, they will be called the St. John's IceCaps.

As for the Habs new set-up, I would assume they (Habs/Geoff Molson) have 100% ownership of the new franchise, but I'm not certain.

 

[NuxFan09]

Habs don't own the trademarks to the St. John's IceCaps, businessman Danny Williams owns all trademarks (name, logo, etc.) to the franchise. Thus he could purchase an ECHL team and relocate it to St. John's and still call it the IceCaps. He's indicated his intention to pursue another franchise once the Habs move their prospects to Laval, whether it be AHL, ECHL, or QMJHL. All likely-hood is if he does acquire another franchise in any of these league's, they will be called the St. John's IceCaps.

As for the Habs new set-up, I would assume they (Habs/Geoff Molson) have 100% ownership of the new franchise, but I'm not certain.

Okay, so in other words the Habs own the team, just not the team name and trademarks, as you say. I always thought the IceCaps organization was entirely independent from the Habs.

 

[BruinDust]

Okay, so in other words the Habs own the team, just not the team name and trademarks, as you say. I always thought the IceCaps organization was entirely independent from the Habs.

And they could be. I'm unfamiliar with the entire structure other than the trademarks/names. I believe some IceCaps employees are employed directly by the IceCaps, and some are employees of Habs/Molson.

 

[Captain Crash]

And they could be. I'm unfamiliar with the entire structure other than the trademarks/names. I believe some IceCaps employees are employed directly by the IceCaps, and some are employees of Habs/Molson.

They were owned by True North, the parent company of the Winnipeg Jets. In 2015, that franchise returned to Manitoba. At that same time, the Montreal Canadiens purchased the AHL Hamilton Bulldogs and used it to replace the departing franchise in St. John's (with the Bulldogs being replaced by an OHL team). Danny Williams never owned either franchise, but rather he managed them on behalf of the parent clubs and owns nothing more than the IceCaps brand. The current iteration of the St. John's IceCaps is still 100% owned by the Montreal Canadiens and can be moved at their discretion.

 

[Nightsquad]

I feel for St. John's and the fan base, they have earned their AHL worthiness for sure. The movements over the years between Winnipeg and now Montreal, not to mention their old Toronto affiliation days back in the 1990s. Not so sure the fans would be as loyal though to an American based NHL affiliation but hey if they are able to pursue an affiliate to keep the AHL on The Rock then good for them. However should they not want to go the QMJHL route and cannot secure an AHL team one might want to keep an eye on the ECHL Brampton Beast. They could be ripe for purchase and relocation. The ECHL would be amazing with a true coast to coast footprint much more so then the AHL.

Not sure what the airport, airline situation up that way is like but it would almost seem to me that if direct west coast air travel is available it would be just as easy to move Vancouver players from St. John's to Vancouver then it is to and from Utica. Utica doesn't have any real air service other then regional flights. The nearest small to medium airports from Utica are located in Albany or Syracuse NY. I can't imagine the nightmare for Vancouver moving players in and out of Utica. Even if players got direct flights to Vancouver from NYC or Toronto your still talking about a four hours drive either way to get players to the airport. Heck if Ottawa is moving their AHL club out of Binghamton in favor of Belleville to be close to home imagine how bad and costly it has to be for Vancouver, yikes....

 

[go comets]

I feel for St. John's and the fan base, they have earned their AHL worthiness for sure. The movements over the years between Winnipeg and now Montreal, not to mention their old Toronto affiliation days back in the 1990s. Not so sure the fans would be as loyal though to an American based NHL affiliation but hey if they are able to pursue an affiliate to keep the AHL on The Rock then good for them. However should they not want to go the QMJHL route and cannot secure an AHL team one might want to keep an eye on the ECHL Brampton Beast. They could be ripe for purchase and relocation. The ECHL would be amazing with a true coast to coast footprint much more so then the AHL.

Not sure what the airport, airline situation up that way is like but it would almost seem to me that if direct west coast air travel is available it would be just as easy to move Vancouver players from St. John's to Vancouver then it is to and from Utica. Utica doesn't have any real air service other then regional flights. The nearest small to medium airports from Utica are located in Albany or Syracuse NY. I can't imagine the nightmare for Vancouver moving players in and out of Utica. Even if players got direct flights to Vancouver from NYC or Toronto your still talking about a four hours drive either way to get players to the airport. Heck if Ottawa is moving their AHL club out of Binghamton in favor of Belleville to be close to home imagine how bad and costly it has to be for Vancouver, yikes....

Vancouver has stated several times that they have never had an issue getting a player called up. Teams have been doing it this way for years untill the west coast expansion. The Canucks prefer to have their farm team close to other teams to reduce travel and increase practice and off ice training.

 

[McDrailers]

I feel for St. John's and the fan base, they have earned their AHL worthiness for sure. The movements over the years between Winnipeg and now Montreal, not to mention their old Toronto affiliation days back in the 1990s. Not so sure the fans would be as loyal though to an American based NHL affiliation but hey if they are able to pursue an affiliate to keep the AHL on The Rock then good for them. However should they not want to go the QMJHL route and cannot secure an AHL team one might want to keep an eye on the ECHL Brampton Beast. They could be ripe for purchase and relocation. The ECHL would be amazing with a true coast to coast footprint much more so then the AHL.

Not sure what the airport, airline situation up that way is like but it would almost seem to me that if direct west coast air travel is available it would be just as easy to move Vancouver players from St. John's to Vancouver then it is to and from Utica. Utica doesn't have any real air service other then regional flights. The nearest small to medium airports from Utica are located in Albany or Syracuse NY. I can't imagine the nightmare for Vancouver moving players in and out of Utica. Even if players got direct flights to Vancouver from NYC or Toronto your still talking about a four hours drive either way to get players to the airport. Heck if Ottawa is moving their AHL club out of Binghamton in favor of Belleville to be close to home imagine how bad and costly it has to be for Vancouver, yikes....

St.John's is an international airports. IIRC daily flights to Newark. Toronto, Montreal etc. To me the outstanding issues are the prices to fly into Newfoundland,and the weather. The airport is built is the most mind boggling location in St.John's.The fog out there is insane. Plus the winter months are hell for air travel.

 

[Lunatik]

Vancouver has stated several times that they have never had an issue getting a player called up. Teams have been doing it this way for years untill the west coast expansion. The Canucks prefer to have their farm team close to other teams to reduce travel and increase practice and off ice training.

It depends on the NHL team too. For example the Flames had call-up issues when they were in Glen Falls, due to a lack of direct flights to Calgary. When a p layer was recalled they would drive them to Montreal for a direct flight in some instances. I would assume there are more direct flights to Vancouver than Calgary from the east coast.