Confirmed with Link: St. Cloud State D Ethan Prow (8-30-38, 37 GP) signing 2-yr ELC, reporting to WBS

[clefty]

A lot of teams would give him the NHL opportunity, and the money will be the same wherever he goes. With Toronto it's more because his brother and dad are both in the organization.

Thing with Vesey for me is that I expected him to have a much bigger year than he did. Based on last season and being a senior, I thought he'd have like 60+ points.

 

[Ogrezilla]

A lot of teams would give him the NHL opportunity, and the money will be the same wherever he goes. With Toronto it's more because his brother and dad are both in the organization.

Thing with Vesey for me is that I expected him to have a much bigger year than he did. Based on last season and being a senior, I thought he'd have like 60-70 points.

oh gotcha. That makes sense.

 

[gdsmack267]

Sounds like Vesey has his mind set on Toronto.

Boston*

 

[Asuna]

Vesey can't sign till August, so he has plenty of time to change his mind.

 

[HandshakeLine]

So, 6'3" and a possible 48-pound weight swing?

Maybe ice cream is his only friend when he's down.

Or maybe he's trying to get into a different weight class at the gym.

Maybe we'll never know.

Nah, it's pretty easy to see that Wikipedia is wrong here. Like it often is.

I'd go with the official numbers on the Sparta page I posted, they're the most recent.

 

[Shady Machine]

If your goal is to get into the league to get your NHL salary started, I guess that makes sense.

And if Toronto hired your dad and drafted your brother, maybe uh there was some foul play involved.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

A lot of teams would give him the NHL opportunity, and the money will be the same wherever he goes. With Toronto it's more because his brother and dad are both in the organization.

Thing with Vesey for me is that I expected him to have a much bigger year than he did. Based on last season and being a senior, I thought he'd have like 60+ points.

He's a free prospect, which is always nice (see my reaction to Prow)...but Vesey...I mean...you look at his game, his numbers, where he played, his age...he's not going to be the piece that puts anyone over.

We see this all the time on HFBoards, though. Feels like yesterday that everyone was freaking out over the possibility of signing Christian Hanson...fast forward 7 years and he's been playing in something called the Black Diamond Hockey League, which has teams in ski resort towns in the west (go Missoula Desperados!)...for the creatively named Sun Valley Suns.

Vesey is probably going to do much better professionally than Hanson did, but I still don't see him as anything more than a tweener in the NHL. It sucks for the Preds because a tweener in the third round is a 'hit' on the pick, and they lost any chance they had to get value for him when he changed his mind...but ultimately I don't really see him as a game-breaker at all.

 

[Riptide]

"Losing" our 3rd? Who gives a **** about a 3rd when we got a potential better player than what a 3rd usually turns into? Did i miss something here?

Seemed like Schultz is already gone reading you.

An interesting tidbit. Our last 3 3rd round picks are:

Jake Guentzel (#77, 2013)
Oskar Sundqvist (#81, 2012)
Matt Murray (#83, 2012)

I'd probably take all of them over Justin Schultz. I'm not disappointed we acquired Schultz, and he's played very well here. It'll be well worth that 3rd if we can sign him to something reasonable. But if we do not sign him, he's probably someone we could have done without. Not the end of the world, as it was only a 3rd - but we've done fairly well with our 3rd rd picks over the last few years.

As for Prow, right on. We have a real lack of quality RD in the system, so getting someone like him only helps - even if long term he doesn't pan out.

 

[Shady Machine]

An interesting tidbit. Our last 3 3rd round picks are:

Jake Guentzel (#77, 2013)
Oskar Sundqvist (#81, 2012)
Matt Murray (#83, 2012)

I'd probably take all of them over Justin Schultz. I'm not disappointed we acquired Schultz, and he's played very well here. It'll be well worth that 3rd if we can sign him to something reasonable. But if we do not sign him, he's probably someone we could have done without. Not the end of the world, as it was only a 3rd - but we've done fairly well with our 3rd rd picks over the last few years.

As for Prow, right on. We have a real lack of quality RD in the system, so getting someone like him only helps - even if long term he doesn't pan out.

Unless Schultz is a moron, he will re-sign here. He went from highly sought after college free agent and future Norris contender to worst dman in the league status in Edmonton. The Pens took a chance on him and are helping to rebuild his game. It's in his best interest (both from a hockey and future earnings standpoint) to sign a cheap 1 or 2 year prove it deal.

He can come out of that deal and sign a Niskanen contract or he can sign a marginally better deal somewhere else this summer with the potential to have it blow up in his face again. Obviously there's some gray area in between, but those are the two extremes. If he chooses to go to free agency, that's certainly his right but I think it would be misguided.

 

[chethejet]

schultz is a 5 or 6 as a defense man. His offensive skill set has to be coached and developed. Pens have 1.2 form Lovejoy to use and of course his cap hit right now is artificial for next year. He will not get a qualifying offer so his best decision is to stay and play and develop. He is 26 next year and he has time to continue his progress.

 

[Coastal Kev]

An interesting tidbit. Our last 3 3rd round picks are:

Jake Guentzel (#77, 2013)
Oskar Sundqvist (#81, 2012)
Matt Murray (#83, 2012)

I'd probably take all of them over Justin Schultz. I'm not disappointed we acquired Schultz, and he's played very well here. It'll be well worth that 3rd if we can sign him to something reasonable. But if we do not sign him, he's probably someone we could have done without. Not the end of the world, as it was only a 3rd - but we've done fairly well with our 3rd rd picks over the last few years.

As for Prow, right on. We have a real lack of quality RD in the system, so getting someone like him only helps - even if long term he doesn't pan out.

This is where the Pens need to learn asset management. At worst, you sign Schultz then trade him for a 2nd. That is how you do asset management.

 

[Jacob]

schultz is a 5 or 6 as a defense man. His offensive skill set has to be coached and developed. Pens have 1.2 form Lovejoy to use and of course his cap hit right now is artificial for next year. He will not get a qualifying offer so his best decision is to stay and play and develop. He is 26 next year and he has time to continue his progress.

He'll go to whoever offers the most money.

 

[#1GuinFan]

He'll go to whoever offers the most money.

He's done it once so may very well do it again. But in that breath, there has been indications that the Pens were a fav team of his, and hopefully he sees his improved play/opportunity and the direction of the team in the latter half of the season as good reason to stay here. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if it goes either way. He's putting up 0.5 ppg again, so that success may go to his head.

 

[mgd525]

He's done it once so may very well do it again. But in that breath, there has been indications that the Pens were a fav team of his, and hopefully he sees his improved play/opportunity and the direction of the team in the latter half of the season as good reason to stay here. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if it goes either way. He's putting up 0.5 ppg again, so that success may go to his head.

Where do those indications come from ? Honest question been a few years since I followed prospects much.

 

[Shady Machine]

He'll go to whoever offers the most money.

Why would he do that? He went from highly sought after free agent to healthy scratch on the Edmonton Oilers. Let's say it's the Leafs who throw a ton of money at him. Do you think he's stupid enough to go there? He could be out of the league in 2 years if he does something like that.

 

[gdsmack267]

Why would he do that? He went from highly sought after free agent to healthy scratch on the Edmonton Oilers. Let's say it's the Leafs who throw a ton of money at him. Do you think he's stupid enough to go there? He could be out of the league in 2 years if he does something like that.

Its ELC, every team will offer the exact amount. Nashville already offered him the most possible and that was with incentive bonuses

 

[Jacob]

Why would he do that? He went from highly sought after free agent to healthy scratch on the Edmonton Oilers. Let's say it's the Leafs who throw a ton of money at him. Do you think he's stupid enough to go there? He could be out of the league in 2 years if he does something like that.

Why would he take the most money? Isn't that what the majority of us do in our own lives? Pro athletes are told that their next contract could be their last and to get as much guaranteed money as possible. Pro athletes are also supremely confident in their abilities to a fault. If Toronto offers him crazy money, Schultz will genuinely believe it's because he's worth the amount and he'll sign and play in Toronto.

 

[Shady Machine]

Why would he take the most money? Isn't that what the majority of us do in our own lives? Pro athletes are told that their next contract could be their last and to get as much guaranteed money as possible. Pro athletes are also supremely confident in their abilities to a fault. If Toronto offers him crazy money, Schultz will genuinely believe it's because he's worth the amount and he'll sign and play in Toronto.

Because he has the potential to make a LOT more on his next contract coming out of Pittsburgh than he will signing a marginally higher deal this summer. Nobody is giving Schultz more than his qualifying offer IMO. So he has an option to take 3-4MM a year from someone else or a short 1-2 year deal around Cole money with the Penguins and then sign a bigger deal after.

 

[Pens1566]

Its ELC, every team will offer the exact amount. Nashville already offered him the most possible and that was with incentive bonuses

They're talking Schultz, not Vesey.

 

[Jacob]

Because he has the potential to make a LOT more on his next contract coming out of Pittsburgh than he will signing a marginally higher deal this summer. Nobody is giving Schultz more than his qualifying offer IMO. So he has an option to take 3-4MM a year from someone else or a short 1-2 year deal around Cole money with the Penguins and then sign a bigger deal after.

Has anyone ever done that before?

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I guess Ehrhoff, but he had the benefit of a buyout cushion.

 

[Shady Machine]

Has anyone ever done that before?

Not been stupid? Yes I assume so.

But yes RFA's have not been signed to their QO's and then sign for less with the same team before. Generally their QO isn't as high as Schultz and the player was with the team for longer than 3 months, but it happens.

It comes down to options for Schultz. I'm sure he can make money elsewhere, but I don't know if it's as much as you might think. 3 months of solid 3rd pairing hockey with nice offensive production doesn't outweigh 50 games of terrible, in the doghouse hockey. Not many GM's are going to sign him to a high cap hit long term deal. If there is one or two that do, they probably aren't a very good organization and that poses a big risk to Schultz' future.

Maybe he will have a big list of options, but I tend to doubt it. I see his situation as a bridge type of RFA deal that many players sign. He just has to decide if he likes Pittsburgh enough to do it here or wants to take a risk to do that somewhere else.

Just out of curiosity, what type of deal do you think would be available to him?

 

[Riptide]

He'll go to whoever offers the most money.

He might. But after Edmonton I think that this is probably premature. Especially when he can probably get 1.5-2m out of Rutherford, and at best he might get 2.5-3m out of someone else. So the difference in money isn't going to be all that much - especially since most will be offering him a pretty short contract. Honestly, I'd be surprised if he went elsewhere.

He's done it once so may very well do it again. But in that breath, there has been indications that the Pens were a fav team of his, and hopefully he sees his improved play/opportunity and the direction of the team in the latter half of the season as good reason to stay here. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if it goes either way. He's putting up 0.5 ppg again, so that success may go to his head.

How did he "do it once"?! He signed an ELC when he went to Edmonton (the exact same ELC that every team was offering him). So I'm not sure how he chased money there.

At the risk of insulting Schultz, I asked him if he had been surprised by his solid play with the Penguins.

He laughed.

“No, not surprised,†he said. “I always knew I had this in me. It was a rough patch in my career. Things didn’t go well in Edmonton. I don’t know why. They just didn’t. This fresh start has been huge for me. I feel like I fit in here.â€

<snip>

“I’ve felt so good since the very day I got here,†Schultz said.

<snip>

Is Gonchar making a difference?

“Ha!†Schultz laughed. “He’s been huge. Absolutely huge for me, in every way. He shows me video. And he gives me these little tips, things he used to do on the power play, tips for getting your shot through from the blue line. Little stuff like that. A lot of it, honestly, is stuff that I never used to think about. But now I find that, when I listen to him, I’m learning so much every day. Heâ€s making me better.â€

 

[Shady Machine]

Great stuff Rip. Thanks for sharing. That doesn't sound like a guy that would chase 1MM more when he can stay here and keep developing and get a big contract after. Who knows though.

 

[Riptide]

Why would he take the most money? Isn't that what the majority of us do in our own lives? Pro athletes are told that their next contract could be their last and to get as much guaranteed money as possible. Pro athletes are also supremely confident in their abilities to a fault. If Toronto offers him crazy money, Schultz will genuinely believe it's because he's worth the amount and he'll sign and play in Toronto.

If PIT was offering him 1 or 2 yrs at 1.5m, and someone else was offering him 3x3m, yeah odds are he's gone. But seeing how I doubt anyone is going to offer him that, the differences are going to be much smaller. So if it's 1x1.75m vs 1x2m, I do not see him leaving over 250k.

Do many of us jump for the money? Sure. But Schultz went from one of the top D prospects to meh over the last 4 years. He isn't getting any sort of massive contract this summer. However IF he can redefine himself and grow as a player, perhaps 1-3 years from now he can earn that massive contract he wants. But for that to happen, he needs to put himself in a very good position. PIT is one of the places he can do that. There's others, but I doubt they'd be offering much more money then what PIT will offer this summer.