Confirmed with Link: St. Cloud State D Ethan Prow (8-30-38, 37 GP) signing 2-yr ELC, reporting to WBS

shureshot66

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Aug 2, 2005
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How did he "do it once"?! He signed an ELC when he went to Edmonton (the exact same ELC that every team was offering him). So I'm not sure how he chased money there.

Not chase the money, but wait it out to test the open market and see what's all out there.

It would be nice to see him sign maybe a 1-year deal before July, but it wouldn't be a surprise if he goes to UFA (not going to get that qualifying offer) because of his improved play.
 

Riptide

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Dec 29, 2011
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Has anyone ever done that before?

Turned down more money elsewhere? Lots of players have. Honestly, I think it happens a lot more then fans think. These players are not stupid. They know that the situation and fit is extremely important to their success and their happiness. So unless someone offers stupid money that they just can't turn down, I think you'll see them place a lot more emphases on that then on the money.
 

Riptide

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Dec 29, 2011
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Not chase the money, but wait it out to test the open market and see what's all out there.

It would be nice to see him sign maybe a 1-year deal before July, but it wouldn't be a surprise if he goes to UFA (not going to get that qualifying offer) because of his improved play.

I've already said that I doubt he signs here until after July 1st. He'll think about PITs offer & and probably be disappointed with it (again likely something in the 1.5-2m range), and go to free agency due to PIT not qualifying him to see what his options are. After July 1st is when I think he'll see some of the other offers out there (not all that different from PITs) and circle back to PIT and go "you know what..." the slight difference in money isn't worth the risk - this is a good situation."
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Just off the top of my head, Clarkson (Edmonton offered more), Suter (numerous teams offered more), Parise (numerous teams offered more), Ehrhoff (numerous teams offered more) and Orpik (Colorado offered more) turned down more money to sign with their new teams in FA.
 

Your Boy Troy

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Sep 19, 2013
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Saw that Brian Murray signed Macoy Erkamps to an ELC not too long ago. That would have been a nice signing as well. Putting up almost a point-per-game as a defenceman (overage season). Captain of the Brandon Wheat Kings; plays an abrasive style. A right-handed defenseman. Wanted him to be invited to their Rookie Tournament. Nonetheless, this is a good signing. No risk.
 

Jacob

as seen on TV
Feb 27, 2002
49,504
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Not been stupid? Yes I assume so.

But yes RFA's have not been signed to their QO's and then sign for less with the same team before. Generally their QO isn't as high as Schultz and the player was with the team for longer than 3 months, but it happens.

It comes down to options for Schultz. I'm sure he can make money elsewhere, but I don't know if it's as much as you might think. 3 months of solid 3rd pairing hockey with nice offensive production doesn't outweigh 50 games of terrible, in the doghouse hockey. Not many GM's are going to sign him to a high cap hit long term deal. If there is one or two that do, they probably aren't a very good organization and that poses a big risk to Schultz' future.

Maybe he will have a big list of options, but I tend to doubt it. I see his situation as a bridge type of RFA deal that many players sign. He just has to decide if he likes Pittsburgh enough to do it here or wants to take a risk to do that somewhere else.

Just out of curiosity, what type of deal do you think would be available to him?
Hard to tell. It just takes one, maybe two GMs to get a little trigger happy and throw some money at him. Hell, not even a GM, maybe an owner loves the guy and forces the GM's hand. Weird stuff can happen.

I think it largely depends also on how he plays in the post-season and how far the Penguins go as a team. But if he plays well, the deeper the Penguins go the longer of an audition the other 28 GMs get of him.

I could see him getting 2-3 years and $2 - $3.5 million in cap hit, depending on other factors.
Just off the top of my head, Clarkson (Edmonton offered more), Suter (numerous teams offered more), Parise (numerous teams offered more), Ehrhoff (numerous teams offered more) and Orpik (Colorado offered more) turned down more money to sign with their new teams in FA.

You're probably right on all those examples, but in some cases I think it's over blown or exaggerated by the player themselves. For example, sometimes players seem to like to claim they took less money to sign somewhere when in reality they took less in exchange for something else, like a NMC, or maybe their cap hit is lower but the total contract was more than anyone else offered because of longer term, so technically more guaranteed money.
 

WayneSid9987

Registered User
Nov 24, 2009
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I don't think anyones gonna offer big bucks to Schultz.
He's not a top 4 D-Man and he's thriving in a very sheltered role right now. 14min a night. 60% O-zone starts.

A good example would be Ryan Ellis.
2.5M-3M is probably the most he'd get on the market.

So why not take a little less(1.8-2.1M or so) with some bonuses attached and stay in a good situation.

It's not a huge concern for me if he walks.
Cuz we have Pouliot and Prow behind him.

Personally, i think he'll do the Pens a solid.
He already got a bunch of dough he didn't deserve and the Pens did him a solid to get him out of Edmonton + he's probably learning alot from Gonch and likes the situation here.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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The negativity around Schultz here is absurd. I don't think the Pens will low ball him but they will try to keep him and I think it's worth a shot.
 

billybudd

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Feb 1, 2012
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Has anyone ever done that before?

Niskanen said he was leaning that way, initially. I think it was in a 30 thoughts column where Friedman said Niskanen was completely paranoid about going to a strange situation--any strange situation--given the polar opposite experiences he had in Pittsburgh and Dallas.

Then his bald buddy signed up to coach the Caps D and it leaked that we were considering Crawford for head coach. Crawford, if you'll remember, is the guy that nearly ruined Niskanen's career.
 
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Riptide

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Dec 29, 2011
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Yukon
I don't think anyones gonna offer big bucks to Schultz.
He's not a top 4 D-Man and he's thriving in a very sheltered role right now. 14min a night. 60% O-zone starts.

A good example would be Ryan Ellis.
2.5M-3M is probably the most he'd get on the market.

So why not take a little less(1.8-2.1M or so) with some bonuses attached and stay in a good situation.

It's not a huge concern for me if he walks.
Cuz we have Pouliot and Prow behind him.

Personally, i think he'll do the Pens a solid.
He already got a bunch of dough he didn't deserve and the Pens did him a solid to get him out of Edmonton + he's probably learning alot from Gonch and likes the situation here.

He's not eligible for bonuses. Only ELCs, +35 (on 1 yr contracts) and players who've missed "significant" time the previous season (who also sign a 1 yr contract) are allowed to receive bonuses.

But that said, I think we'll sign him (prob about 1.75m). But if for some reason we can't, then while that's unfortunate, it's not the end of the world.
 

Jacob

as seen on TV
Feb 27, 2002
49,504
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If Ian Cole can get 2+ million over 3 years as an RFA based on a couple months of solid play, I think we can expect Schultz to get more, especially if he reaches the open market.
 

Riptide

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Dec 29, 2011
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Yukon
If Ian Cole can get 2+ million over 3 years as an RFA based on a couple months of solid play, I think we can expect Schultz to get more, especially if he reaches the open market.

Maybe. But Cole was also seen as potentially "breaking" out after being under used in STL. Cole also never really made much before. The question people will legitimately have with Schultz is he really this good (or better) or is what was seen in EDM recently the real him? There's also the question of whether he's a 2nd pairing or 3rd pairing D. Right now we're really sheltering him. Again, he's getting 14 minutes a night (or less), and is getting a lot of starts in the offensive zone.

Could he get 2.5m? Absolutely. But I doubt he takes a 3+ yr deal right now (at least not for that). He might take a 2-2.5m 2 yr deal from us (or another contender). It's really going to be a question as to how good he thinks he is. Does he believe he can be a good top 4 offensive D? Because if he thinks that, then it's in his best interest to establish himself in that mold in the short term before looking to commit long term (and be paid as such). Schultz has earned ~9.5m over the last 4 years (minus escrow, plus bonuses). Not a ton by any means, but enough that in the short term, he likely has the ability to take a step back and re-***** things in order to see what's best for him and his career long term.

Again, do I think it's a guarantee that we sign him? No. In fact I suspect he either signs with us really early or that we wouldn't sign him until after July 1st, just to give him an option to see what's out there (should he want to). And if we don't sign him, it's not the end of the world. Rutherford just needs to have a firm price in mind if he does sign him. If he can't get something done within that range, then so be it.
 

terex

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
576
0
Some dumby is going to offer Schultz $3m+, probably over $3.5m. It's a pipe dream that he's going to sign for under $2m.
 

Waffle Fries

Registered User
Mar 7, 2013
18,086
2
I don't see why Schultz wouldn't stay here for cheap. He seemed to be a pretty big Penguins fan before he even got here and he seems to excel here (at least comparatively).
 

Waffle Fries

Registered User
Mar 7, 2013
18,086
2
But is the modest increase he may receive in pay worth taking the risk of going somewhere he might not fit?
 

mpp9

Registered User
Dec 5, 2010
32,616
5,074
I'd be keeping Schultz around to groom him to replace Daley by the end of next season. If they believe he can do that, I'd give him 2.5+ mil easily. Maybe give him a vote of confidence now, and you get more of a discount on his next contract.

I think expecting something less than Cole is unrealistic. Especially if he keeps putting up points in the postseason.

Having a potential Voynov, Vatanen, Barrie type player in the organization as a natural RHS RD to play behind #58 is too good to pass up. And it allows us to trade Pouliot to fill a hole.
 

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