OT: Stützle Tkatchuk Chabot Batherson Norris Sanderson - What Are Your Honest Thoughts About This Core?

[jbeck5]

They are kids. Ask me in 4-5 years.

When everyone except stutzle and Sanderson are over 30 years old? THEN we'll make the playoffs?

Perhaps you mean to say that stutzle and Sanderson can be part of a good core, but the rest of the older core pieces should be switched out?

Like why should we expect major improvements of guys like Chabot, Zub, norris, Tkachuk, batherson, etc from ages 25 to 30 to go from bottom of the league to top of the league?

I don't care about your time.

That is sunk cost fallacy. No reason to mess with the core now that they have good coaching and management behind them.

Surround them with some more depth and all will be well.

I don't care about your time.

That is sunk cost fallacy. No reason to mess with the core now that they have good coaching and management behind them.

Surround them with some more depth and all will be well.

The players care about time. In 5-6 years, half our core will be over the hill.

If you're saying ask me in 5-6 years about a bunch of 24-25-26-27 year olds, then just say "no. The core as is isn't good enough" because you shouldn't expect major improvements from anyone outside of the young guys like stutzle and Sanderson and Greig...but in combination with the decline of guys like Giroux which will offset some of the gains from the young guys.

Most of the core is in their prime years though, and they're struggling to get out of the basement for several years in a row now.

 

[Adrianopolous]

These boys suck

 

[Karterthadon]

This core is quite simply not good enough. Edmonton's first attempt with Hall/RNH/Yakupov wasn't good enough, same with Colorado with Duchesne, O'Reilly and Landeskog. Some of the core pieces need to be upgraded, there's lots of good here but not enough great/elite.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

I still believe in the core. No doubt this season has been a colossal disappointment but we've looked good on some nights and then garbage on others. I am hoping that with another year of maturity, we'll see this team take a leap forward next year.

Look at Vancouver; something clicked for them. They were bottom ten last year and now top five.

For whatever reason, the Sens just aren't executing. They're bumbling and fumbling, and can't get their stick on the puck when defending.

 

[SensontheRush]

This thing we just spent SEVEN years building... Let's just scrap it and rebuild for another SEVEN!!

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

I still believe in the core. No doubt this season has been a colossal disappointment but we've looked good on some nights and then garbage on others. I am hoping that with another year of maturity, we'll see this team take a leap forward next year.

Look at Vancouver; something clicked for them. They were bottom ten last year and now top five.

For whatever reason, the Sens just aren't executing. They're bumbling and fumbling, and can't get their stick on the puck when defending.

I don't know if it's the same. This Vancouver core (Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser, Miller) made the WCF in 19/20.

They showed that they could win, before taking a step back.

We haven't come close.

 

[NyQuil]

Trading core pieces always returns pennies on the dollar.

I don’t know if Ottawa can stomach another complete tear down so it’s about surgery as opposed to reincarnation.

 

[Agent Zub]

trading our core pieces returns pennies.

except for brady....

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Trading core pieces always returns pennies on the dollar.

I don’t know if Ottawa can stomach another complete tear down so it’s about surgery as opposed to reincarnation.

Most teams never do a complete teardown. We don't have to, but we certainly shouldn't be in love with anyone on the roster.

Could you trade Chychrun (or Chabot) for some young depth pieces and use the money you would have spent on him to better balance out the roster? Probably.

Could you move Norris if Pinto shows he can take the #2C spot and ride with Greig as the #3, while adding $8M of depth somewhere else? Potentially.

 

[SensFactor]

Need to surround these guys with more vets...sanderson is 21, stutzle 21, Greig 21..our key players are getting schooled by older teams

 

[NyQuil]

Most teams never do a complete teardown. We don't have to, but we certainly shouldn't be in love with anyone on the roster.

Could you trade Chychrun (or Chabot) for some young depth pieces and use the money you would have spent on him to better balance out the roster? Probably.

Could you move Norris if Pinto shows he can take the #2C spot and ride with Greig as the #3, while adding $8M of depth somewhere else? Potentially.

The hard part is that typically you want to deal core guys when they aren’t producing which means attaching sweeteners for other teams to take on their contracts, which can put you into a deeper hole if your drafting runs dry.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

The hard part is that typically you want to deal core guys when they aren’t producing which means attaching sweeteners for other teams to take on their contracts, which can put you into a deeper hole if your drafting runs dry.

Luckily a guy like Chychrun is producing and has a sweetheart contract for next year. Batherson, too, could be a good 1:1 change of scenery type trade candidate. What if the NYI sad we'll trade you Pulock for Batherson? We have Dobson at RD and need wingers and your RD suck?

Norris, certainly, would be tougher to move.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Need to build around Smejkal, Crookshank, and Grieg.
I was one of the biggest Norris supporters before he played a game for us and even I said his contract was going to be bad. Dude has a mega fluke year and won the Dorion lotto max.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Worth pointing out that a lot of what is being said about this core was also said about Vancouver's core before this season, and they sure are glad they didn't blow it up.

We need a Tochett in a bad way. Someone who can instill a strong defensive system with a commitment to backchecking and attentiveness.

Martin is obviously just a caretaker and I don't blame him for not righting the ship immediately after taking over for DJ, who's lack of accountability has set this franchise back in a big way.

If things look the same at the deadline next season, that's when you blow it up.

 

[Boud]

Worth pointing out that a lot of what is being said about this core was also said about Vancouver's core before this season, and they sure are glad they didn't blow it up.

We need a Tochett in a bad way. Someone who can instill a strong defensive system with a commitment to backchecking and attentiveness.

Martin is obviously just a caretaker and I don't blame him for not righting the ship immediately after taking over for DJ, who's lack of accountability has set this franchise back in a big way.

If things look the same at the deadline next season, that's when you blow it up.

Craig Berube is the guy this team needs.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Craig Berube is the guy this team needs.

Supposedly they've talked to Berube. That's a possibility

 

[Boud]

As soon as Joseph is back I would shake things up and give the most ice time to Joseph, Greig and Giroux.

Time to reward the players that actually give full effort and these are the only 3 players who have been giving steady play this season. Give these guys the most ice time, let the others earn their ice time with their good all around game.

The guys that can't get over the hill should be gone. Not cutting it at all.

I'd keep Tarasenko and Batherson together. Maybe with Pinto once he's back.

I'd swap Norris to the RW and play him with Tkachuk and Stutzle. Give them 13-16 minutes a night until they show that they can take additional responsibility.

 

[Micklebot]

Worth pointing out that a lot of what is being said about this core was also said about Vancouver's core before this season, and they sure are glad they didn't blow it up.

We need a Tochett in a bad way. Someone who can instill a strong defensive system with a commitment to backchecking and attentiveness.

Martin is obviously just a caretaker and I don't blame him for not righting the ship immediately after taking over for DJ, who's lack of accountability has set this franchise back in a big way.

If things look the same at the deadline next season, that's when you blow it up.

It's an interesting comparison, but van did shake things up a bit

Horvat, OEL, Schenn and Bear out, Lafferty, Hronek, Cole and Zadorov in. Not sure if that's an upgrade (probably not on paper)

We also don't have a Demko,

That said, aside from Horvat, I wouldn't call any of the guys shipped out core. I also don't think he was in any way part of the problem,

Tochett had Van playing at a 100 pts pace in their final 36 games last year, they didn't really need to shake up things beyond the coach change. Then again, we played at a 95 pts pace over the same period, under DJ.

Getting everyone to buy in goes a long way, idk if you can get that with an interim coach in a season that already looks like it's circling the drain tbh, Jacques seems to be working more on correcting bad habits than anything else. Maybe that will set the table for the next guy, be it Berube or otherwise.

 

[HF Reader]

It's an interesting comparison, but van did shake things up a bit

Horvat, OEL, Schenn and Bear out, Lafferty, Hronek, Cole and Zadorov in. Not sure if that's an upgrade (probably not on paper)

We also don't have a Demko,

That said, aside from Horvat, I wouldn't call any of the guys shipped out core. I also don't think he was in any way part of the problem,

Tochett had Van playing at a 100 pts pace in their final 36 games last year, they didn't really need to shake up things beyond the coach change. Then again, we played at a 95 pts pace over the same period, under DJ.

Getting everyone to buy in goes a long way, idk if you can get that with an interim coach in a season that already looks like it's circling the drain tbh, Jacques seems to be working more on correcting bad habits than anything else. Maybe that will set the table for the next guy, be it Berube or otherwise.

I agree with your last paragraph and would add that JM now is also evaluating who has the drive to play the way he believes they must play in order to win.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

As soon as Joseph is back I would shake things up and give the most ice time to Joseph, Greig and Giroux.

Time to reward the players that actually give full effort and these are the only 3 players who have been giving steady play this season. Give these guys the most ice time, let the others earn their ice time with their good all around game.

The guys that can't get over the hill should be gone. Not cutting it at all.

I'd keep Tarasenko and Batherson together. Maybe with Pinto once he's back.

I'd swap Norris to the RW and play him with Tkachuk and Stutzle. Give them 13-16 minutes a night until they show that they can take additional responsibility.

I'd personally start to showcase and shop Tarasenko. See what they can get for him as this season is done.

 

[branch]

I would look at trading anyone who isn't Stutzle/Tkachuk/Sanderson

 

[Crosside]

Trade Tkachuk now

 

[Micklebot]

I agree with your last paragraph and would add that JM now is also evaluating who has the drive to play the way he believes they must play in order to win.

What's interesting is in the 7 games Martin has been here, the underlying numbers have actually plummeted, dropping around 5% pts in each of the major categories at 5v5, though tbf, we've been playing teams that on average are pacing at 96 pts, so qoc is high. 3 clear playoff teams, three bubble teams and one bad team.

 

[lancepitlick]

I think they are a bunch of good players that are lacking a superduperstar unless Sanderson/Stutzle hit another level. I don't think they fit together very well as a group, which compounds things.

The main issue is passing/carrying the play. In the forwards you have some guys that are good around the net and when they have the puck near the net, but not many guys that are great passers, carrying the puck, or have good hockey IQ. They aren't good at forechecking either. It's like a whole forward group of Hoffman's and a more physical Dave Andyerchuck in Tkachuck.

The d-men on the other hand are decent at passing and carrying the puck, less so playing defense or being physical.

So soft defenseman that would be good based around a puck possession game and forwards who suck at puck possession (carrying or retrieving). The team can barely string together two passes in a row and can't play defense.

Personally I think a major shake up is in order with the likes of Chabot, Chychrun, Norris, Batherson, Tkachuck all the main candidates for getting shipped out. Even Stutzle if the return is right. None of them are "bad" but they don't fit together IMO.

 

[Karterthadon]

The idea is not to tear it all down and start over again. The team is bad, what happens with bad teams? They're stuck in the bottom of the standings and get high draft picks. Edmonton's rebuild floundered and they eventually landed Draisatl and McDavid soon after that. Same with Colorado, the Duchesne group sucked and they eventually landed Mackinnon and Makar.

I figure this is what will happen, this team will be mired in mediocrity until they get elite players that will take them to that next level.