OT: Stützle Tkatchuk Chabot Batherson Norris Sanderson - What Are Your Honest Thoughts About This Core?

[Crosside]

I remember Andlauer one of his interviews. He said Pierre give a first for Chychrun, at a position we were good. We need a rd I expect Chychrun move at the deadline

 

[dumbdick]

I was thinking about the avs today.

They put up a historically bad season in 2017 that landed them makar. They had mackinnon, landeskog, rantannen, duchene, O'reilly and johnson on that squad. They didnt make the playoffs in the three previous seasons.

All those guys had like 300 games under their belt at that time of that stinker season, and they really really sucked.

I think that's a positive comparable of a rebuild that took a while to put it together but took off after some growing pains.

So my question: how common is that?

If you look at teams with successful rebuilds, how long did it take them to find their stride?

How long until we know if we're seeing growing pains or a roster that isn't going to get there?

I believe in this extremely talented roster we've got. But what do the comparables tell us here?


Florida looks like another good example where they didnt start making the playoffs until their core hit abot 300+ games. Toronto is probably a counter example where they started winning immediately after matthews and marner made the team, but it was largely based on vets like kessel at the time.

I honestly think people need to just be more patient.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

I was thinking about the avs today.

They put up a historically bad season in 2017 that landed them makar. They had mackinnon, landeskog, rantannen, duchene, O'reilly and johnson on that squad. They didnt make the playoffs in the three previous seasons.

All those guys had like 300 games under their belt at that time of that stinker season, and they really really sucked.

I think that's a positive comparable of a rebuild that took a while to put it together but took off after some growing pains.

So my question: how common is that?

If you look at teams with successful rebuilds, how long did it take them to find their stride?

How long until we know if we're seeing growing pains or a roster that isn't going to get there?

I believe in this extremely talented roster we've got. But what do the comparables tell us here?

That Avalanche core of MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Duchene and O'Reilly had more success than this core has had, when they were the same age.

They made the playoffs in 13/14. MacKinnon was 18, Duchene was 22, Landeskog was 20 and O'Reilly was 22. Got to game 7 against Minnesota.

They missed the playoffs the next two years, but still had a combined record above .500.

They bottomed out that one year in 16/17, after Roy quit just before camp, but quickly recovered after that season. Drafting a generational defenseman then propelled them into being what they are now.

I don't know if it's a good comparison. We're looking more like the Hall-era Oilers, at this point.

 

[dumbdick]

That Avalanche core of MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Duchene and O'Reilly had more success than this core has had, when they were the same age.

They made the playoffs in 13/14. MacKinnon was 18, Duchene was 22, Landeskog was 20 and O'Reilly was 22. Got to game 7 against Minnesota.

They missed the playoffs the next two years, but still had a combined record above .500.

They bottomed out that one year in 16/17, after Roy quit just before camp, but quickly recovered after that season. Drafting a generational defenseman then propelled them into being what they are now.

I don't know if it's a good comparison. We're looking more like the Hall-era Oilers, at this point.

But what do you see as the sweet spot when we know if this core can do it or if we don't have enough "escape velocity" to get there?

300 games for the core players? Less? More?

 

[OmniSens]

The answer is "Elite, but young". Growing pains is a thing, especially in hockey.

 

[Tuna99]

Curtis Lazar has played +100 more NHL games then Thomas Chabot. makes no sense

 

[dumbdick]

That Avalanche core of MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Duchene and O'Reilly had more success than this core has had, when they were the same age.

They made the playoffs in 13/14. MacKinnon was 18, Duchene was 22, Landeskog was 20 and O'Reilly was 22. Got to game 7 against Minnesota.

They missed the playoffs the next two years, but still had a combined record above .500.

They bottomed out that one year in 16/17, after Roy quit just before camp, but quickly recovered after that season. Drafting a generational defenseman then propelled them into being what they are now.

I don't know if it's a good comparison. We're looking more like the Hall-era Oilers, at this point.

That oilers era is one of the worst examples of a rebuild failure. Our 3-4-5 picks of Tim, sandy and brady have already far eclipsed the 1-1-1-7 of yak, hall, Nuge and Nurse.

I don't think it's fair to compare any team to that mess.

 

[Micklebot]

Curtis Lazar has played +100 more NHL games then Thomas Chabot. makes no sense

He was drafted two years earlier and forwards tend to be ready quicker, he ended up being a regular a year after being drafted, Chabot took two. So he's had 3 extra years, and has been far more healthy. He's a perfectly fine 4th liner, it's not really that surprising

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

That oilers era is one of the worst examples of a rebuild failure. Our 3-4-5 picks of Tim, sandy and brady have already far eclipsed the 1-1-1-7 of yak, hall, Nuge and Nurse.

I don't think it's fair to compare any team to that mess.

In the 6 years between 10/11 - 15/16, the Oilers had a .415 pts%. 10/11 was the year Hall joined the team.

As of today, since 18/19, we have a .448 pts%. 18/19 was the year Tkachuk joined the team.

Yeah, the Oilers blew the Yakupov pick. But during our 6-year rebuild, we traded away 3 of our lottery picks and used one on Tyler Boucher.

Their rebuild was a disaster, but ours isn't looking too good. They started making substantial changes after year 6 seasons... so we'll see what happens in the summer here.

The Oilers were able to transition away from Hall/Eberle quickly because they had McDavid and Draisaitl join the team in 15/16. We won't have that ability, so we'll have to hold onto our core a bit longer. Hopefully, they can turn it around because reinforcements aren't really coming.

Although... maybe Celebrini...

 

[Adrianopolous]

Try to maintain a straight face and tell me that this core is legit.. Please.

Norris 8m?? Where
Chabot 8m?? How and why

 

[albator71]

Try to maintain a straight face and tell me that this core is legit.. Please.

Norris 8m?? Where
Chabot 8m?? How and why

I get what you're saying but when they signed everybody was happy, the same thing with Tkachuk, Stutzle and Sanderson, everyone was praising Dorion. It's always easy to criticize after but when those contracts were signed everyone was pretty excited.

 

[h2]

I get what you're saying but when they signed everybody was happy, the same thing with Tkachuk, Stutzle and Sanderson, everyone was praising Dorion. It's always easy to criticize after but when those contracts were signed everyone was pretty excited.

I liked all the contracts at the time, with the exception of Norris. That one never made sense.

 

[DJB]

If we are to make huge changes to the core I would move Norris and Chabot . Both are way overpaid and lack intensity.

 

[Adrianopolous]

I get what you're saying but when they signed everybody was happy, the same thing with Tkachuk, Stutzle and Sanderson, everyone was praising Dorion. It's always easy to criticize after but when those contracts were signed everyone was pretty excited.

I was not happy about Norris, and I've been exposing Chabot since 2020.

 

[JD1]

That Avalanche core of MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Duchene and O'Reilly had more success than this core has had, when they were the same age.

They made the playoffs in 13/14. MacKinnon was 18, Duchene was 22, Landeskog was 20 and O'Reilly was 22. Got to game 7 against Minnesota.

They missed the playoffs the next two years, but still had a combined record above .500.

They bottomed out that one year in 16/17, after Roy quit just before camp, but quickly recovered after that season. Drafting a generational defenseman then propelled them into being what they are now.

I don't know if it's a good comparison. We're looking more like the Hall-era Oilers, at this point.

The Hall era Oilers had multiple 1oa picks. We're not anything like that.

 

[Agent Zub]

The Hall era Oilers had multiple 1oa picks. We're not anything like that.

we have better players.

 

[Xspyrit]

All of Stutzle, Tkachuk, Giroux, Batherson, Norris, Chabot, Chychrun and Sanderson have proved long enough that they can be elite or high end players

Even some of the guys behind them have shown really good things like Joseph, Greig, Pinto and Zub (and even Brannstrom)

Even guys like Tarasenko and Kubalik are proven and they're not that old.

On paper the individuals are good but as a team it just doesn't work at all for all kind of reasons and it might be related mainly to not having been playing the right way for years. A new coaching staff can't fix that in a few weeks. There's also glaring weaknesses in depth and roster construction.

Conclusion : don't judge the core or any individuals based on their play as a team right now. Other GMs are ready to pounce any of these players at a discount if they are made available. Thank Alfie, Dorion is not there anymore to do more damage and I am hopeful that Staios is smart and will make the right moves. Not the time to panic